Teen Arrested for Home-Made "Hot or Not" List on Facebook

D_987

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Agayek said:
I have personally seen evidence of corruption in a number of places both in and out of the government, so I'm not really sure where you're going with this.
You're missing the point...I'm referring to your previous statements; yet here you made up something [in this case a link between the victims and the courts] with no evidence at all to back it up - something you claimed you would not entertain the notion that there's more to this without evidence; here you make it up.

Regardless I'm done with this debate; arguing over whether he is deserving or not is entirely pointless and this argument has defiantly run its course.

Canid117 said:
If so then pretty much every high schooler could be arrested because this is common behavior.
It's up to them to decide how extreme the case is - it's not everyday [well it might well be given the population but you know what I mean] somebody is expelled, especially for something that sparked public interest in that it made news headlines as this incident did.
 

Ulixes Dimon

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Kukulski said:
I don't know how the US law works, but what crime exactly did he commit? I agree that it can be regarded as slander, but this offence is under the jurisdiction of the civil court when a victim sues the offender in my coutry. Arresting him makes no fucking sense to me.
He didn't commit any crime. It was a derogatory and unkind thing to do but arresting him for it is the same as arresting someone who displeases you... Illegal and frightening.
 

HellspawnCandy

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Oct 29, 2009
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Andy Chalk said:
According to reports, after distributing the list at his former school the student addressed an "impromptu gathering" of cheering students, during which he danced around and warned that "women are the future, unless we stop them now."
OH GREAT MESSIAH TEACH US MORE!
What's the point in these kinds of things?
 

the_Butler

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Apr 14, 2010
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I live in this area, and its really all a joke.

They brought some of the girls on the news and they talked about how they felt demoralized and labeled and blah blah.

Yet, they didn't block their faces out or change their voice or any of that fancy TV junk. So they were SOOOO hurt to get their 5 minutes of fame on the news.
 

Royas

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Apr 25, 2008
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While his behavior is clearly deplorable, I can't see how it could be illegal. Disgusting, but protected by the first amendment. We don't get to just protect the speech we like, after all, it's there to protect the speech we don't like.

I don't see this getting too far if he has even a half-assed lawyer.
 

Tddawg25

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Apr 4, 2009
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Who cares that much? Yeah expel him and all but get the police involved over a stupid list, i forgot that what ever this kid said was law. Realize that kid is an annoying tool, laugh at him when he gets kick out of high school and move on if you ask me.
 

Pentazemin

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Dec 30, 2010
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Glad to see that everyone in this thread is so eager to jump on the ignorance bandwagon. No one here seems to consider the fact that what this kid did was beyond some personal joke; without even thinking of the consequences of his actions, he openly destroyed the reputations of dozens of other students. Besides blatantly objectifying women, which is a disgusting occurance that many people ignorantly disregard, this kid obviously caused much distress to the people he target. Unfortunately, most of you do not understand that this could be classified as harassment, an act which certainly deserves punishment beyond meager suspension from school. It saddens me that so many men, especially in this thread, are still so chauvinistic as to support the actions of this kid without thinking of how his female victims were unfairly attacked with such a terrible act. And before someone blindly dismissed me as some female feminist, I am a man, and my understanding of and experience with women is not at all discreditable.
 

Dastardly

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Apr 19, 2010
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Andy Chalk said:
But the obvious question is, what other evidence is there to gather? Unless there's a lot more to this case than is being reported, what we've got here is a three month police investigation into some idiot kid's home-made "Hot or Not" list on Facebook. I'm sure there wasn't a crack squad of Chicago's finest working the case 24 hours a day but even so, isn't this all a bit much for a stupid high school stunt?

According to reports, after distributing the list at his former school the student addressed an "impromptu gathering" of cheering students, during which he danced around and warned that "women are the future, unless we stop them now."

Sources: MyFoxChicago.com [http://www.wlsam.com/Article.asp?id=2182903]


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The school was right to expel the kid, no question whatsoever. I think it's fair for the girls who have been publicly slandered for no reason to be entitled to some damages, and the kid deserves a public flogging.

Seriously, people. The outrage isn't over the fact that he made "some list." The outrage is on behalf of the children he has slandered and sexually objectified to get some laughs. Sorry, but that's worthy of some pretty goddamned harsh punishments. Don't any of your have sisters or anything?
 

