Sword Art Online and sexual assault as tension(spoilers for SAO II)

VanQ

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Oct 23, 2009
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It's a work of fiction. Sometimes bad things happen in works of fiction. Sometimes that bad stuff is sexual in nature. And sometimes it happens a lot. That's how fiction works. It can be anything. It didn't have to include attempted sexual assault. Nor did it have to not include sexual assault. It is not mandatory for you to read/watch it. If you don't like it drop it and move on with your life.

It's. god. damn.

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Izanagi009_v1legacy

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Drummodino said:
Izanagi009 said:
I really hate this series
That begs the question then, why continue watching it?

OT: I mostly agree with what [Kira Must Die] said.

[Kira Must Die said:
]I didn't have that problem with that scene. I thought it was genuinely creepy, especially if you consider that that guy was right next to her the whole time she was playing, probably doing god knows what to her unconscious body. Sinon handled the situation better than expected, considering she has PTSD.

Overall I think this season is vastly better than the first, and I actually enjoyed the first season. Most of the problems people bring up never bothered me, and Kirito doesn't rub me the wrong way like he does most people, as I enjoy seeing him kick ass. Most of the flaws people complain about I'm simply like "You know what? Sure... I'll buy it." Yes, you can say it's wish-fulfillment fantasy, but that's exactly it. It's wish-fulfillment, so I can wind down and enjoy it for what it is. And even if I had a problem with that I won't deny when the anime does something right, which it does several times, at least from my perspective.
The things that bother people about SAO simply don't annoy me. While I haven't enjoyed this season as much as the first (Asuna, my favourite character, hasn't had enough screen time or involvement) it's been enjoyable. I like to watch Kirito kick ass like the Mary Sue that he is and Sinon is a pretty interesting character. The story is entertaining and I like all of the characters.

On the subject of villains - it is refreshing for me to have villains that are flat out disgusting and horrible, who you can just hate. Oberon in ALO and now [REDACTED] in GGO, have been disgusting, deplorable people. It's nice to just have despicable enemies instead of sympathetic villains with tragic pasts or plausibly good motivations for a change. Granted I think they spent a little too long on the sexual assault scene this time, but I still thought it was quite good.
I would like villians to have some development or depth personally. It makes them more compelling than a man who wants to take over the world.

to put it into perspective, here are two of the best villains in anime according to some

Both are complete and utter monsters but both have a backstory or at least a character to their madness and sadism. To me, a blatantly evil villain with no character is like an old cartoon villain; no fear, no impact, no sense of pure monstrous personality.

Also, I don't like Gary Sues. the closest characters to a Gary Sue I can think of that I've seen is Kamijou Touma from the Index series and Sora/Shiro from No Game No LIfe. I really don't care for Touma since the other people in his ensamble are more fun; as for No Game No Life, the enjoyment is mostly the sheer insanity of how they beat it and even they have a major flaw (social anxiety) and generally have a personality to bounce off Steph and Jibiril. Kirito though really doesn't have a real personality to bounce off people and the rest of the cast keeps getting sidelined for his antics. So I am watching a charcter with no real personality, no real flaw, and generally pushes other cast members and their potential aside for the self-insert.

Edit: most of my criticism of SAO comes from the light novels and what little of the anime i've seen. I stopped reading the light novel because it was getting insane with the abilities and I was interested in the anime but people were not exactly very positive about it.
 

Arina Love

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Izanagi009 said:
Arina Love said:
Izanagi009 said:
Arina Love said:
I saw no problem with that, Kirito saves the day again just like Kirito always does it's what SAO is. What did you expect ? If you manged to watch SAO up to ep 13 of season 2 you should know by now how world works and that Kirito will come and save damsel in distress. Don't like it? Feel free to drop.

Izanagi009 said:
Times are changing and the otaku audience being pandered to at this point is shrinking ever so slowly.
Yeah i would like a citation on that. Judging from amount of fanservise shows every season otaku pandering still going strong. Not that it's a bad thing.
Perhaps I was a bit quick to claim that the audience is shrinking but it's more what I hope for. Eventually, these people will have to get jobs and lives once their parents and support network die off and when that happens, the pandering will probably stay the same but the audience sure will decreased.

