"Talking To Pirates" With Cliff Harris

Andy Chalk

One Flag, One Fleet, One Cat
Nov 12, 2002
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"Talking To Pirates" With Cliff Harris


Cliff "cliffski" Harris, the man behind independent U.K. developer Positech Games [http://www.positech.co.uk], wanted to get a different perspective on PC game piracy - so he put the call out to PC game pirates.

Harris posted the question, "Why do people pirate my games?" on his blog [http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/], a move he described as "an honest attempt to get real answers to an important question." The response was massive, both through email and blog comments (his blog has been unavailable since at least yesterday, presumably the result of overwhelming feedback) and while the majority of responses addressed game piracy in general rather than Harris' games in particular, he called the effort "very worthwhile."

A small number of people offered "semi-political" responses, arguing against the validity of intellectual property and making claims about censorship and other points that Harris called "completely unconvincing, and to be honest, silly." He did say, however, that he was surprised by the small proportion of responses that took this stance. A much larger number of people claimed the problem was purely financial: "Even those who didn't cite cost as their main reason almost always mentioned it at some stage," he said. "A lot of anger was directed at the retail $60 games, and console games. People in Australia were especially annoyed about higher prices there."

Game quality was also a big point of complaint, as gamers expressed frustration over bugs, tech support and steep system requirements. "It was interesting to hear so many complaints about actual game design and gameplay. Not a single person said they had felt ripped off by a game due to substandard visuals or lack of content," Harris said. "The consensus was that games got boring too quickly, were too derivative, and had gameplay issues. Demos were widely considered to be too short and unrepresentative of the final product."

Other issues cited include the growing popularity of DRM, the availability (or lack thereof) of digital distribution and, from a small percentage of respondents, the simple fact that it's free and people can do it with virtual impunity.

Interestingly, Harris seems to have developed newfound sympathy for pirates as a result of these interactions, claiming that people who steal games just because they can "give the other 99% of pirates a bad name, and are the reason people don't listen to pirates." He's also decided to implement changes to his own business as a result, including the complete elimination of DRM schemes from his games, improvements in the length and quality of his demos, possible changes in his pricing and more, but he appears pessimistic about changing attitudes in the industry as a whole.

"I don't think the whole exercise will have much effect on the wider industry," Harris said. "Doubtless there will be more FPS games requiring mainframes to run them, more games with Securom [http://www.securom.com/], games with no demos, or games with all glitz and no gameplay. I wish this wasn't the case, and that the devs could listen more to their potential customers, and that the pirates could listen more to the devs rather than abusing them. I don't think that's going to happen."

"Talking To Pirates" can be read in its entirety on the Positech Games website [http://www.positech.co.uk/talkingtopirates.html].


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snuffler

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Jun 4, 2008
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YARRR. No seriously though, good to hear someones doing something about prices. $60 for a mainstream title is a little steep and granted I never pirate video games and never buy titles on the release date, I still find the prices steep. I bought the orange box only recently for STILL $50 in store not online.

Now what I'm waiting for is when companies such as autodesk finally make their products available to the general public. Currently 3ds max 2009 costs $3495.00, and by comparison Blender 3d is free. Granted autodesk includes far more features than Blender, I would be more than willing to pay for a copy of it if it weren't a product clearly designed to be available exclusively to video game development companies. Which also presents an issue as to why Video Games are so expensive. Licenses for those products are ridiculously priced. The root of the problem extends all the way back to Operating System manufacturers and if you want to get technical, hardware manufacturers.
 

meatloaf231

Old Man Glenn
Feb 13, 2008
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Well at least someone talked to us. THEM. I mean THEM. Yeah. Those dirty pirates.

In all seriousness though, I don't pirate games. I don't because game companies usually work pretty hard to get one game out every few years, and stealing them just isn't cool. With a company like EA, I would consider it, but most of EA's game are crap, so I wouldn't even grace them with a download.
 

NukaCola23

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Aug 12, 2008
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I call bullshit on the whole experiment. If the issues with gameplay, bugs, and limited demos were a real issue you would see a decline in console software sales and a rise in piracy there. Those issues exist there as well (plenty of flashy games without depth on the 360, and look at the bugs in MGO and the 360 itself). Piracy is rampant on the PC but it's possible, because it's easy, with self serving, guilt relieving, excuses coming after the fact.
 

stompy

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Jan 21, 2008
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It's nice to see a dev is listening the the public. Too bad he's not in a position to change the current mindset of the industry.
 

GoldenShadow

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May 13, 2008
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console piracy is much for difficult for the casual gamer. And when the casual gamer pirates a game, thats when the developers lose the most money. They will never eradicate the small sub group of real pirates.

The DRM on titles like Mass Effect, which only allows 3 activations is going to screw over paying customers more than people who download it illegally. So what do you expect people to do? DRM reinforces the will to pirate games. Your DRM will be cracked, and its existence is drive more people to not buy your product. I own Mass Effectand already activated my game twice. I have already preordered Spore. I am really nervous about the whole DRM thing on these games. I am sorta expecting them to make a patch to remove it completly eventually once the game becomes older when thousands upon thousands of people will be forced to call in a year from now due to reinstalling windows every 6 months

I'm not too upset about Mass Effect though, I am way more excited about Spore.
 

ElArabDeMagnifico

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Dec 20, 2007
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Hmm, it's odd seeing someone "negotiate with terrorists" - he practically treated the pirates like actual customers, and heck maybe if his sales increase and such because of this, then maybe we have been mean to the pirates.