Ulixes Dimon

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AnteGravity said:
This pretty much demonstrates why Feminism is still strongly needed in Western society. Treating young girls like grades of meat and rating them on their sexual characteristics like it was the only thing they would ever be worth is so grotesquely abhorrent.

It definitely warrants legal action. This idiot caused a great deal of grievous mental and emotional anguish on so many of these girls publicly. That kind of behavior can not be condoned by any authority that hopes to remain credible.
I understand you find the ratings insulting and offensive but you have to understand why you CANNOT arrest someone for it. Even though he is a misogynist bigot this isint right because it establishes the practice of punishing people for speaking their OPINIONS. If this continues to be allowed what would stop people with radical ideas about politics or spirituality or sex from being incriminated because of "disorderly conduct." Despite this I don't know all the details, he may have actually done something illegal. Also, I know school guidelines basically take away all your rights and he did sexually harass students at school by handing out the lists I'm not sure it warrants an arrest.
 

PureIrony

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Aug 12, 2010
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You know, I heard a pretty funny joke yesterday. Someone told me that the purpose of prison was to keep dangerous criminals away from the general public. Ain't that hilarious?

Because, anyone doing something that was just incredibly dickish could just be slapped with a fine and not waste tax money or turn someone into a criminal with a complete hatred for the justice system.
 

Dastardly

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Royas said:
While his behavior is clearly deplorable, I can't see how it could be illegal. Disgusting, but protected by the first amendment. We don't get to just protect the speech we like, after all, it's there to protect the speech we don't like.

I don't see this getting too far if he has even a half-assed lawyer.
This is defamation of character, which is in no way protected. This isn't just a list describing girls and saying, "Wow, she's hot." This is a list that includes things like the girls' alleged sexual activity. You can't publish a list of the people you claim Suzy Jenkins slept with and call it "free speech."

There are clear legal tests for whether something qualifies as "protected speech." This isn't even remotely close to the outermost fringes of the lines that have been drawn.
 

Canid117

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D_987 said:
Canid117 said:
If so then pretty much every high schooler could be arrested because this is common behavior.
It's up to them to decide how extreme the case is - it's not everyday [well it might well be given the population but you know what I mean] somebody is expelled, especially for something that sparked public interest in that it made news headlines as this incident did.

Media attention does not increase the severity of the crime. He should be judged for what he did and not for how many news vans parked outside of his school for twenty minutes. Should he have been expelled? Yes what he did was wrong but should he be arrested? Not unless I can be arrested for telling someone I don't like to fuck off. Even if the charges stick though he is just going to be sent to juvy for like two weeks. This whole affair was almost certainly a waste of Police time.

Dastardly said:
Royas said:
While his behavior is clearly deplorable, I can't see how it could be illegal. Disgusting, but protected by the first amendment. We don't get to just protect the speech we like, after all, it's there to protect the speech we don't like.

I don't see this getting too far if he has even a half-assed lawyer.
This is defamation of character, which is in no way protected. This isn't just a list describing girls and saying, "Wow, she's hot." This is a list that includes things like the girls' alleged sexual activity. You can't publish a list of the people you claim Suzy Jenkins slept with and call it "free speech."

There are clear legal tests for whether something qualifies as "protected speech." This isn't even remotely close to the outermost fringes of the lines that have been drawn.
Defamation of character not something the police can arrest you for. The individuals on this list could sue for Libel but they would have to prove that the claims were false and it is highly likely that not all of them were. This means that the plaintiffs would have to reveal and prove their sexual history and why do that when it can remain a simple rumor spread by some asshat with a printer?
 

Hero in a half shell

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Dec 30, 2009
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The kids an egotistical idiot, not a criminal. He needs a snookerball filled sock to the scrotum, not a criminal record.
 

ViaGalactica

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Agayek said:
My point was that he did not violate the law with the list. Was it a mean-spirited and all-around bad idea? Yes, it most certainly was, and he should be punished for it. It did not violate the law, however, and therefore the legal system should never gotten involved.
Can't argue that. (Mostly 'cause I don't know your laws.)


Agayek said:
So basically what you're saying is that we should all never be called a mean name and anyone who does should be clapped in irons?

