The Batman trailer is here

BrawlMan

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This why I am glad Girts is no longer the show. He's always been a contrarian dick-wad. Girts could be cool some of the time, but I lost paitence around 2017. Nothing new here, Korey.

 

SilentPony

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They did not get the Riddler "wrong". They did something different, and combined some elements. Deal with it, or don't. Not my problem. You do realize this version is more like a combination of the Zodiac Killer, the Killer from Se7en, and Jigsaw (Ironic as Riddler was doing games way before Jigsaw became a thing) as well? Don't answer that, rhetorical question. Also, it's an alternate universe and else-worlds. Not everything has to be "SUPER 1000% ACCURACY OR DIE!!!!!". You may not like it for being different, but it's there and most don't have a problem. Plus, as much as I like Jim Carrey, this Riddler is a better rendition of the character, than the Ace Ventura/Jack Joker wannabe from Forever. With or without the comparison.
Legit question. How many elements of a character can be dropped before its not the same character? Is Sister Act 2 the same movie as Terminator 2, just with a different cast, characters, plot, tone, setting, story, and resolution? At what point does an "adaptation" just become a different thing? Is the Riddler still the Riddler even if his name, character, motivation, personality and backstory are different? Would calling him the Raddler have been one step too far? What if they had changed his powers to...Maxie Zeus? He's all of Hush's character, personality, backstory, motivation, appearance and plot, but with Riddler's title, and the powers of a Greek God? Is he still just "something different" or are you willing to admit its just not the same character? There's a difference between an interpretation and combination, and just getting it wrong. The Batman, despite citing other media, got Riddler wrong.
 

Gordon_4

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Legit question. How many elements of a character can be dropped before its not the same character? Is Sister Act 2 the same movie as Terminator 2, just with a different cast, characters, plot, tone, setting, story, and resolution? At what point does an "adaptation" just become a different thing? Is the Riddler still the Riddler even if his name, character, motivation, personality and backstory are different? Would calling him the Raddler have been one step too far? What if they had changed his powers to...Maxie Zeus? He's all of Hush's character, personality, backstory, motivation, appearance and plot, but with Riddler's title, and the powers of a Greek God? Is he still just "something different" or are you willing to admit its just not the same character? There's a difference between an interpretation and combination, and just getting it wrong. The Batman, despite citing other media, got Riddler wrong.
Why use the Riddler at all if you’re doing a serial killer angle? The Riddler isn’t that kind of villain; he just wants to get one over on Batman and prove he’s smarter than the dark knight. Not that he doesn’t do dangerous shit but he’s not interested in testing Joe Average of Gotham.

Like this guys sounds as if he didn't need to be any named character; just who he was.
 

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How many elements of a character can be dropped before its not the same character?
Depends on the character and property. Especially with comic characters with so many interpretations and alternate versions, that the whole "true version" of X character can get redundant. This applies even more so if said character have multiple incarnations with where is not much differences in personality other than voice and wardrobe.
Is Sister Act 2 the same movie as Terminator 2, just with a different cast, characters, plot, tone, setting, story, and resolution?
Either you high off your own ass, or your drawing straws that have nothing to do with anything. You always have a habit of doing that when no one does not fully conform to your views. You're wasting text here.

At what point does an "adaptation" just become a different thing?
Once again depends on the property you're adapting. Not every case is one to one. I do say that I prefer adaptions to do their own thing, while still retaining elements that stay mostly true to the property or characters. That said, if an adaption has to necessarily change something either due to the original elrment not working, value dissonance, or removes characters that are extra and add nothing, so be it. Hence why they're called adaptions. They have to adapt the right way to work, It's why I don't care much for "100% accurate adaptions!" from manga to anime. If the OG IP already sucked and is not good, then a 1-to-1 adaption won't fix the problem that was already there.

