Talking Back?

Kakashi on crack

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I've always had a very "I might not be right, but that doesn't make you right" attitude in which I don't mind being proved wrong, but will use every resource to make the opposer wrong in the process.

As it stands, I've always had intellectual conversations (I.E. Respectful arguements) with my mother regarding many topics over the years. Over the summer, I announced that I have plans to try and join the U.S. airforce as an engineer. I've also been able to prove my mother wrong more and more in my intellectual arguements with her, and to be frank I think a bit of bitterness has formed.

Within the last couple months, whenever I try and make a proper response, or arguement regarding a topic, I've been getting the "don't talk back" response and if I push for why she won't engage in arguements with me any more, I'm getting the general "you're being disrespectful, if you act like that you'll never get into the army, etc." responses completely avoiding the questions I ask entirely.

So I want to ask, why do you think there has been a sudden change in persona? The only things that have really changed are that I can come up with better responses and she has gone back to college.

Personally my ego says that its because I'm getting smart enough to prove myself right more and more, and my mother is intimidated somehow. Another part of me for some reason thinks she's trying to convince me to not go into the military, but at the same time I don't see these as being completely valid points for the sudden change, so I wanted feedback from the escapist community regarding this matter.
 

Shakaar9267

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Kakashi on crack said:
I'm getting smart enough to prove myself right more and more, and my mother is intimidated somehow.
This.

It's not fun when you find out your kids have become smarter then you.
 

Kakashi on crack

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Shakaar9267 said:
Kakashi on crack said:
I'm getting smart enough to prove myself right more and more, and my mother is intimidated somehow.
This.

It's not fun when you find out your kids have become smarter then you.
I think that might be a side thing affecting it but for some reason I can't wrap my head around that being the big picture.
 

Blow_Pop

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Jan 21, 2009
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your age + joining the military + finding out her kid is smarter than her.
 

Jakub324

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Shakaar9267 said:
Kakashi on crack said:
I'm getting smart enough to prove myself right more and more, and my mother is intimidated somehow.
This.

It's not fun when you find out your kids have become smarter then you.
I supose that's my mum too. Every argument, I out-logicify her and I always get "don't answer back," or "because I said so."
 

the.gill123

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How old are you? If you have come to this decision, then obviously you must be old enough to join up, so if your about 18, your mother might have just realised how old you are, and she dosen't want to loose that. So this might be her last chance to treat you like a kid, it's just a thought.
 

Apollo45

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Kakashi on crack said:
I've always had a very "I might not be right, but that doesn't make you right" attitude in which I don't mind being proved wrong, but will use every resource to make the opposer wrong in the process.
Obviously I don't know you, or how you go about doing this, but I have a few friends have essentially the same style you just described. I enjoy arguing as much as anyone, and don't mind being proved wrong in the slightest when I'm actually wrong. However, whenever I get in to an argument with those particular friends, they always seem to use the most ridiculous reasons to try and 'prove me wrong', going as far as basic word usage. Then when they have 'proved me wrong', they sit back and smile contentedly, like somehow my use of a single word made my entire argument wrong and correcting it, no matter how trivial, justified their entire reason for being. It doesn't matter that their argument was completely wrong in a fundamental way, just so long as mine isn't 100% correct.

This may not be you, and I am exaggerating a bit (not much, mind), but from the way you described it, it sounds essentially exactly like what you're doing. And when my friends do it, it drives me up a wall. It's probably the same with your mother. She's not intimidated because you're 'smarter', she's annoyed that you go to such lengths just so you don't 'lose', and doesn't want to make sure she uses perfect grammar and every single little facet of her argument is completely correct every time she argues with you.

Now, as I said, this may not be you, but from the way you described your argument style they sound identical. If it is, next time you're wrong, try accepting it gracefully instead of being a sore loser. Chances are she'll be more willing to argue with you in the future. For me, I've started either completely ignoring those friends whenever they try to start an argument or just straight up telling them they're wrong because they're idiots.
 

Kakashi on crack

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believer258 said:
It could also, possibly, be bitterness at the fact that these two things mean you're growing up and your mother is getting older. She doesn't like this. My mom hardly fails to mention how much she misses when I was a kid, and seems a little bit bitter about it. I hate that.
Yeah, probably doesn't help that I'll occasionally make a joke about her getting older.

the.gill123 said:
How old are you? If you have come to this decision, then obviously you must be old enough to join up, so if your about 18, your mother might have just realised how old you are, and she dosen't want to loose that. So this might be her last chance to treat you like a kid, it's just a thought.
I'll be 17 by the middle of next month. Been debating what I want to go into, and after a lot of thought of being an engineer, and looking over a good few career choices, I've decided that I want to go into the military fields regarding airforce engineering both for the logical aspect of it and because going into the military has always been something I've been interested in. (Don't want to be stuck working minimum wage like I was over the summer)

Doesn't help very much that my whole family+part of my extended family (four siblings, mom, dad, and a few of my aunts and uncles) are expressing their ire towards my decision XD
 

Kakashi on crack

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Apollo45 said:

I don't get down to basic grammar usage. If they can hold their own based on the facts provided, then I accept defeat gracefully unless I can find enough evidence to back up my answer again (or disprove theirs). The most it ever gets down to is the meaning of the facts provided, such as laws and such. (but arguing with people my age... the highschoolers I hang out with tend to not be able to form a logical arguement supporting their ideas)


I never claimed she's intimidated, like I (think I) said, for the most part I think that's just my ego talking for me. For that matter, I'm not claiming to be "smarter" than her. It's just that in arguements I can hold my own more and more, better and better over time.



Th3Ch33s3Cak3 said:
She's right. With a disrespectful attitude, you won't get in the army. She's just doing some mild preperations for your future career.


