Teen Arrested for Home-Made "Hot or Not" List on Facebook

[Chickenlittle]

The list itself is public information and fine even on Facebook...but printing out hundreds of copies and handing them out at school? That's just downright unethical.

 

[Agayek]

That's not up to those abused to decide, it's up to the courts - you're getting the two mixed up.

And the courts are clearly siding with the victims in this case. I would imagine because one of the girls is somehow related to someone important.

 

[ViaGalactica]

You say that the details of their sexual endeavors should remain private, yet somehow he got that information. There's one of three possible reasons for this:

1) He made it up
2) He participated in it
3) He was told about it.

If 3, he did nothing wrong, as it was already more or less public information in the first place. If 2 (and I can't remember the last time I heard about a single high schooler scoring with 50 different women), he's simply more of a dick than he was. If 1, he should be sued for libel, not arrested.

Yeah, gossip spreads, people find out of others people's business. I get that. But just because I heard that some guy slept with some girl, doesn't mean I have to spread it, put it on paper, available for everyone to see with added commentary on how they are both giant slutwhores. Sure, he *can* do it. But it's not a slight thing. And he is not free of fault. He compiled a bunch of information which will hurt and haunt the reputation of these girls for longer than you can imagine.

He clearly did something wrong, something quite very wrong. It's not just about 'hurt feelings' like most people seem to imply. 'Slut-shaming' has far reaching consequences that go beyond making a girl feel bad. Which brings me to the second point...

If 2 or 3 apply to the situation (meaning it's true), then the fact of the matter is that "slut-shaming" (which I've never heard of outside of this thread), is a perfectly acceptable course of action. Not because they're sluts or not, but because the information he posted was true. If the girls can't take being labeled as something they are, maybe they should be something else.

Okay. Since you admit you've never heard of slut-shaming before I will sort of ignore the fact that you say it's an acceptable choice of action. (Though really, you don't think the word 'shaming' when attached to 'slut' might imply that 'slut-shaming' is not a good thing?)

Slut-shaming is not about hurting girl's feelings. It's not about getting someone offended. It's about shaming women for being openly sexual. I'm sure you are familiar with the double standard, right? Men who sleep with lots of women are studs and cool but women who sleep with lots of men are hussies and sluts. Slut-shaming leads to many, many, awful shit for women who have to face it. But because I'm too lazy to write it up, I'm just gonna quote some shit about it.

"A reputation acquired in adolescence can damage a young woman?s self-perception for years. She may become a target for other forms of harassment and even rape, since her peers see her as ?easy? and therefore not entitled to say ?no?. She may become sexually active with a large number of partners (even if she had not been sexually active before her reputation). Or she may shut down her sexual side completely, wearing baggy clothes and being unable to allow a boyfriend to even kiss her."
[Leora Tanenbaum (Harper Paperbacks, 2000.): Slut! Growing Up Female with a Bad Reputation, p. 229.]

"How many times has rape been discounted because a woman was deemed a slut? How many times are women called whores while their partners beat them? How often are women?s sexual histories used against them in workplace harassment cases? The sexual double standard is a lot more dangerous than we?d like to think.
[Jessica Valenti: He's a Stud, She's a Slut: The Sexual Double Standard]"

(More info at: http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2010/04/04/what-is-slut-shaming/)

This is why what he did is disgusting. Slut-shaming should never be acceptable course of action. Slut-shaming should not be just played off as 'boys will be boys'. It's damaging, not only to the victims but to women.

And these girls should not have to feel shame for being sexually active. They should not have to change their lifestyle to avoid having derogatory remarks thrown at them. People should not throw derogatory remarks at them - men and women, alike. Hell, even if they felt shame after they were called sluts and decided to change, people would never actually stop referring to them as such. Being labeled a 'slut' in school is the kind of shit that follows you for life.

Which is why this guy is beyond 'just a teenage boy who meant no harm', at best he is an ignorant and sexist idiot who did not understand exactly how he would hurt these girls. At worst he is the worst kind of misoginist who did it with the intention of hurting and shaming these women.

The fact of the matter is, though, that nothing he did was illegal, and therefore the cops should never have become involved.

I was never arguing about the legality behind the police intervention. I was arguing about the disgusting dismissal his asshattery was getting.

I agree with you that his actions shouldn't be dismissed out of hand, but the reaction is far and away more than what it merited.

Except it isn't, not entirely. Again, whether he deserves jail time or not, I don't know. I'll take your word for it that it doesn't. But getting expelled does not seem like that harsh of a punishment, in my opinion.