Regardless, whether it's par for the course that Kirito always saves the girl, it's still bad writing that should be criticized
Let's not generalize here. You think otaku can't have a job and a life ? Aren't you a little close minded? Or perhaps you think that otaku = hikikomori ? You fighting for social justice and yet you condemn and generalize a group of people ?

Kirito saving everyone is a theme of SAO it's not bad writing it's what SAO is and always been. You may not like it but there are plenty of people that do, and that's why he continues to write SAO LNs.
Can otaku have jobs, yes. unfortunately, a good chunk of the revenue for anime is from merchandise and a significant chunk of merchandise is targeted to hikikomori who live under the support of their parents' money and don't need to work for anything. They are targeting the demographic that is supported by their families; why else would blu-rays be so expensive. Perhaps I did jump the gun a bit and failed to use the right rhetoric but I will concede my failure in that regard. However on a specific note, this is not a social justice issue, this is an issue of bad writing and stupid fantasies.

Also, theme or not, it's still based of a stupid self-insert fantasy. I get that Asuna tried to free herself in ALO and that Sinon is pretty independent in the game but the sexual assault and constant harem nature destroy what was a perfectly good concept and a perfectly good romance (I admit the Kirito/Asuna romance was somewhat cute in the first half of SAO). I don't know why SAO LNs still sell but lets turn the question around a different way and I think this is more relavent for you; why are Infinite Stratos LNs still being made? It's not because of the writing; characters don't develop past tropes and the protagonist is insufferable. It's not because of the action; it gets sidelined way too often. The only reason I can think is a self-insert fantasy and the cute but generic girls (note, I have actually read them in high school during my infinite boredom, one of the worst mistakes of my life culturally). I have a feeling most people buying SAO have an equally base reason.
Again i need a citation for "merchandise and a significant chunk of merchandise is targeted to hikikomori", you provide no proof of that and yet you still stating it as a fact.

Just because you don't like self-insert fantasy doesn't mean it's stupid. It works for people and that's why Anime/Ln/manga like that are popular. Personally i like shows like that, and buy a lot of merch associated with shoes like that, and contrary to your belief i'm not a hikikomori.
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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Arina Love said:
Izanagi009 said:
Arina Love said:
Izanagi009 said:
Arina Love said:
I saw no problem with that, Kirito saves the day again just like Kirito always does it's what SAO is. What did you expect ? If you manged to watch SAO up to ep 13 of season 2 you should know by now how world works and that Kirito will come and save damsel in distress. Don't like it? Feel free to drop.

Izanagi009 said:
Times are changing and the otaku audience being pandered to at this point is shrinking ever so slowly.
Yeah i would like a citation on that. Judging from amount of fanservise shows every season otaku pandering still going strong. Not that it's a bad thing.
Perhaps I was a bit quick to claim that the audience is shrinking but it's more what I hope for. Eventually, these people will have to get jobs and lives once their parents and support network die off and when that happens, the pandering will probably stay the same but the audience sure will decreased.

Regardless, whether it's par for the course that Kirito always saves the girl, it's still bad writing that should be criticized
Let's not generalize here. You think otaku can't have a job and a life ? Aren't you a little close minded? Or perhaps you think that otaku = hikikomori ? You fighting for social justice and yet you condemn and generalize a group of people ?

Kirito saving everyone is a theme of SAO it's not bad writing it's what SAO is and always been. You may not like it but there are plenty of people that do, and that's why he continues to write SAO LNs.
Can otaku have jobs, yes. unfortunately, a good chunk of the revenue for anime is from merchandise and a significant chunk of merchandise is targeted to hikikomori who live under the support of their parents' money and don't need to work for anything. They are targeting the demographic that is supported by their families; why else would blu-rays be so expensive. Perhaps I did jump the gun a bit and failed to use the right rhetoric but I will concede my failure in that regard. However on a specific note, this is not a social justice issue, this is an issue of bad writing and stupid fantasies.

Also, theme or not, it's still based of a stupid self-insert fantasy. I get that Asuna tried to free herself in ALO and that Sinon is pretty independent in the game but the sexual assault and constant harem nature destroy what was a perfectly good concept and a perfectly good romance (I admit the Kirito/Asuna romance was somewhat cute in the first half of SAO). I don't know why SAO LNs still sell but lets turn the question around a different way and I think this is more relavent for you; why are Infinite Stratos LNs still being made? It's not because of the writing; characters don't develop past tropes and the protagonist is insufferable. It's not because of the action; it gets sidelined way too often. The only reason I can think is a self-insert fantasy and the cute but generic girls (note, I have actually read them in high school during my infinite boredom, one of the worst mistakes of my life culturally). I have a feeling most people buying SAO have an equally base reason.
Again i need a citation for "merchandise and a significant chunk of merchandise is targeted to hikikomori", you provide no proof of that and yet you still stating it as a fact.