One of my favorite adaptions is The Crow. While accurate to an extent, things are changed to make or more narrative flow, and Eric is nicer in the movie compared his comic counterpart. He is given more humanity. Some things are changed, added, or altered for the better. The comic version plays almost like fever dream where stuff just happens. There is a story, but it is not as structural and focuses more on Eric giving himself pain since he is already dead. This is not a bad thing, but it is troubling to adapt something like that in 1994. Not without grossing out and depressing your audience even further. The changes were worth it, and the creator of the comic agrees.

if they had changed his powers to...Maxie Zeus? He's all of Hush's character, personality, backstory, motivation, appearance and plot, but with Riddler's title, and the powers of a Greek God? Is he still just "something different" or are you willing to admit its just not the same character?
Pony....that is just stupid. Not even WB would do something as nonsensical as that. Your example works hypothetically in this case, but it did not happened. If it did, you would have made a great point. Too bad it did not, thankfully. Otherwise, Reeves and WB/DC would be in a shit of trouble.

There's a difference between an interpretation and combination, and just getting it wrong. The Batman, despite citing other media, got Riddler wrong.
Nah, it got The Riddler right while adding some unique quirks and twists. Matt Reeves did nothing wrong at all. You're just being a usual contraian and can't handle someone thinks otherwise. I'm not doing these long ass essays; I made myself clear. I am going to be. Good night.
 

SilentPony

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Why use the Riddler at all if you’re doing a serial killer angle? The Riddler isn’t that kind of villain; he just wants to get one over on Batman and prove he’s smarter than the dark knight. Not that he doesn’t do dangerous shit but he’s not interested in testing Joe Average of Gotham.

Like this guys sounds as if he didn't need to be any named character; just who he was.
I agree. That's my big and only hang up on The Batman movie. This "Riddler" is not only a serial killer, he doesn't want to get one over on Batman, he thinks he's helping Batman, he thinks Batman is in on everything, and he's interested vengeance, and he has a full on cult of like minded criminals wearing the same costume.
He's modern Hush. He just happens to have been given the name "Riddler".
 

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Why use the Riddler at all if you’re doing a serial killer angle? The Riddler isn’t that kind of villain; he just wants to get one over on Batman and prove he’s smarter than the dark knight. Not that he doesn’t do dangerous shit but he’s not interested in testing Joe Average of Gotham.

Like this guys sounds as if he didn't need to be any named character; just who he was.
Once again, Else-worlds here; nothing new. The Riddler is still an egotistical douche-bag that like riddles, playing with people lives, and has a petty vendetta. Cares for no one, but himself. Aside from his mindless followers or people pleasing is fat ego. So it checks out.
 
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Cicada 5

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I agree. That's my big and only hang up on The Batman movie. This "Riddler" is not only a serial killer, he doesn't want to get one over on Batman, he thinks he's helping Batman, he thinks Batman is in on everything, and he's interested vengeance, and he has a full on cult of like minded criminals wearing the same costume.
He's modern Hush. He just happens to have been given the name "Riddler".
Calling this version of the Riddler Hush isn't accurate at all. Hush has no desire to help Batman or anyone else, this Riddler doesn't know Batman's secret identity. About the only thing they have in common is seeking vengeance, something just about every Batman villain has been portrayed as wanting at least once.
 
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Johnny Novgorod

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Calling this version of the Riddler Hush isn't accurate at all. Hush has no desire to help Batman or anyone else, this Riddler doesn't know Batman's secret identity. About the only thing they have in common is seeking vengeance, something just about every Batman villain has been portrayed as wanting at least once.
Also isn't Hush all about stealing Bruce Wayne's identity?
 

Piscian

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Just left it. Pretty solid, it got a little muddled at the end. Imagine Se7en, but then it drags out for a big action scene and a hopeful ending...I think the movie nailed the Batman we haven't gotten yet which is a solidly noir detective. There's more scenes of evidence being examined in this than all the other Batman movies combined. We also get a look at Batman before he's really found his purpose. That was pretty much alluded in the trailers. He's just beating people up at this point in his story, unsure of how to actually help the city. I actually liked having a genuinely tortured Batman who acknowledges and shows in the film that he's got serious issues.

You have the first series of films were largely bond inspired, suave cool guy Batman, and the Nolan was more hightech driven Batman. You know he was always about his principles and a kind of robin hood. Batfleck, if he counts, was a solid DKR middle-age, lost his motivation Batman. This is our first look at millennial Batman. I joke but it's a Batman who feels truly alone, abandoned and out of his mind with anger. The idea sounds cringe on paper but it really works here.