I'm not saying what he did was right or just. All I am saying is that he did not violate any laws. However the school decided to deal with him should have been the end of it. Since the school decided to expel him, the whole debacle should have ended there. The police should never have gotten involved in what amounts to "HE CALLED ME NAMES!".
Not, not entirely. I'm not saying you are not ~allowed~ to call other names. That'd make me a rather big hypocrite as I've been referring to the asshole with...well, the word asshole. What's wrong is not that someone is calling others names, what's wrong is ~why~ they do it. Calling someone an asshole for doing something legitimately rude/mean/offensive should be fine. Calling someone names for being gay, black, hispanic, lesbian, bisexual, etc. is what's fucked up. Calling a woman a 'slut' is not wrong because they are using a mean word - but because they are shaming women for something that is praised in men. They are shaming women for taking control of their sexuality. They are shaming them for not comforming to patriarchal approved sexual behavior. That's why it's wrong and that's why the insult is so common.

Why do you think 'slut' is so commonly tossed around to women? You don't need to be a 'slut' to be called one or be harrassed because people think you are one. Tossing that word ends up only damaging women, telling them that their behavior is and forever will be unnacceptable because only the men can do such things.

This goes beyond 'he called me names'. If we lived in a perfect society where women and men had the same social standing then it would just be that. But, because we live in a place where the power is clearly unbalanced that is not the case. Believe it or not, this is an act of oppression towards these girls. For being openly sexual - or perhaps not even openly - someone humilliated and shamed them. (And still some people seem to side with the bastard.)

Agayek said:
The fact of the matter is, if people are not secure enough in who they are to realize when someone is lying about them, they deserve to feel bad about it. Be who you want to be, and fuck the rest of the world.
It's not always that easy. Some people can grow up to be immune to harrasment. Some people simply cannot deal with it. It's not because they are insecure, or because they are weak. Sometimes the pressure and the harrassment can get so hard they can't escape it. And regardless of how tough we think we are there's always shit that gets to you.

(Anecdata time: I'm a bi girl living in a backwards country. I never actually came out to anyone, though I was dating this girl. We kept our shit quiet, so as to not get attention, but one asshole eventually found out. He told everyone. And though it was never hard to ignore the random idiot who yells '******' in your direction, shit piles up. I was never insecure about who I was. I was able to deal with the shit at first(which included minor shit like the name calling and the constant shove.) But shit escalated. Shit always escalates. And what started with a rumor spread by some asshole ended up with me being stripped down to my panties by four dudes who wanted to "turn the lesbian slut straight again." And I even owned that shit. I didn't let it get to me. But then hearing the entire school chanting '******' at me in some award ceremony, shit that stung. And that stung so bad I had to fucking leave town. Yeah, cool story, sis. I know.)

What I'm saying is, that whole saying "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" or whatever, is not entirely true. Sometimes words hurt, far more than actions. And sometimes they are just what someone needs to be sent over the edge. Should we censor people? Ban words? Fuck no. But we should not act like calling a teenage girl a 'slut' or a gay person a 'fag' or a black person a '******' is harmless. There's weight in those words that could easily break the morale, courage and will a kid might have.


Agayek said:
You are right though, this idiot is far past a kid who meant no harm. It was malicious, and it was foolish. It was not illegal though, and that's why I'm taking umbrage at him being arrested.
And that's fine. Honestly, if this is not actually illegal then the police should not have been involved. The Law is Law, it doesn't need to be fair, it needs to be followed. I can respect you defending that he does not merit any kind of judicial punishment.

What I cannot respect is, what I've said before, the flippant attitude this originally received. (Not saying you were the one dismissing it, though.)
 

interspark

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Dec 20, 2009
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i think it's disgusting how he degraded those students like that, he got expelled and he deserved it, and to be quite honest, he should have seen it coming
 

Iron Lightning

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Dastardly said:
Royas said:
While his behavior is clearly deplorable, I can't see how it could be illegal. Disgusting, but protected by the first amendment. We don't get to just protect the speech we like, after all, it's there to protect the speech we don't like.

I don't see this getting too far if he has even a half-assed lawyer.
This is defamation of character, which is in no way protected. This isn't just a list describing girls and saying, "Wow, she's hot." This is a list that includes things like the girls' alleged sexual activity. You can't publish a list of the people you claim Suzy Jenkins slept with and call it "free speech."

There are clear legal tests for whether something qualifies as "protected speech." This isn't even remotely close to the outermost fringes of the lines that have been drawn.
Defamation is a civil matter. You can't be arrested for libel or slander. You can, however, be sued for them. If these girls wanted to bring a class action suit against the man then I would approve. However, no one has any right to arrest him nor do they have a right to imprison him over a civil matter. Defamation is protected speech insofar as that it's not a criminal offense.