Just because you don't like self-insert fantasy doesn't mean it's stupid. It works for people and that's why Anime/Ln/manga like that are popular. Personally i like shows like that, and buy a lot of merch associated with shows like that, and contrary to your belief i'm not a hikikomori.
Found a post that is part of a series talking about the industry here [http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-03-07]

Under the section "The High Prices...Explained", it states that otaku started buying discs at rental prices only meant for video stores. In addition, it would seem only hardcore people buy the dvds due to the lack of space for a collection. Now apprently, the few thousand hard core fans are the ones who help shows make profit.

So I was wrong about the merchandise, apparently the money comes more from DVD and Blu-rays than merchandise but this seems like a precarious situation having only a few thousand people supporting a show instead of having the large audience.

Perhaps, I've been hyperbolic and I will concede that but ultimately, this focus on the hardcore and not the general audience will prove detrimental to both the artistic and economic side of anime. Artistic, I would think that they would not change their formulas or themes in order to keep hold of the hard core and economically, the market will die off at some point taking the whole thing with it.

Edit: the reason i despise self-insert fantasy is that it's just not good writing. We know the fantasy will not usually punish the participant and so most everything will go well. In addition, i'm 20 at this point, I have reality to deal with and trying to project into a self-insert can create unrealistic expectations of what you are going to be. Thematically, it does not allow people to grow towards being better people and instead it gives them a comfy lie to hide in.
 

Nazulu

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I somehow finished this anime, and regretted it. I really have no idea how I made it to the end.

Any way, I know the very scene you're talking about, and it did make me feel uncomfortable as it felt like it just dragged on and on. They just constantly showed the suffering of the victim and the evil grin and comical laugh of the rapist as he slowly took her apart.

Honestly, I don't know how anyone can call that entertainment, but at the same time who am I to say whats allowed. There's a whole bunch of overly horrific scenes I've accidentally come across in all types of entertainment and seems it doesn't turn anyone into psycho's.

I agree though Izanagi. It is exploitative and lazy to use the same horror over, though I'm not really sure you could say they did that since there was plenty of wasteful deaths and hopeless scenarios in it too. However, Beserk kind of did it as well and didn't bother me at all. The classic anime, not the new crap.
 

F4TK

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Honestly, the scene itself didn't bother me as it was executed because it was actually kinda realistic in setup. Sinon was a well developed character recovering from PTSD and overcame a personal challenge to fight back and frankly, this sort of situation is the kind of one that most frequently happens.
Nearly all rapes are by someone that the victim knows. The attacker has planned ahead of time, and they choose a target that they believe they can easily overpower and will not fight back in a place where they are vulnerable. Guy being an actual lunatic with crazy eyes, not so much.

The problem is that this dark, gritty and traumatic event took place not in Breaking Bad, The Wire or a mature adult TV show. It took place in a damn anime about people playing a MMORPG in cyberspace.

Then follow it up with the writing which had Kirito go on his own to Sinon's house where they believed a murderer was hanging out until a few minutes ago instead of calling the damn police to deal with a potentially armed serial killer with the flimsy excuse of "Well we killed Death Gun in the game, so the murderer should have just gone away now!". That's face palmingly stupid and all to allow Kirito to be the hero again.

If that scene had been put in the right anime at the right time it would have been fine. As it stands, it's just unwarranted and dumb. You could have had Kyoji threaten to kill her her for rejecting his advances on its own, Sinon overcoming PTSD to grab a gun to defend herself while Kirito (and the police turn up) and it would have fit perfectly within in general tone of the rest of the season and capped Sinon's story arc perfectly.

That said, there's still 11 episodes of the season left.
 

Arina Love

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Izanagi009 said:
Edit: the reason i despise self-insert fantasy is that it's just not good writing. We know the fantasy will not usually punish the participant and so most everything will go well. In addition, i'm 20 at this point, I have reality to deal with and trying to project into a self-insert can create unrealistic expectations of what you are going to be. Thematically, it does not allow people to grow towards being better people and instead it gives them a comfy lie to hide in.
Well i don't create expectations from self-insert anime because i know it's a fiction, as well as not every work of fiction should serve as tool to better ourselves. Sometimes a unwind is needed and for me Moe/harem/Fanservice anime is that tool to unwind, take my mind of everything and relax.
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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Arina Love said:
Izanagi009 said:
Edit: the reason i despise self-insert fantasy is that it's just not good writing. We know the fantasy will not usually punish the participant and so most everything will go well. In addition, i'm 20 at this point, I have reality to deal with and trying to project into a self-insert can create unrealistic expectations of what you are going to be. Thematically, it does not allow people to grow towards being better people and instead it gives them a comfy lie to hide in.
Well i don't create expectations from self-insert anime because i know it's a fiction, as well as not every work of fiction should serve as tool to better ourselves. Sometimes a unwind is needed and for me Moe/harem/Fanservice anime is that tool to unwind, take my mind of everything and relax.
Then I suppose that's where we differ. I unwind with a thematic story and looking at the interplay between characters and the world. Hell, Index, the worst show I will admit to watching, still have it's good elements and its's fun for me to see how they will use extreme leaps of logic to create displays of power or what aspect/myth of religion will make the next ultra powerful spell. To me, unwinding completely makes me more bored and I would rather have my brain work a bit or at least be laughing along (Jojo's is the latter, it's so fun to see what the gang will do, especially Joseph and Polnareff).

Seeing a moe or harem show bores me because all I see is just the gears of a story working; first persona a enters then comes person b, Person b has x trait that conflicts with y trait from person a, cue cliche ecchi scene or pointless conflict, resolve in standard fashion, back to status quo. At least with thematic stories or completely insane shows, there is something to distract me from looking at the narrative gears.
 

RandV80

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Izanagi009 said:
While I will admit that perhaps I overreacted that it's still not good writing and just seems to add to the list of self-insert bull I see SAO do

I am just getting really tired of the self-insert aspect of anime. Yes, anime is made for demographics but that doesn't mean you coddle those demographics and tell them their fantasies are okay. No, reality is not that comfortable and while maybe some of the shows I like can go too far in the other end, I would still prefer them since it's giving people a slap to the face

Add my hate of self-insert with the generally abysmal writing of such works and it's a recipe for making me want to smash something.
Hah, perhaps I'm more tolerant of the show and it's one of the very few anime's I still watch because I've never seen or identified with Kirito as a 'self insert' character. I just enjoy the setting and the story pacing... well the first season moved too quick but I meant it always keeps me wanting to tune in next week.
 

Lugbzurg

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dragoongfa said:
Calm down and repeat after me:

SAO should not be taken seriously because SAO is terribly written from start to finish. SAO gets so much attention only because it was the first breakaway of the new 'gamer world' trope.
.Hack would like to have a word with you. He just spent the day with Grandpa Tron.

Sword Art Online is... not intelligent. And if that were all, it'd be instantly forgotten and there wouldn't be much to discuss. But it goes far beyond just being stupid and pretentious. It's downright revolting.

Why is it that when one villain has murdered 4,000 people, unlawfully imprisoned 10,000, and left countless more scarred for life, the show tries to pretend that this guy is some great hero and the main character idolizes him? But when we have an idiot goofball of a villain who's most hated for touching a girl inappropriately in a VIRTUAL SIMULATION with the settings deactivating her sense of touch, the show and the main character consider this guy to be the worst scum in the universe. Something's not right here. And indeed, a lot of people have fallen for this propaganda. You wouldn't believe how many times I've seen people who honestly believe that Kayaba (who's pretty much the animé equivalent of Osama Bin Laden) is a great and heroic man, yet believe Sugou is the greater evil? At least he went out of his way to prevent trauma from his (tremendously less) prisioners by keeping them unconscious and didn't kill anyone. That doesn't make him a good person at all. But when someone's trying to say that the mass murderer is heroic, while this guy is far more evil, there's something seriously wrong with them.

I remember someone screaming their head off at me for daring to say that Kayaba was the greater evil. He even went on to say that "at least Kayaba didn't try to kill Kirito." Why, you're absolutely right! Kayaba didn't try to kill Kirito. He DID kill Kirito, who then miraculously came back to life with no explanation whatsoever. His waifu, too.