 

[Kimarous]

Still, dick move that this was, I'm not sure if it warrants involvement by the police. Then again, I know nothing about law and even less about American law (personally being Canadian).

 

[spartan231490]

I was bullied mercilessly for the greater part of 6 years, and so were many of my friends. I spent more time at school being picked on than not. That is exactly how I know that words can't hurt you. yeah yeah yeah, waaaaa, my feelings got hurt. A lot. I got over it because at the end of the day, nothing they say means anything about me or anyone else. I am what and who I am, and I can tell you for sure that bullying never left any permanent scars on anyone with enough maturity to fill a thimble.

Good for you, your personal experience really doesn't apply here in any meaningful way; in fact I'd argue it's clouded your judgement regarding the way people react to abuse. This entire argument pretty much stems to "people shouldn't complain because I say so and if they do they aren't mature".

Again, it doesn't work like that. People react differently; and in this case some of the people involved were offended at the level of abuse received; your argument fails to take into account basic human actions - especially those of school children - and extends to a level of letting people get away with abuse because everyone must feel the same way you do.

It's not just my experience, but the experience of several of my friends. I really don't care if you agree with me. Or if you call me inaccurate or deluded. It is a sign of maturity to have a internally located locus of power. Do you know what that means? it's a psychology term meaning that you derive your self-opinion from yourself. Your own accomplishments. On the other hand, it is a sign of immaturity to have an externally located locus of power. That means that you derive your self-worth from other people's reaction to you.

This is a something that most bullies have. Without the validation of the approving crowd, they don't feel that they have any self-worth. They bully others to gain this validation. People who react to verbal abuse poorly share this trait. Someone with an internally located locus of power would just shrug it off as another's opinion, and therefore has no impact on their feelings of self-worth, and therefore does minimal damage to their all important feelings. AKA they are mature.

This is my opinion, I hope it's a little better explained now. If you still don't agree, I just don't care.

 

[Mr.Petey]

The list itself is public information and fine even on Facebook...but printing out hundreds of copies and handing them out at school? That's just downright unethical.

This is pretty much the core of the issue here. No matter how people perceive it, the fact remains that how he went about doing this was dishonourable, dirty and deprived. I don't see how it could be considered a "bit of a laugh" when it gets this depraved

 

[D_987]

That's not up to those abused to decide, it's up to the courts - you're getting the two mixed up.

And the courts are clearly siding with the victims in this case. I would imagine because one of the girls is somehow related to someone important.

I have no knowledge of the US courts, so I can't take up argument with your other post - but this is laughable.

 

[Canid117]

Under the god damn US Constitution and all of the laws that followed. There isn't a single law that was violated, except debatably libel, which isn't a criminal case and requires 0 police involvement.

Then why was he charged with disorderly conduct? Perhaps there's more to the case than the limited Escapist article is letting on?

Also, nice try with the murder strawman. That's a completely separate ballgame, and you know it.

It's merely a way to prove how flawed your basic argument is.

Disorderly conduct is used when no actual legal statute has been broken but the police want to arrest you anyway. Usually it is used to arrest people who are drunk in public or something similar so they can be thrown in jail for the night to sober up. This is a... different type of application that some would say abuses the law. And there is a vast difference between killing someone and passing around a list of "HURR HURR I THINK DIS GIRL HAS A PURTY VAGINA." Is the kid a dick? Yes. Has he broken a law? Not quite. Do the police have the right to arrest him? That is very debatable.

 

[Dimitriov]

The list itself is public information and fine even on Facebook...but printing out hundreds of copies and handing them out at school? That's just downright unethical.

This is pretty much the core of the issue here. No matter how people perceive it, the fact remains that how he went about doing this was dishonourable, dirty and deprived. I don't see how it could be considered a "bit of a laugh" when it gets this depraved

You know that the post you are quoting is sarcastic right?

 

[fgdfgdgd]

It's called defamation of character, a serious and chargeable offense as it could ultimately effect (most likely damaging) the employment opportunities of the defamed parties, that is why it's not stupid, farm-ville is stupid, double standards are stupid, petroleum companies spending billions on anti-climate change scare tactic propaganda is stupid; punishing people that damage someones ability to be gainfully employed isn't stupid.

True, but defamation is a civil offense. It's simply not punishable by jail time. At worst, they could fine him for whatever damages could be caused by his list. Since they are in high school, the potential damages is likely to be relatively low, on a per-case basis.

Actually arresting him is ridiculous and a complete overreaction, not to mention a violation of the very laws you're arguing for.