I'm not saying I'm respectful (I can be respectful when needed, but I'll admit I'm not the most respectful person) but I have to say... I know a few people who are in the army... And they are far from respectful. In fact, I'd go and say that the army people I've met personally are polar opposites, either being extremely respectful, or the most disrespectful people I've ever met.
 

the.gill123

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Kakashi on crack said:
I'll be 17 by the middle of next month. Been debating what I want to go into, and after a lot of thought of being an engineer, and looking over a good few career choices, I've decided that I want to go into the military fields regarding airforce engineering both for the logical aspect of it and because going into the military has always been something I've been interested in. (Don't want to be stuck working minimum wage like I was over the summer)

Doesn't help very much that my whole family+part of my extended family (four siblings, mom, dad, and a few of my aunts and uncles) are expressing their ire towards my decision XD
I'd suggest, sitting down with your parents, and asking them SPECIFICALLY what it is, that they don't like about you joinging up. Then when they've told you, show them what you found that convinced you, this is what you wanted to do. Then talk everything through with them, and maybe they will see how passionate you are about this, they might encourage you to do it.
Also make it perfectly clear, that its not the army, so you won't be on patrol in Afganistan, and it's not as if you will end up getting blown up with an IED. If that dosen't work, after you have completed your basic training, they will be too proud to care about their previous feelings about you joining up.

But the whole arguing back thing, I don't know, it really could be anything. It could be her wanting to stay smarter than you, her wanting to keep you young in her eyes, hormones, I know you don't want to think about this one, but it could be lack of sex. Maybe occasionally when you are discussing something, and you have a really good point to make, don't make it, let her have it. Or maybe try and talk about it when you are disussing the navy, if you are having a serious conversation with her, she might be more enclined to open up a bit.

I know there are a lot of maybes and suggestions here, but when I was a teenager, I remember that dealing with my parents was just trial and error, you've just got to find what work with your parents.

I know I've gone on a bit, but hopefully I have written something that will be of use to you in this post.
 

McMullen

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Kakashi on crack said:
I've always had a very "I might not be right, but that doesn't make you right" attitude in which I don't mind being proved wrong, but will use every resource to make the opposer wrong in the process.

As it stands, I've always had intellectual conversations (I.E. Respectful arguements) with my mother regarding many topics over the years. Over the summer, I announced that I have plans to try and join the U.S. airforce as an engineer. I've also been able to prove my mother wrong more and more in my intellectual arguements with her, and to be frank I think a bit of bitterness has formed.

Within the last couple months, whenever I try and make a proper response, or arguement regarding a topic, I've been getting the "don't talk back" response and if I push for why she won't engage in arguements with me any more, I'm getting the general "you're being disrespectful, if you act like that you'll never get into the army, etc." responses completely avoiding the questions I ask entirely.

So I want to ask, why do you think there has been a sudden change in persona? The only things that have really changed are that I can come up with better responses and she has gone back to college.

Personally my ego says that its because I'm getting smart enough to prove myself right more and more, and my mother is intimidated somehow. Another part of me for some reason thinks she's trying to convince me to not go into the military, but at the same time I don't see these as being completely valid points for the sudden change, so I wanted feedback from the escapist community regarding this matter.
On the one hand, I disagree with respecting parents by default, especially when "respect" is a contingency plan for when they get called on their bad or unreasonable judgement.

On the other hand, it will pass and by the time you're in your early twenties you likely won't care that it ever happened.

But your biggest problem is that the military and its officers expect you to agree to do what they say, or just plain agree with them, whether it makes sense or not, without discussion. If you join them and allow this tendency of yours to manifest itself, it will go badly for you.
 

Kakashi on crack

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the.gill123 said:
I'd suggest, sitting down with your parents, and asking them SPECIFICALLY what it is, that they don't like about you joinging up. Then when they've told you, show them what you found that convinced you, this is what you wanted to do. Then talk everything through with them, and maybe they will see how passionate you are about this, they might encourage you to do it.
Also make it perfectly clear, that its not the army, so you won't be on patrol in Afganistan, and it's not as if you will end up getting blown up with an IED. If that dosen't work, after you have completed your basic training, they will be too proud to care about their previous feelings about you joining up.

I know I've gone on a bit, but hopefully I have written something that will be of use to you in this post.
Nah, didn't go on too much, thank you for the insight :)

I've asked them about it and mostly they were afraid of me getting deployed... At which I explained that there was a very unlikely chance of that happening, but due to what I'm looking into if they did, they'd likely send me to the U.S. base in Italy or Germany. (If they even deployed me) Not sure how to explain it, I just... Really want to go into the military.



McMullen said:
On the one hand, I disagree with respecting parents by default, especially when "respect" is a contingency plan for when they get called on their bad or unreasonable judgement.

On the other hand, it will pass and by the time you're in your early twenties you likely won't care that it ever happened.

But your biggest problem is that the military and its officers expect you to agree to do what they say, or just plain agree with them, whether it makes sense or not, without discussion. If you join them and allow this tendency of yours to manifest itself, it will go badly for you.
My whole thing is that I don't have to necesary respect someone, but I'll respect their work, job, etc. I respect my parents as my parents, but my general respect for them (while I do generally respect them) is a whole other story. It's like how when I was working over the summer as a courtesy clerk, I didn't necesary respect some of my supervisors, but I respected them as being my supervisors, same with customers.

When I'm in any kind of serious work, job, etc. that's actually one thing I take pride in. I make sure to do what I'm told to do when I'm told to do it. I won't discuss it while working, but if I think there's a more efficient or effective way to go about doing something, I'll approach others later privately about the possibility.