Speaking of which, this Asuna brat is disgusting. People call her a tsundere, but that isn't true at all. A tsundere starts out hating someone, but then grows to admire them completely later. Asuna just darts back and forth with a multi-personality disorder. She actually switches personalities at the drop of a hat. Actually, a lot of characters do that. But what makes her so much worse are three things... One... She explains that she maxed out her cooking skill, and that's something virtually no one has been able to accomplish, meaning she's been neglecting her life or death duties constantly to make pixelated goodies for her own amusement. If she's so much more focused on making fake food than people who DON'T actually have the duties of protecting people's lives every day, she's already a horrible enough person as it is. But it gets worse. Two... With no provocation whatsoever, she strips right in front of Kirito... and a bunch of large open windows. The multiple giant implications of this are just horrifying and suggests a lot of creepy things about the life choices of her past. Three... When Kirito says that he doesn't want to have sex with someone he doesn't know that well and isn't married to, how does she respond? Why, with domestic abuse, of course! Yep! She actually does this several times. She'll beat him up for no reason, even when she's the one at fault here. She will actually use physical violence against someone who has not wronged her in any way. She's a psychopath.

But Kirito's also a psychopath. After all, he did torture Sugou. Oh... oh, some of you don't remember that? Well, then, allow me to refresh your memory... First, he somehow logged into an admin account on ALO, which makes one wonder why he didn't just do that a long time ago, where he got it from, and how logging in under Kayaba's username should have any effect on a game he had nothing to do with (it's like logging in as Shigeru Miyamoto on Dota 2 and expecting to have administion rights), which he then uses to turn the pain sensor to zero, so every strike deals the exact kind of pain it would in real life (even though we were already told these helmets were recalled because they had the capacity to cause pain and kill people). And what does he do with this? Why, he chops the dude's hand off, slices him in half, throws what's left of him in the air, and then proceeds to stab him straight through his head while triumphant and heroic music plays in the background. Sugou was a bad person... but he did NOT deserve to endure something this horrific. And when the story goes back to the real world, you actually get to see just how messed up his real body is after Kirito tortured him like that. You know what we call these types of characters? Characters that lose all humanity and do what Kirito just did? We call them "yangires"... we call them "sadists"... we call them "psychopaths"... we call them "barbarians"... we call them "evil". What Kirito did to that guy makes him lose all sympathy. He could've just knocked him away with his Kirito powers, but no... he had to toy with the guy... play with him... cut him to shreds. Meanwhile, Kirito goes on about what an amazing person the guy who murdered 4,000 people (including Kirito himself, before resurrecting for no reason) is. What a despicable scumbag. I have more respect for Light Yagami and Makoto Itou; two protagonists who are supposed to be despicable and unlikable!

There's also the fact that Kirito is so lazy, doing nothing and getting all kinds of rewards and being praised for doing absolutely nothing. That whole "duel-wielding" scenario is a prime example of this. And let's not forget the "fight" scene where seven guys try to attack him all at once and he just stands there because he somehow got regenerating health that's so good that it recharges faster than they can cut it down. (And this never comes up again, nor was it even important to the sub-plot at hand.) This is the same guy who destroyed a blacksmith's weapon and then demanded that he forge him an extra sword that he doesn't need. And then she gets a crush on him in about eight hours because (and I quote) "the warmth of his hand is so real!" This is the same guy who was faced with accusations about withholding information about the game's beta build and leaving someone to die, even though the beta build was different at it wasn't his fault, he still actively went out of his way to make everyone believe he was the one responsible for the poor player's death... and then everyone loves him. This is also the same guy who already had a girlfriend, but told his own cousin that he is actually considering a romantic relationship with her.

Kirito is a much more vile than Sugou could ever be.
 

Aerosteam

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This is standard practice for SOA. No matter what happens Kirito will save the day and show he's the greatest character ever because fuck you.
erttheking said:
My god, you still haven't put that in your story yet? I remember you bringing it up ages ago.
 

Erttheking

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Aerosteam said:
This is standard practice for SOA. No matter what happens Kirito will save the day and show he's the greatest character ever because fuck you.
erttheking said:
My god, you still haven't put that in your story yet? I remember you bringing it up ages ago.
My writing has slowed to a crawl as of late. I update only around once a month, give or take, now. I have a hard time focusing on my work.
 

