Syndicate Gets Gimmicky
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
My problem with voice controls is the same as my problem with motion controls and 3D visuals: it works against immersion because it takes only the most shallow view of our senses.Yahtzee Croshaw said:
Say what you will about our collective stupidity, our brains are pretty good at separating real sensory input from fake. (Information, however, is another matter entirely) So, if you're trying to trick someone with fake sensory input, just about the worst thing you can do is put real sensory input in the mix. It's why many CG characters can look fine on their own, but ridiculous next to real actors (Andy Serkis being the exception).
If I'm "participating" in a battle full of booming explosions and wooshing aircraft and howling monster-robot-aliens, in the echo-y ruins of of a fallen skyscraper, the surest way to yank me out of that environment is to force me to hear my own voice in the less-than-epic acoustics of my living room.
And here I am scratching my head wondering why Microsoft slapped a "Better with Kinect Sensor" on the front of ME3's boxart, even though they were fully aware it detracts from the game.
It's a quantity over quality thing, I think. Ah well.
It's a quantity over quality thing, I think. Ah well.
THANK YOU.
I could never understand the people who said they preferred a silent protagonist because they liked to say the lines themselves. Destroys all semblance of immersion for me.
Why does this make me think of the "climb into a space turret and shoot bits of space stuff before they hit you" part of "Dead Space"?
I don't have a Kinect, and I haven't played Mass Effect 3 (yet). But honestly, I like the idea of voice controls if they work seamlessly. For me, being able to command my teammates to switch weapons, take cover, advance, or retreat by actually saying the command out loud would increase immersion. Also, it would free up buttons on the controller. But only if it worked seamlessly. And, so far, it does not.
My voice is a deep rich masculine baritone that inspires men and woos women so I don't mind hearing it give commands. But if, while playing the game, I remind my roommate to cover the dish when he microwaves a burrito, and subsequently my teammates go scrambling behind cover, yeah that does kind of ruin it. Maybe if there was a "mute" button? Although, I guess there already is, isn't there? It's called "pause". Hm, maybe I wouldn't have a problem with it. But as I said, I don't have a Kinect so I probably won't find out any time soon.
As far as using using voice commands outside of combat, no. Navigating dialogue trees only requires a couple of buttons, and you have all the time in the world. What's the point? I mean, if someday we get to the point where we can actually just speak to the game and have it respond in kind, fantastic. But that day is a long way off.
My voice is a deep rich masculine baritone that inspires men and woos women so I don't mind hearing it give commands. But if, while playing the game, I remind my roommate to cover the dish when he microwaves a burrito, and subsequently my teammates go scrambling behind cover, yeah that does kind of ruin it. Maybe if there was a "mute" button? Although, I guess there already is, isn't there? It's called "pause". Hm, maybe I wouldn't have a problem with it. But as I said, I don't have a Kinect so I probably won't find out any time soon.
As far as using using voice commands outside of combat, no. Navigating dialogue trees only requires a couple of buttons, and you have all the time in the world. What's the point? I mean, if someday we get to the point where we can actually just speak to the game and have it respond in kind, fantastic. But that day is a long way off.
I used to call the Assassin's Creed climbing system a "gimmick",but it's actually really well implemented mechanic,it kept the game from falling apart for me.Same with AC2,the story told in that game I found lacking,enjoyed the assassinations more,for what they're worth...
The shooting sections in Mass Effect 3 sometimes really did feel like obstacles between me and the dialog pies I wanted to taste,hell I even played on casual,just to make them shorter,because I play that game for the story,not the shooting.
The shooting sections in Mass Effect 3 sometimes really did feel like obstacles between me and the dialog pies I wanted to taste,hell I even played on casual,just to make them shorter,because I play that game for the story,not the shooting.
To me a "Gimmick" is a tangential feature that positions itself as an improvement in order to differentiate a product or experience, but ultimately adds nothing concrete or meaningful.
An example would be the Coors Light two stage cold activation sticker. Yes, it does what it advertises. It indicates that your beverage is cold. This is nothing that you couldn't discern through more mundane means such as TOUCHING THE CAN but there it is. It doesn't make the beer colder. It doesn't make Coors Light taste like anything but giraffe piss, but by God it gives you a generalized description of the object's temperature.
This is why I regard the Kinect as a whole as a gimmick. In 90% of the cases the use of the kinect does not improve a gameplay experience. That isn't to say you can't use it for things. But those things could all be achieved (more efficiently) via methods already available to us since the launch of the original Xbox.
I think that definition is pretty compatible with everything Yahtzee mentioned in the article. (Which I am in full agreement with.)
An example would be the Coors Light two stage cold activation sticker. Yes, it does what it advertises. It indicates that your beverage is cold. This is nothing that you couldn't discern through more mundane means such as TOUCHING THE CAN but there it is. It doesn't make the beer colder. It doesn't make Coors Light taste like anything but giraffe piss, but by God it gives you a generalized description of the object's temperature.