There's a kind of self-contained arc of him, not so much cooling down, but realizing what his purpose is supposed to be.

The strangest part of the movie is that it feels very self-contained. Like if they didn't make a sequel you'd be ok with it because the story isn't strictly about batman's journey this time around. Batman doesn't upgrade his car or get a new suit. There's no real meaningful story left on the table. It's a murder mystery with Batman in it.

I think this will go down as DC finally following the marvel formula. That is to say that marvel more successful films critically were ones where they wrote an interesting story and figured out how to make Batman work in it rather than to hack together a story around Batman.

Honestly for me it's Dark Knight, this and begins as my top 3. I'm not fanboying. This was genuinely just surprisingly good.

This is like the literal opposite of cowboy bebop. I was just so surprised at how well composed the whole thing was. I was really expecting blah at best.

Oh XD screen is totally worth for the car chase. It's a banger.
 
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Ezekiel

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One guy brought up The Long Halloween when I said it doesn't feel enough like Batman. The movie only took what wasn't too comic and out there from the graphic novel, which had an ensemble of fantastical villains. I didn't even like the graphic novel all that much, but at least the soul of Batman was there in full, unrestrained.



The movie left me wanting. I just didn't find it that enjoyable. The theatricality and fun of Batman was thinned out by too much grounded realism, for a mystery story that isn't really that good.
It gets muddled up in the end as yet another Gotham must pay/die disaster story, like Batman Begins and The Dark Knight Rises. I'm tired of the idealists simply out to destroy. Was disappointed by the portrayal of Riddler, just a sad, screaming crazy person who probably wouldn't have the marbles to pull it all off anyway.

"White privilege" line really didn't need to be there, but whatever.

The hard-hitting combat was cool, but I didn't like the use of CG and Batman being able to take all those shots. Bullet-proof Batman is a boring concept. It takes so much of the sense of danger away.

Liked the look of Gotham, for the most part. The music probably had something to do with my lack of excitement/joy. I want more melodious soundtracks. Can't even recall any but the discount Imperial March. Not a fan of Nirvana. Was disappointed to learn it wasn't just part of the trailer but the movie's theme song.

Batman's narration was overdone. Made him sound preachy. Someone made an apt comparison to those melodramatic Coon and Friends scenes in South Park, where Cartman narrates.
 
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Johnny Novgorod

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One guy brought up The Long Halloween when I said it doesn't feel enough like Batman. The movie only took what wasn't too comic and out there from the graphic novel, which had an ensemble of fantastical villains. I didn't even like the graphic novel all that much, but at least the soul of Batman was there in full, unrestrained.
So you didn't like the movie and wish it were more like a comic you also didn't like.
 
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Ezekiel

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So you didn't like the movie and wish it were more like a comic you also didn't like.
Oversimplification of what I said (which also ignores the "that" in my statement), but that's all your snark ever has. Don't know why I ever reveal your hidden posts.
 
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Ezekiel

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An argument I keep seeing for the grounded, realistic Batman is that not all the stories in older Batman media were fantastical, which is of course too. I just watched the episode It's Never Too Late again, which is merely about a crime boss lamenting something that happened in the past and having his son get addicted to the drugs he's filling the streets with while a rival is trying to get rid of him. It's a good story. But you wouldn't use something ordinary like that for a movie, because we only get them every several years, with the last live action reboot now being seventeen years old. Why waste it on a Se7en that's not as good? Besides, those more ordinary stories and characters are only a part of a series, which DOES have those elements of fantasy. Superheroes are inherently unrealistic, so revel in it.
 
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Bob_McMillan

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Pretty anti-climactic for me. Not that I thought the movie was bad, I actually really enjoyed it, but I was still expecting a lot more. First time back in cinemas after two years AND the latest iteration of Batman? I was hoping to get my socks knocked off.