The Wykydtron

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I was kind of ok with it I guess. Though I don't know what "tension" you're talking about OP because it was obvious that overpowered as fuck Kirito would show up to save her like he always does. Maybe a bit more tension than usual though because real world Kirito can't God Mode so easily but it's still a 2v1 at that point.

I don't complain about SAO anymore, i've accepted it as complete popcorn entertainment and Kirito being broken OP has evolved from being a generic wish fulfilment character into a full theme of the series. I like the way the plot did kinda try to make Kirito vulnerable again with the few murders he had to commit in SAO being addressed by him. Honestly one of my favourite parts of the series is how the immense withdrawal effects of over 2 years in an MMORPG can manifest when integrating back to society. I'm a fan of the unconscious sword sheathing Kirito still does for example, it's a nice touch.
 

The Wykydtron

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Izanagi009 said:
RandV80 said:
She did fight back but you can't always save yourself from rape or whatever bad thing may happen.

But from a narrative perspective it seems silly that Kirito is the one that comes rushing in to save the day.

1. His punk as was lucky the perp was a younger & scrawnier teen, could have been a dangerous criminal waiting for him there
2. Why wouldn't you send the police first? Now typically you would say that the police would be slow to respond to this sort of thing, but he's working directly for some special task force right now.
3. Maybe she pops in next episode but where's Asuna? She was there in the hospital with him before, I find it hard to believe that she'd suddenly turn on docile little wife mode and let him run off on his own.

Regardless though with this SJW stuff being all the rage these days it's funny watching kids react to these things sometimes.
While I will admit that perhaps I overreacted that it's still not good writing and just seems to add to the list of self-insert bull I see SAO do

I am just getting really tired of the self-insert aspect of anime. Yes, anime is made for demographics but that doesn't mean you coddle those demographics and tell them their fantasies are okay. No, reality is not that comfortable and while maybe some of the shows I like can go too far in the other end, I would still prefer them since it's giving people a slap to the face

Add my hate of self-insert with the generally abysmal writing of such works and it's a recipe for making me want to smash something.
Oh off topic but since you hate self-inserts, can I ask your opinion on Mahouka if you've seen it? Like, I see all these people radgin' about OP Kirito but dear me, have you seen Tatsuya in Mahouka? Legit Anime Jesus. Everything he does is perfect, even when they attempt to set up a rival for him, he just dunks the fuck out of him while introducing another broken power that only Tatsuya can use and created singehandedly in secret.

I suppose the closest thing to weakness he has is his personality? Maybe? As one character says to him when he tries to downplay yet another OP move "oh it wasn't just me who picked up on the smallest hack on my sister's magic device then judo threw the culprit in rage" (even though it was 100% him no doubt about it) and she just tells him "too much modesty comes off as sarcasm" which is true. It can be downright insulting in the wrong context.

In the most recent episode, it opens with him descending from the sky in a really godlike way shooting healing rays at his allies and instagibbing all his enemies. I couldn't make this shit up if I tried.

Do you remember when this was a highschool anime about dealing with classism/elitism with magic elements? Good times.
 

kyp275

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The amount of misinformation in this thread is rather amusing, but I guess that's just the usual with bash posts. No one is going to try to argue that SAO is some literary masterpiece, but at the same time, the only reason why it gets bashed this much is simply due to its popularity.

dragoongfa said:
For someone who says SAO is terribly written ?from start to finish?, you sure have quite a few mistakes in your recollection of the events in the story.

First off, really? The helmet is too much of a stretch for you? By that standard, you might as well throw out every single sci-fi/fantasy (or for that matter, most fictions) out the window. I can tell you all the in-universe explanations for this and the other issues you have with the settings, but it's rather obvious that being internally consistent (which is all that's required for a fictional work) doesn't matter one bit for you, since you plainly just don't like the setting.

Izanagi009 said:
As for the show itself, look this isn't the early 1930's when the Conan books were made or the 70's and 80's when the comics came out, this is 2014...
No it's not. What you also apparently failed to grasp is that Japan is also no the US/Europe, it was not designed for you, you are not its core demographic. Do you also complain why Sponge Bob doesn't have a riveting and mature story?