Actually depending on state law, it is a criminal offense in 17 states and 2 territories, though interestingly enough there isn't a federal defamation law. And it never said he was facing jail time, just that he was in custody and

"The subject was found to be responsible for an offensive list," said Oak Park Police Detective Commander. LaDon Reynolds. "Based on the evidence, the juvenile offender was charged with disorderly conduct and referred to [juvenile] court."

He will more than likely get a slap on the wrist as a first time offender then crushed into the dirt in civil lawsuits.

 

[D_987]

This is my opinion, I hope it's a little better explained now. If you still don't agree, I just don't care.

And yet you care enough to explain to me all this nonsense for which I take little interest in?

At the end of the day you completely missed the point of my post, and went on a rant about maturity and immaturity; which, if you re-read my post, was something I made no mention of. Instead I made light of your poor understanding of human emotions and the fact other people do not react in the same manner as yourself. I made no mention of maturity; something that is subjective in of itself and cannot be limited in the manner you have attempted.

 

[Agayek]

Yeah, gossip spreads, people find out of others people's business. I get that. But just because I heard that some guy slept with some girl, doesn't mean I have to spread it, put it on paper, available for everyone to see with added commentary on how they are both giant slutwhores. Sure, he *can* do it. But it's not a slight thing. And he is not free of fault. He compiled a bunch of information which will hurt and haunt the reputation of these girls for longer than you can imagine.

He clearly did something wrong, something quite very wrong. It's not just about 'hurt feelings' like most people seem to imply. 'Slut-shaming' has far reaching consequences that go beyond making a girl feel bad. Which brings me to the second point...

My point was that he did not violate the law with the list. Was it a mean-spirited and all-around bad idea? Yes, it most certainly was, and he should be punished for it. It did not violate the law, however, and therefore the legal system should never gotten involved.

Okay. Since you admit you've never heard of slut-shaming before I will sort of ignore the fact that you say it's an acceptable choice of action. (Though really, you don't think the word 'shaming' when attached to 'slut' might imply that 'slut-shaming' is not a good thing?)

Slut-shaming is not about hurting girl's feelings. It's not about getting someone offended. It's about shaming women for being openly sexual. I'm sure you are familiar with the double standard, right? Men who sleep with lots of women are studs and cool but women who sleep with lots of men are hussies and sluts. Slut-shaming leads to many, many, awful shit for women who have to face it. But because I'm too lazy to write it up, I'm just gonna quote some shit about it.

So basically what you're saying is that we should all never be called a mean name and anyone who does should be clapped in irons?

I'm not saying what he did was right or just. All I am saying is that he did not violate any laws. However the school decided to deal with him should have been the end of it. Since the school decided to expel him, the whole debacle should have ended there. The police should never have gotten involved in what amounts to "HE CALLED ME NAMES!".

This is why what he did is disgusting. Slut-shaming should never be acceptable course of action. Slut-shaming should not be just played off as 'boys will be boys'. It's damaging, not only to the victims but to women.

And these girls should not have to feel shame for being sexually active. They should not have to change their lifestyle to avoid having derogatory remarks thrown at them. People should not throw derogatory remarks at them - men and women, alike. Hell, even if they felt shame after they were called sluts and decided to change, people would never actually stop referring to them as such. Being labeled a 'slut' in school is the kind of shit that follows you for life.

Which is why this guy is beyond 'just a teenage boy who meant no harm', at best he is an ignorant and sexist idiot who did not understand exactly how he would hurt these girls. At worst he is the worst kind of misoginist who did it with the intention of hurting and shaming these women.

The fact of the matter is, if people are not secure enough in who they are to realize when someone is lying about them, they deserve to feel bad about it. Be who you want to be, and fuck the rest of the world.

You are right though, this idiot is far past a kid who meant no harm. It was malicious, and it was foolish. It was not illegal though, and that's why I'm taking umbrage at him being arrested.

The kid should have been punished, no question there. The problem is the punishment far outweighs the offense.

Except it isn't, not entirely. Again, whether he deserves jail time or not, I don't know. I'll take your word for it that it doesn't. But getting expelled does not seem like that harsh of a punishment, in my opinion.

I agree with you here, he should definitely have been punished. Letting people get away with this sort of thing is disgusting. That doesn't mean police were needed though.

 

[D_987]

Do the police have the right to arrest him? That is very debatable.

Thank you for explaining, in this case though I do feel that "arresting" the person is for the best - the racial comments made to singled out individuals is deserving of a charge on its own - and since the person in question will receive next to nothing; most likely a warning at best - he learns he should not behave in such a manner [that apparently being the third list in as many years the individual had made].