Maybe.

BTW Khell, I know Crysis dissapointed you and hell I couldn't agree more with you once I got to that halfway point, but if you wanna get some more bang for your buck, my advice is to go get some mods!
 

man-man

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Jan 21, 2008
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I think the problem really stems from the fact that whatever the DRM scheme, no matter how locked down and strictly enforced the protection is, the process for obtaining a game (any game) for a pirate is the following

Step 1: Download the cracked version.
(There is no step 2)

Meanwhile the people who try to do the right thing get screwed over by protection that locks them out because they accidentally tripped a certain detection or went over an arbitrary limit or some such. Then they go download a crack to make their game work, and next time they don't bother buying the damn thing in the first place.

Once they accept that any DRM will be broken, and anyone determined to not pay will still be able to get to the product, things will become a lot saner - put in just enough protection to prevent casual, barrier-free sharing/copying so that the people who do want to do the right thing know what you don't want them doing, then stop. Hell, maybe just include a note with the disc that says "please don't burn anyone else a copy of this thing" - it'd be as effective as any other DRM.
 

stompy

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Jan 21, 2008
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man-man post=7.68431.635298 said:
Once they accept that any DRM will be broken, and anyone determined to not pay will still be able to get to the product, things will become a lot saner - put in just enough protection to prevent casual, barrier-free sharing/copying so that the people who do want to do the right thing know what you don't want them doing, then stop. Hell, maybe just include a note with the disc that says "please don't burn anyone else a copy of this thing" - it'd be as effective as any other DRM.
Hell, the note would be more effective, since sympathy is a lot more effective than the DRM we've got now. Especially in the age of torrents (hate the things) and LimeWire.

Why can't we go back to the age of CD-keys? Actually, I though a nice DRM is placing some real nice things, like art books and the like, as part of the retail version, making it so that pirates lose these things when they pirate the game. Incentives that help the loyal consumer, not punish them.
 

squirrelman42

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Dec 13, 2007
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It honestly depends on what is being pirated. At one point Rejected Cartoons was the most pirated film on the internet. It was an amazing short film, but he was trying to sell it for $10 for an 8 minute cartoon, which was ridiculous. If I had made that, I would have been proud that so many people were seeing my work instead of getting pissy like he did. Think of the resume cred that gets. The same goes for music. While the RIAA is getting ripped off, the bands aren't losing money at all because they get their cash from shows and merch.

As for games: The industry is trying to fight the symptoms, not the disease. The solution: make good games. They don't have to be epic in scope, they don't have to be the flashiest piece of techno junk ever. Know what the best game I've played in a long time is? Cave Story. If you don't know Cave Story, shame on you. Go pirate it and play it. For real, it's free. Cave Story is how all games should be made. Simple, elegant, and above all: fun. If the game is those things, the price of the games will drop because production costs will go down, people will pay to play it because they won't feel like they're getting ripped off.
 

Joeshie

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Oct 9, 2007
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It doesn't matter. Even if you do everything pirates want, they will still pirate your game because they can. All these excuses are just stupid reasons that pirates use to help themselves sleep at night.
 

Danny Ocean

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Jun 28, 2008
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Pirates may Pirate your games, but legitimate customers won't be forced to or inclined to. I have a friend who will download a game for free, and if he likes it he will buy it.

So really, just make good games, without DRM, and people will buy them.
 

Joeshie

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Oct 9, 2007
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HBrutusH post=7.68431.637868 said:
So really, just make good games, without DRM, and people will buy them.
Tell that to the guys at Iron Lore.

Oh wait, you probably can't since they had to disable their studio due largely to the pirating of their DRM-free and great game, Titan Quest.
 

ElArabDeMagnifico

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Dec 20, 2007
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Joeshie post=7.68431.637905 said:
HBrutusH post=7.68431.637868 said:
So really, just make good games, without DRM, and people will buy them.
Tell that to the guys at Iron Lore.

Oh wait, you probably can't since they had to disable their studio due largely to the pirating of their DRM-free and great game, Titan Quest.
It was more than just Piracy, they didn't lose money on titan quest and the guy who made that forum post/article was just a customer service guy with some theories.

Of course, since when does piracy not have a huge impact on PC game and devs? I'm surprised he's removing such basic DRM, hell, I'm surprised people actually complain about it but then again, I'm a success story.
 

Wargamer

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Apr 2, 2008
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I wonder if he got the usual excuse that I see used: if it can't be bought, it can be stolen.

For those who don't get it, this generally refers to older games. I seriously doubt anyone here could go down to their local store and buy a copy of Dungeon Keeper, or Red Alert, or Cannon Fodder. So, if nobody is willing to sell it to you, why not steal it? It's not like they've lost money...

The other is simple taste. I wouldn't ever bother buying Halo on the PC. If given the chance to download it for free, I would if I was in the mood for an FPS, but I'd never actually PAY for it. It just doesn't appeal enough to me.

I do agree entirely on games not being worth it. I paid £20 for Viking on the PS3 and I felt rather let down at the end. I knew, after beating it, I'd probably not play it again. On the other hand, I paid £20 for the Orange Box, and I feel very satisfied indeed with that! I paid £40 for MGS4 and that has been great fun. Good games I don't mind paying for, but too many just feel a total rip-off.

That, and half the PC games I do want to buy cause my PC to explode the moment I install them.