Izanagi009 said:
Edit: most of my criticism of SAO comes from the light novels and what little of the anime i've seen. I stopped reading the light novel because it was getting insane with the abilities and I was interested in the anime but people were not exactly very positive about it.
TBH, the first half of SAO is a jumbled mess of going in different directions. Mother's Rosario is probably the best story to come out of that half outside of the Aincrad part. The second half, aka Alicization, is much better put together.

Lugbzurg said:
Why is it that when one villain has murdered 4,000 people, unlawfully imprisoned 10,000, and left countless more scarred for life, the show tries to pretend that this guy is some great hero and the main character idolizes him?
Probably because he wasn't, and Kirito didn't. Did Kayaba have his redeeming moments? Yea, but he's never painted as anything other than an anti-hero at best. And nowhere in the entire story did Kirito ?idolize? Kayaba after the SAO incident.

Why, you're absolutely right! Kayaba didn't try to kill Kirito. He DID kill Kirito, who then miraculously came back to life with no explanation whatsoever. His waifu, too.
Uh, no. Kayaba can't ?un-fry? someone's brain, he simply stopped their helmets from going into brain-frying mode. Kirito didn't come back to life, he never died in the first place.

The rest of your stuff isn't even worth addressing. There's legitimate griping about characters, and then there's just out-of-the-world character bashing, which is what all that is.
 

geK0

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Some of the scenes from the second season with Asuna made me feel pretty uncomfortable. A lot of the scenes seemed a bit rapey for my liking : \
 

Ramzal

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If people think Sword art online's second season antagonist was creepy/bad/disturbing, I would strongly advise they'd never even think of watching Dexter, Oz, or really anything that involves anyone being anything outside of a model citizen. Compared to many other forms of entertainment in shows/movies sword art was extremely tame.
 

Fieldy409_v1legacy

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It would have been an amazing scene if Sinon had straight up snapped into berserk mode like her childhood self defense thing and took that syringe and stabbed the weirdo with it to murder him.

At least she tried to fight instead of giving up and crying before the hero saves them.
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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The Wykydtron said:
Izanagi009 said:
RandV80 said:
She did fight back but you can't always save yourself from rape or whatever bad thing may happen.

But from a narrative perspective it seems silly that Kirito is the one that comes rushing in to save the day.

1. His punk as was lucky the perp was a younger & scrawnier teen, could have been a dangerous criminal waiting for him there
2. Why wouldn't you send the police first? Now typically you would say that the police would be slow to respond to this sort of thing, but he's working directly for some special task force right now.
3. Maybe she pops in next episode but where's Asuna? She was there in the hospital with him before, I find it hard to believe that she'd suddenly turn on docile little wife mode and let him run off on his own.

Regardless though with this SJW stuff being all the rage these days it's funny watching kids react to these things sometimes.
While I will admit that perhaps I overreacted that it's still not good writing and just seems to add to the list of self-insert bull I see SAO do

I am just getting really tired of the self-insert aspect of anime. Yes, anime is made for demographics but that doesn't mean you coddle those demographics and tell them their fantasies are okay. No, reality is not that comfortable and while maybe some of the shows I like can go too far in the other end, I would still prefer them since it's giving people a slap to the face

Add my hate of self-insert with the generally abysmal writing of such works and it's a recipe for making me want to smash something.
Oh off topic but since you hate self-inserts, can I ask your opinion on Mahouka if you've seen it? Like, I see all these people radgin' about OP Kirito but dear me, have you seen Tatsuya in Mahouka? Legit Anime Jesus. Everything he does is perfect, even when they attempt to set up a rival for him, he just dunks the fuck out of him while introducing another broken power that only Tatsuya can use and created singehandedly in secret.

I suppose the closest thing to weakness he has is his personality? Maybe? As one character says to him when he tries to downplay yet another OP move "oh it wasn't just me who picked up on the smallest hack on my sister's magic device then judo threw the culprit in rage" (even though it was 100% him no doubt about it) and she just tells him "too much modesty comes off as sarcasm" which is true. It can be downright insulting in the wrong context.

In the most recent episode, it opens with him descending from the sky in a really godlike way shooting healing rays at his allies and instagibbing all his enemies. I couldn't make this shit up if I tried.

Do you remember when this was a highschool anime about dealing with classism/elitism with magic elements? Good times.
I haven't watched it but I read up on it because the information based system of magic seemed intriguing but I found that it was just self-insert after self-insert and I couldn't bring myself to watch it