 

[Agayek]

I have no knowledge of the US courts, so I can't take up argument with your other post - but this is laughable.

It's really not, unfortunately. Money speaks, especially in the US. If you know someone wealthy and/or connected, you can get away with just about anything, up to and including manipulating federal courts and legislation.

 

[klausaidon]

This is the stupidest thing in the world. Arresting someone for things they posted? What a great use of money and time. Since when is talking trash about people a serious offense? I am amazed that they actually arrested him, I should be in jail as well then.

This has actually been illegal for awhile. I don't remember the details of the original story, but I believe this sort of stunt was made illegal when a girl committed suicide over some stuff that was posted online about her. It's something about internet bullying, and I don't know the full extent of the law, but I'm guessing this guy's stunt broke said law. Just regular bullying is actually illegal too, I think, so just handing out the list around school is enough to get arrested, let alone posting it online.

So ya, it's illegal because some of the girls might kill themselves if their feelings are hurt. Stupid, I know, but teenagers are stupid.

 

[D_987]

I have no knowledge of the US courts, so I can't take up argument with your other post - but this is laughable.

It's really not, unfortunately. Money speaks, especially in the US. If you know someone wealthy and/or connected, you can get away with just about anything, up to and including manipulating federal courts and legislation.

No it's laughable because you're so quick to claim your views are not effected by anything other than the facts offered to you; yet you're also incredibly quick to make up reasoning, with no evidence at all, as to why, what you feel is unjust, has occurred.

 

[Agayek]

No it's laughable because you're so quick to claim your views are not effected by anything other than the facts offered to you; yet you're also incredibly quick to make up reasoning, with no evidence at all, as to why, what you feel is unjust, has occurred.

I have personally seen evidence of corruption in a number of places both in and out of the government, so I'm not really sure where you're going with this.

I'll admit, I likely exaggerated a bit with the federal court and legislation thing, but I would be greatly surprised to find out that all those nice gifts so many people make to Congressmen doesn't influence their final decisions.

When all's said and done, stating that the US government is at least partially corrupt is not an illogical conclusion with the information available to the public. Is it a certainty? Not in the least, but it's still plausible.

 

[Canid117]

Do the police have the right to arrest him? That is very debatable.

Thank you for explaining, in this case though I do feel that "arresting" the person is for the best - the racial comments made to singled out individuals is deserving of a charge on its own - and since the person in question will receive next to nothing; most likely a warning at best - he learns he should not behave in such a manner [that apparently being the third list in as many years the individual had made].

According to US law he cant actually be arrested for anything he said as long as it did not bring any physical harm to others. Racism is protected under the Federal constitution as well as state level constitutions. The debate comes from the passing the list around and acting like an idiot in public. Was it disruptive? Yes but was it disruptive enough to warrant a charge? If so then pretty much every high schooler could be arrested because this is common behavior. It is very likely the police would much rather be ignoring this but have been harassed by parents to take action. I don't know that for a fact but it seems likely. Police often don't like to involve themselves in high school drama bullshit when they have better things to do.

This is the stupidest thing in the world. Arresting someone for things they posted? What a great use of money and time. Since when is talking trash about people a serious offense? I am amazed that they actually arrested him, I should be in jail as well then.

This has actually been illegal for awhile. I don't remember the details of the original story, but I believe this sort of stunt was made illegal when a girl committed suicide over some stuff that was posted online about her. It's something about internet bullying, and I don't know the full extent of the law, but I'm guessing this guy's stunt broke said law. Just regular bullying is actually illegal too, I think, so just handing out the list around school is enough to get arrested, let alone posting it online.

So ya, it's illegal because some of the girls might kill themselves if their feelings are hurt. Stupid, I know, but teenagers are stupid.

As I recall that law was shot down in the courts for its unconstitutionality. It would also be a ***** to enforce even at a federal level if it was still in effect.

 

[thecoreyhlltt]

This is the stupidest thing in the world. Arresting someone for things they posted? What a great use of money and time. Since when is talking trash about people a serious offense? I am amazed that they actually arrested him, I should be in jail as well then.

exactly! i mean i don't think it was smart or at all a Nice thing to do, but come on. the parents are more than willing to ruin this kids life for slander! he was wrong to do what he did, but i feel bad for him.

 

[fundayz]

This kid is a comedic genius! "Women are the future. We must stop them now!" "The Amazing Bisexual" Oh god that's too good. A jerk move that obviously classifies as harassment but that is downright hilarious (for those not involved).