I don't really have anything to say that hasn't been said already. I liked how Bats uses fear, I liked all the portrayals, I liked what action there was, and I liked the cinematography. I didn't like that Bats was so bulletproof, to the point that he acts like he actually is bulletproof to his detriment, I didn't like how unnecessarily long this was, and I didn't like the "twist" with the Riddler.

All in all, still a good, well made movie, but I was hoping for more.

EDIT: Also, minus points for no batarangs. I don't think he even used those weird arrow things on his gauntlet. All the impossible grappling hooks and magic contact lenses are okay, but Bats can't even throw a sharp piece of metal? Maybe if he used them more he'd get shot a lot less.

EDIT EDIT: Was also surprised at how much sequel teasing there was. Not that I wouldn't mind more from this version of Batman, but this didn't seem like the type to do these things which made them really stand out.
 
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Cicada 5

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An argument I keep seeing for the grounded, realistic Batman is that not all the stories in older Batman media were fantastical, which is of course too. I just watched the episode It's Never Too Late again, which is merely about a crime boss lamenting something that happened in the past and having his son get addicted to the drugs he's filling the streets with while a rival is trying to get rid of him. It's a good story. But you wouldn't use something ordinary like that for a movie, because we only get them every several years, with the last live action reboot now being seventeen years old. Why waste it on a Se7en that's not as good? Besides, those more ordinary stories and characters are only a part of a series, which DOES have those elements of fantasy. Superheroes are inherently unrealistic, so revel in it.
Not every superhero story has to be the same way.
 

Phoenixmgs

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An argument I keep seeing for the grounded, realistic Batman is that not all the stories in older Batman media were fantastical, which is of course too. I just watched the episode It's Never Too Late again, which is merely about a crime boss lamenting something that happened in the past and having his son get addicted to the drugs he's filling the streets with while a rival is trying to get rid of him. It's a good story. But you wouldn't use something ordinary like that for a movie, because we only get them every several years, with the last live action reboot now being seventeen years old. Why waste it on a Se7en that's not as good? Besides, those more ordinary stories and characters are only a part of a series, which DOES have those elements of fantasy. Superheroes are inherently unrealistic, so revel in it.
To me it seemed like Matt Reeves was doing the same thing as Todd Philips with Joker, trying to make a "real film" in the guise of a comic book movie because that's the only way to make real films nowadays apparently. But both Joker and The Batman are poor films, just because you're inspired by some great film doesn't inherently make it a great film and just sticking in Joker or Batman into your bad movie that's inspired by a good movie doesn't make it a good movie either. It's not like you can't make like a good "anti-superhero" superhero movie as Logan exists.
 
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Ezekiel

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Not every superhero story has to be the same way.
But every Batman movie does. :rolleyes:

To me it seemed like Matt Reeves was doing the same thing as Todd Philips with Joker, trying to make a "real film" in the guise of a comic book movie because that's the only way to make real films nowadays apparently. But both Joker and The Batman are poor films, just because you're inspired by some great film doesn't inherently make it a great film and just sticking in Joker or Batman into your bad movie that's inspired by a good movie doesn't make it a good movie either. It's not like you can't make like a good "anti-superhero" superhero movie as Logan exists.
I didn't like Logan that much, because I don't care for X-Men, and, while I was somewhat unimpressed and disappointed with Joker and The Batman, I wouldn't go as far as to call them bad, but I still, overall, agree with you.
 
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Ezekiel

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Only read it once over a decade ago, but I still remember the tension in Year One, where Batman needed to do his best to avoid bullets and barely came out of that church alive. Likewise, that scene where he's hunted by the police in Mask of the Phantasm. They can think of reasons for him only wearing textiles, like stealth, speed and aerodynamics. Or set it in the past, when machine guns and semi-automatic pistols weren't so easily acquired yet. In the movie The Friends of Eddie Coyle, selling machine guns illegally gets you life in prison. Similar laws in Gotham would make the bad guys want to carry fewer machine guns. They can put a yellow bullet-proof bat symbol on his chest to draw the enemy's aim. But when it gets to the point where Batman takes bullet after bullet, shotgun pellets at point blank range and even (what looked like) high-powered sniper rounds, that's boring.
 
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