This is why I regard the Kinect as a whole as a gimmick. In 90% of the cases the use of the kinect does not improve a gameplay experience. That isn't to say you can't use it for things. But those things could all be achieved (more efficiently) via methods already available to us since the launch of the original Xbox.
I think that definition is pretty compatible with everything Yahtzee mentioned in the article. (Which I am in full agreement with.)
I like the voice controls in ME3 overall. I find it much more immersive/efficient to shout "Liara, singularity!" and have her do it rather than faff around with the radial menu. I would rather you could turn off specific uses in the menu so I could turn off the conversation and interaction commands. I just want the combat ones.
It is true that the game talks to itself though which is incredibly annoying. I learned early not to point Shepard at anything intractable while someones talking. There was an amusing incident in a mission when he said "they're THROWING everything they have at us!" and interpreted that as an instruction to throw a grenade at a wall.
It is true that the game talks to itself though which is incredibly annoying. I learned early not to point Shepard at anything intractable while someones talking. There was an amusing incident in a mission when he said "they're THROWING everything they have at us!" and interpreted that as an instruction to throw a grenade at a wall.
If you need it its a mechanic, if you don't its a gimmick.
If you can't get through the game without the mechanic it retains its mechanic status. If the mechanic has more than one purpose, it retains its mechanic status. If you could take that single mechanic out of it's host game and make a decent game out of it alone, it's a core mechanic.
If a mechanic can't do any of these, it's downgraded to a gimmick. Also if the mechanic can, logically, be replaced another mechanic in the game (having to solve a puzzle to open a wooden door when using an Ax would have the same effect in the real world), it's downgraded to a gimmick.
If you can't get through the game without the mechanic it retains its mechanic status. If the mechanic has more than one purpose, it retains its mechanic status. If you could take that single mechanic out of it's host game and make a decent game out of it alone, it's a core mechanic.
If a mechanic can't do any of these, it's downgraded to a gimmick. Also if the mechanic can, logically, be replaced another mechanic in the game (having to solve a puzzle to open a wooden door when using an Ax would have the same effect in the real world), it's downgraded to a gimmick.
*in carnival game voice* aaannnnND WE HAVE A WIN-AR!Slothboy said:
I think this deffinition is perfect for discribing the Kinect sensor's use in ME3 perfectly. I dont have a Kinect, but I played ME3 just fine.
*Edit*
The game you are thinking of is Tom Clancy's End War. Havent played it, but I heard the voice control wasnt that good. There was another game back for the PS2 called Lifeline. its "gimmick" was you controlled the main character with only voice commands. The problem with that, and with most voice command games, is the recognition of the voiced command. If you dont say it just right, the game wont register it right.Ilikemilkshake said:
I think there was a Tom Clancy RTS that used voice commands a few years back. No idea how it played but in theory it's a good idea. One thing that people don't like about RTS games is the micromanagement, so if you can tell your units where to go then that actually could make playing more efficient.MC K-Mac said:
But this is assuming the commands work 100% of the time as intended and they mostly don't unfortunately but i hope one day we get there.
A gimmick in a game is a feature! that isn't well integrated/doesn't actually change the gameplay experience much.
So in Syndicate it's a gimmick because although you can collect a bunch of allies what you do most of the time is exactly like other shooters. Voice control sounds cool but doesn't fundamentally change how you play the game.
Rail sections can be a gimmick when they're a short pointless break from ordinary shooting but overall most of the gameplay experience is bogstandard shooting.
Rewind in modern racers isn't a gimmick because it changes a huge aspect of how you would play the game. Instead of restarting the race you just retry a corner
So in Syndicate it's a gimmick because although you can collect a bunch of allies what you do most of the time is exactly like other shooters. Voice control sounds cool but doesn't fundamentally change how you play the game.
Rail sections can be a gimmick when they're a short pointless break from ordinary shooting but overall most of the gameplay experience is bogstandard shooting.
Rewind in modern racers isn't a gimmick because it changes a huge aspect of how you would play the game. Instead of restarting the race you just retry a corner
Then again, the game was full of physics puzzles and the gravity gun was the most effective way of interacting with it. The use in Ravenholm was forced, but not unlike all those games that has rocket launchers and health packs right before a boss battle. Call it "chekhov's gun of game design".Akalabeth said:
To me, a gimmick is something designers create to differentiate from other (very similar) games. One example could be the american setting in Homefront that PR keep pushing as something entirely different than most modern shooters, the 2vs2 mode in Street Fighter x Tekken or, yes, the demon form in Painkiller, which was only required in a boss battle (I beat the game never using it, other than there) and yet another effective way to kill things in a game with no shortage of effective ways to kill things.
Mass Effect's voice commands hardly qualify because its not differentiating Mass Effect 3 from other games (aside from Mass Effect 2)
I don't think that's totally fair. People that make that comment usually mean they make up the lines in their head, and (usually) don't actually vocalize it themselves.OhJohnNo said: