Texas Slated To 100% Reopen Next Week. We're All Gonna Die.

tstorm823

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Man, republicans really are all copypastes of each other. Make no attempt to address any of the claims in the quote I posted, attempt a single-line gotcha that relies on extremely personal views and walk away feeling like you've accomplished something. And then respond to other posts with the usual whataboutism, pivoting and generic responses you all parrot like NPCs with limited lines of dialogue.
This post wasn't worth your time to make.
Whataboutism.

Republicans have been selling weaponry to invading despots for 8 years, and have drastically increased military involvement in various wars. They lied through their teeth to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. They intensified drone strikes in East Africa.

Democrats also have a good deal of blood on their hands. That hardly absolves the Republicans, or gives credence to the idea that they give a toss about civilians in foreign countries.
Ok, but what is there to drone strike in East Africa? Militias that rape and pillage the civilians? Who didn't Republicans like in the Middle East? Saddam Hussein who gassed his own civilians? Opposing these people is evidence of giving a toss about civilians in foreign countries. Those actions are not the same as Woodrow Wilson or Lyndon Johnson.
 

Phoenixmgs

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I understand anecdotally it's easy to dismiss the severity of the disease and say "because I haven't personally experienced the worst of it or because I have seen minimal impact, it must not be that big a deal," but the reality remains the entire WORLD shut down to some effect for a reason and that same world is still suffering from it; we're in the infancy of getting past it. I think a couple more months of caution is doable, but Abbott doesn't think so while simultaneously fixing his face to blame anyone else (conveniently Biden) when a likely uptick in infection cases happens; does no one else find that suspicious? Rescinding precautions and in the same breath passing blame for the immediate future when shit might hit the fan? I personally wouldn't put my chips "on red" when the guy who's telling me I should do so is prepping me to blame the house with the high likelihood of the ball falling on black.

My "We're All Gonna Die" in the thread title is hyperbolic. I don't think we're going to fall back into "total lockdown" status again. I just think it's unwise, with no definite plan in place, to re-open when the vaccines are still brand new, are scarce and the disease still killing people by the hundreds daily.
I do work across 9 major hospitals and walk the floors in most of the departments everyday like ICU and ER. I know what the pandemic "looks like". We're totally not gonna fall back to total lockdown again if we didn't during the holidays. We are not in the infancy of getting past it, it's gonna be full on over in a few months. At least a 3rd of the population already got infected, NPR says 16% got vaccinated, which means ~50% of people are good already, now we're doing 2 million shots a day. If we're not in the Endgame yet, then we're at worst at Infinity War right now.
 

Silvanus

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Ok, but what is there to drone strike in East Africa? Militias that rape and pillage the civilians? Who didn't Republicans like in the Middle East? Saddam Hussein who gassed his own civilians? Opposing these people is evidence of giving a toss about civilians in foreign countries. Those actions are not the same as Woodrow Wilson or Lyndon Johnson.
The euphemistically-termed "collateral damage" in each of these engagements was grotesque. Funnily enough, I don't remember a thing done to minimise it... in fact, Republican legislators fought tooth and nail to make sure military personnel would be untouchable by legal proceedings, essentially free to do what they want. And then, surprise surprise, we get audio recordings of US soldiers treating foreign civilian lives with gleeful disdain, or joking about killing them. And what happens? Fuck all. No reform. Endless efforts to shield them from accusation or prosecution.

Its also quite notable that you had to go back 60 years or so to dredge up Johnson, whereas the most I need to go back is 30... with other examples (drone strikes intensified, weaponry sold to despots, used to target civilians) from within the last 8.
 
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tstorm823

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Its also quite notable that you had to go back 60 years or so to dredge up Johnson, whereas the most I need to go back is 30...
I chose to go there. I did not have to. Obama went super hard on drone strikes, and then people pretended Trump expanded drone strikes because we dont have actual numbers for Obamas first 6-7 years.
 

Xprimentyl

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Looks like it was a whole bunch of nothing...

View attachment 3541

View attachment 3542
Honestly, that minimal difference (in just over a two week period, mind you) between then and now, even with the Governor allowing all restrictions to end, is because many businesses chose not to re-opened without restriction, opting instead to still be safe and maintain their own limited capacities and mask requirements. Atop that, many individuals still aren't going out, opting to limit their exposure and not going out like the virus isn't a threat; a lot of people are awaiting the vaccine which just recently (as in the last couple of days) became available for anyone over the age of 15 and not just high-risk people.

So yeah, the governor wasn't proven "right" in his methodology; the people were just proven to be not as "dumb" as he allowed.
 
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tstorm823

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So yeah, the governor wasn't proven "right" in his methodology; the people were just proven to be not as "dumb" as he allowed.
What is the distinction here? Restrictions were removed to allow people to decide appropriate behavior for themselves, and then they did. The only way these things are mutually exclusive is if you think the governor was actively trying to kill people.
 

Xprimentyl

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What is the distinction here? Restrictions were removed to allow people to decide appropriate behavior for themselves, and then they did. The only way these things are mutually exclusive is if you think the governor was actively trying to kill people.
The distinction is recklessness. You can be reckless without trying to intentionally kill people. Allowing a full re-opening without then adequate access to a vaccine was reckless; the people are playing it safe despite his decision to allow them not to.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Honestly, that minimal difference (in just over a two week period, mind you) between then and now, even with the Governor allowing all restrictions to end, is because many businesses chose not to re-opened without restriction, opting instead to still be safe and maintain their own limited capacities and mask requirements. Atop that, many individuals still aren't going out, opting to limit their exposure and not going out like the virus isn't a threat; a lot of people are awaiting the vaccine which just recently (as in the last couple of days) became available for anyone over the age of 15 and not just high-risk people.

So yeah, the governor wasn't proven "right" in his methodology; the people were just proven to be not as "dumb" as he allowed.
I never said that removing all restrictions AND ALL PEOPLE following no restrictions would result in the same outcome. I said basically what you just said and why it didn't matter what the governor did. Also, Indiana has had no restrictions in restaurants for awhile (or restaurants don't follow capacity limits) and their curve mirrors Illinois with tons of restrictions. It's obvious restrictions aren't doing much anymore as people have already decided what they're gonna do or a lot of the restrictions don't really make much difference like if people can't go to the restaurant/bar, they'll hang out with friends privately anyway. So, it's basically businesses just losing money for no real gain at this point.

And, businesses can do what they want like you said, and people can continue masking and social distancing too. I doubt the people that are worried about getting infected will see the new guidelines as "covid is gone, everything back to normal". In the end, I doubt it does much of anything.
 
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Xprimentyl

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I never said that removing all restrictions AND ALL PEOPLE following no restrictions would result in the same outcome. I said basically what you just said and why it didn't matter what the governor did. Also, Indiana has had no restrictions in restaurants for awhile (or restaurants don't follow capacity limits) and their curve mirrors Illinois with tons of restrictions. It's obvious restrictions aren't doing much anymore as people have already decided what they're gonna do or a lot of the restrictions don't really make much difference like if people can't go to the restaurant/bar, they'll hang out with friends privately anyway. So, it's basically businesses just losing money for no real gain at this point.
And I'm not overtly disagreeing with you; I'm simply disagreeing that the governor's decision when he said "you don't have to be careful AT ALL anymore" wasn't ill timed and irresponsible; just because it "probably wouldn't make a huge difference" doesn't change that fact. I liken it to him perhaps removing speed limits entirely; yes, most people will still drive reasonably safely, but not having limits to mitigate the risk of those (if few) wanting to drive 90mph through schools zones with abandon is just reckless.

As far as business go, many were hurt with the strict closures early on, but with looser mandated restrictions in place, many (that survived the shutdown) found ways to get on just fine, i.e.: limited dining in, takeout only or delivery, etc. Grocery stores faired just fine when they were again able to keep essentials in stock with socially distance check out lines. Simply saying "you don't have to be safe anymore" before the vaccine was adequately available was reckless; if absolutely nothing adverse ever comes from it, that doesn't change that fact.

We "re-opened" when most of our population COULDN'T vaccinate, but were already actively bouncing back from the total shutdown; why open that door when all it does is literally invite more risk? And then turn around in the same breath and blame a brand new presidential administration (which coincidentally doesn't align with his own political views) for an unfounded allowance of an influx "immigrants with COVID?" The whole situation reeks, and Abbott should be relieved we haven't been as stupid as he permits us to be. You don't hand-wave poor decision making when it's mitigated by better decision making of those the poor decision making might affect.
 
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ObsidianJones

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The distinction is recklessness. You can be reckless without trying to intentionally kill people. Allowing a full re-opening without then adequate access to a vaccine was reckless; the people are playing it safe despite his decision to allow them not to.
The distinction is 400k lives.

 

CriticalGaming

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What's worse, reopening Texas from Covid restrictions? Or the boarder crisis?

Part of me can't help but wonder if Biden is deliberately trying to find a way ruin the country as much as possible. Or if the left is just that fucking stupid.
 

Phoenixmgs

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And I'm not overtly disagreeing with you; I'm simply disagreeing that the governor's decision when he said "you don't have to be careful AT ALL anymore" wasn't ill timed and irresponsible; just because it "probably wouldn't make a huge difference" doesn't change that fact. I liken it to him perhaps removing speed limits entirely; yes, most people will still drive reasonably safely, but not having limits to mitigate the risk of those (if few) wanting to drive 90mph through schools zones with abandon is just reckless.

As far as business go, many were hurt with the strict closures early on, but with looser mandated restrictions in place, many (that survived the shutdown) found ways to get on just fine, i.e.: limited dining in, takeout only or delivery, etc. Grocery stores faired just fine when they were again able to keep essentials in stock with socially distance check out lines. Simply saying "you don't have to be safe anymore" before the vaccine was adequately available was reckless; if absolutely nothing adverse ever comes from it, that doesn't change that fact.

We "re-opened" when most of our population COULDN'T vaccinate, but were already actively bouncing back from the total shutdown; why open that door when all it does is literally invite more risk? And then turn around in the same breath and blame a brand new presidential administration (which coincidentally doesn't align with his own political views) for an unfounded allowance of an influx "immigrants with COVID?" The whole situation reeks, and Abbott should be relieved we haven't been as stupid as he permits us to be. You don't hand-wave poor decision making when it's mitigated by better decision making of those the poor decision making might affect.
The governor didn't say you don't have to be careful anymore, he said “people and businesses don’t need the state telling them how to operate” any longer (from the linked article in the initial post). It's clear government guidelines and whatnot aren't being followed anyway because if they were, you wouldn't have had the holiday spike at the end of last year. And the way government messaging has been, pretty much anyone can call bullshit on it all. CNN had a video where a doctor said you gotta vet people to meet in groups (if you're vaccinated) so nobody is lying, it's just the most ridiculous shit that nobody is gonna do so when you do actually give a legit sensible guideline people are just gonna call bullshit on that because of the previous bullshit messages.

I saw something the other day about the economic recovery being "k-shaped" and the rich got richer and everyone else is not recovering even the though the numbers at face value don't look bad. So, there's a ton of people and businesses that aren't recovering. Like I've pointed out with the Illinois/Indiana differences, both experienced the same curves while one was very restrictive and the other wasn't. Or look at the UK vs US during the holidays, the curves are the same while the UK locked down again. It's businesses losing money for no reason for awhile now. And, yeah, grocery stores are fine because people need groceries, plus it was one of the few places people were "allowed" to go to.

Already a year in to this, restrictions aren't doing anything. Regardless of Abbott's motives, he isn't actually increasing risk, people are doing what they want at this point especially with the huge drop from the holidays, vaccines getting out there really fast, and the weather turning nice. Just about all of the vulnerable population should've got the vaccines by now. Only the people deathly scared of the virus are still following the guidelines.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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The distinction is 400k lives.

All these videos from the mainstream news (left or right) are such bullshit. This video starts out with that CDC lady saying she feels there's gonna be "impending doom" and says she's "going off script" yet continues reading from the script. There's no impending doom coming, probably a minor increase in cases before the vast majority get vaccinated and covid is basically nil in the summer and basically forever. And that doctor said that it was simple to save all the lives after the first wave. No, the 1st wave of deaths was the EASY SAVE. I knew it was here in February because it was fucking common sense. They started shutting down things at least a month late. We had ample time to put things in place to not have a 1st wave. When restrictions/lockdowns started, it was already fubar, the virus was too widespread to stop it unless you actually shut down EVERYTHING. The virus was just biding it's time slowly working through the essential workforce and when we started opening (which you can't keep a country closed for a year+), the virus was going to spread like you saw in the fall. That fall/holiday spread was the really hard one to keep down because it was like 6 months later and it's hard to keep the patience and persistence (especially with low summer numbers) to keep everyone on the same page. Maybe if they "let" people have their summers (as it was much safer then) and told them to hunker back down in the winter, people would've followed but you can't tell people to constantly hunker down for over a year. But when you keep getting bombarded with #STAYHOME for a year with bullshit messaging, most people are just gonna say "fuck that" basically. If we did stop the 1st wave and respond properly, we could've been like Australia or New Zealand, but that initial failure was the real "impending doom".
 
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Signa

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What is the distinction here? Restrictions were removed to allow people to decide appropriate behavior for themselves, and then they did. The only way these things are mutually exclusive is if you think the governor was actively trying to kill people.
Not like we don't have a couple of examples of that exact thing happening this last year.
 

SilentPony

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Fun enough my cousin was a manager at a bar&grill in Laredo, Texas for almost a decade and when she told her boss she wasn't comfortable opening the store to 100% capacity they fired her on the spot, and that's that. And she had put in tons of overtime during the pandemic to help keep the place open, and as soon as she objected to the pre-mature opening she got the boot.

Must be that common sense Texas spirit of generosity we keep hearing about.
 

ObsidianJones

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All these videos from the mainstream news (left or right) are such bullshit. This video starts out with that CDC lady saying she feels there's gonna be "impending doom" and says she's "going off script" yet continues reading from the script. There's no impending doom coming, probably a minor increase in cases before the vast majority get vaccinated and covid is basically nil in the summer and basically forever. And that doctor said that it was simple to save all the lives after the first wave. No, the 1st wave of deaths was the EASY SAVE. I knew it was here in February because it was fucking common sense. They started shutting down things at least a month late. We had ample time to put things in place to not have a 1st wave. When restrictions/lockdowns started, it was already fubar, the virus was too widespread to stop it unless you actually shut down EVERYTHING. The virus was just biding it's time slowly working through the essential workforce and when we started opening (which you can't keep a country closed for a year+), the virus was going to spread like you saw in the fall. That fall/holiday spread was the really hard one to keep down because it was like 6 months later and it's hard to keep the patience and persistence (especially with low summer numbers) to keep everyone on the same page. Maybe if they "let" people have their summers (as it was much safer then) and told them to hunker back down in the winter, people would've followed but you can't tell people to constantly hunker down for over a year. But when you keep getting bombarded with #STAYHOME for a year with bullshit messaging, most people are just gonna say "fuck that" basically. If we did stop the 1st wave and respond properly, we could've been like Australia or New Zealand, but that initial failure was the real "impending doom".
You know what's not bullshit?

Trump's own words.

Calling for less testing. CDC officials under Trump's sway manipulating data. Making false claims of safety, explaining that if you don't have a fever then you're safe... without even thinking about carriers.

People took these half brained ideas and ran with it. Many carriers, like the one who affected my mother, thought they were doing the right thing because that is what Trump told many people to make us believe.

My mother's passing anniversary is tomorrow. I'm out of this conversation.
 
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