The Best and Worst of Fate Reforged
- Thread starter Encaen
- Start date
A note about Daghatar the Adamant, he doesnt say you have to be controlling the creatures that you take counters from. So considering the abundance of incidental counters in the set, his ability might be a lot better than a 0 net gain.
Re Soulflayer: [mtg_card=Prophetic Flamespeaker] exists.
Re Daghatar: You realize he can target enemy creatures too, right? He doesn't just move +1/+1 counters for 3 mana, he steals +1/+1 counters for 3 mana each.
Re Dark Deal: [mtg_card=Whelming Wave] is a thing too.
Re Crucible of the Spirit Dragon: I just want to point out the third set in the block is called "Dragons of Tarkir". It's a hold-over, that has to exist now in this time period (because it doesn't later), but doesn't actually do anything yet. Just like another card in the set, Renowned Weaponsmith, who tutors for a card that doesn't yet exist.
Re Daghatar: You realize he can target enemy creatures too, right? He doesn't just move +1/+1 counters for 3 mana, he steals +1/+1 counters for 3 mana each.
Re Dark Deal: [mtg_card=Whelming Wave] is a thing too.
Re Crucible of the Spirit Dragon: I just want to point out the third set in the block is called "Dragons of Tarkir". It's a hold-over, that has to exist now in this time period (because it doesn't later), but doesn't actually do anything yet. Just like another card in the set, Renowned Weaponsmith, who tutors for a card that doesn't yet exist.
andAlin Dobrovolschi said:
Regarding Daghatar, full disclosure: I didn't notice the lack of restriction.2xDouble said:
I'll concede that this makes Daghatar *way* better than I originally thought, though his potential value is still super situational. Not sure what should take his place, but I'll readily admit that sans restriction, he probably doesn't warrant the smack talking I did in this article.
As to the Crucible of the Spirit Dragon, I'm not holding my breath, but if the next set is truly a cavalcade of dragon subtypes, then it might get boosted. From this set's dragon options, though, I'm not sure it's worth the trouble.
Dark Deal is a terrible card. Sure, hypothetically you can creatte a combo to manipulate it, like bouncing the board and casting it as some sort of mill strategy, but that's true of most wonky magic cards, it doesn't make them good, it means you're jumping through hoops to do a subpar combo instead of winning the game efficiently. Crucible of the Spirit Dragon will remain bad even in Dragons of Tarkir because it's so inefficient - every time you store mana, you're effectively paying 2 mana now for 1 down the road (because you're tapping the crucible for the effect instead of mana), so you're losing both time and quantity, and then, when you want to spend it, you effectively paying 1. It's a mana sink that will never pay for itself, or be fast or efficient enough to be worth it. If 5-colour dragons are a thing in the future, you'll see decks running 5 sets of tri-lands before you see this.2xDouble said:
As for what I think is also good, most of the legendary dragons look really good on their own, and may well get ridiculous once Dragons of Tarkir is announced (as will Crux of Fate) - Ojutai is the only one who doesn't look worth it. Brutal Hordechief and Monastery Mentor are ridiculous cards, but they're mythic. The uncommon cycle of creatures who benefit from having other clan colors around them look really good, and I want to try out Valorous Stance in as many decks as I can.
All I really want from this set is Ugin, but the dragons might be fun in a Scion EDH deck. Other than that, this set's alright I guess. I was a little disappointed that there aren't any wedge cards, but hybrids are usually better anyway.
Mardu got Dash, Abzan got Bolster, I'm curious what the other new Khan mechanics will be in the last set or they will be just get completely overshadowed by dragons.
Dark Deal isn't necessarily terrible. It's a wacky card that can work fantastically in niche decks, like Liliana's Caress decks (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205035). Or Underworld Dreams decks (Example: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/casual-related-formats/161543-advise-on-draw-damage-red-black-deck).
Crucible not being Legendary intrigues me... it opens up possibilities for off-color shenanigans with Kruphix and his followers in a Simic or Temur dragons deck... Kruphix, God of Dragons, you might say. (Although, if you have Kruphix and Prophet and Courser up, you're pretty much winning anyway...). That's not to say that Crucible of the Spirit Dragon is good, only that there is good to be had. It'll likely never beat Green Devotion or Abzan Aggro though...Encaen said:
I'm more surprised he said Taigam's Scheming was bad... That card is AMAZING. It's a 2 mana for a Scry 5... BUT BETTER.
Why Scry forces you to put unwated cards on the bottom of your library, where they are basically dead, Taigam's Scheming allows you put them in your graveyard, where they can power Delve or just get recurred.
Planning your next 3-5 turns ahead of time is awesome. Won me quite a few games...
Why Scry forces you to put unwated cards on the bottom of your library, where they are basically dead, Taigam's Scheming allows you put them in your graveyard, where they can power Delve or just get recurred.
Planning your next 3-5 turns ahead of time is awesome. Won me quite a few games...
She, actually. May not be as obvious on the regular artwork as the Intro Pack promo, but that's how it is.Encaen said:
She was my prerelease promo today and I had a lot of fun bolstering my forces with her, even though she never had the chance to go higher than Bolster 3. She was definitely one of my most useful cards, along with Sage's Reverie, Lightform, Grim Contest and Abzan Guide/Armament Corps from Khans.
All I can think about when I see Warden of the First Tree is how much fun that would be in a green black Golgari deck with a Corpsejack Menace or two on the battlefield. I know it's one of those things that sounds a lot better in my mind than in practice, but boy does a 13/13 (potentially up to 83/83 with four Corpsejack Menaces on the battle field, as each one doubles the previous doubling) with trample and lifelink for 12 sounds awfully attractive.
Honestly, I don't think Great-Horn Krushok and Siege Rhino can be compared favourably. One is a vanilla common, which is a staple in pretty much every set. The other is a rare - and thus likely a one-off - that was probably featured in a handful of top-tier builds in Wizards' articles (Perilous Research, Top Decks, et cetera). I feel it makes sense to say that not every card is designed to be perfect.
On the subject of Prereleases, I lost every game I played. Four rounds, four 0-2 demolitions. I probably had the worst pool anyone had seen all day. Another guy at my table opened two Shamans of the Great Hunt in the same pack (one foil), while I ended up with a pile that lacked any form of cohesion whatsoever.
I did, however, trade for a Prophet of Kruphix to finish my Surrak EDH deck. So it wasn't a complete waste of my day.
On the subject of Prereleases, I lost every game I played. Four rounds, four 0-2 demolitions. I probably had the worst pool anyone had seen all day. Another guy at my table opened two Shamans of the Great Hunt in the same pack (one foil), while I ended up with a pile that lacked any form of cohesion whatsoever.
I did, however, trade for a Prophet of Kruphix to finish my Surrak EDH deck. So it wasn't a complete waste of my day.
Sorry, [mtg_card=Taigam's Scheming] is terrible. Setting up your draw steps is not worth a card if it's not replacing itself. You're down a resource now and that's not something to be taken lightly. The only decks I think it's somewhat passable in are combo where you care less about the raw resources since your 2-3 card combo will win the game by itself.The Deadpool said:
What's great about Magic is that even the worst card can find a home, but that doesn't make it good. The problem with [mtg_card=Liliana's Caress] discard is you have to jump through these hoops of having them have cards, instead of just playing the 8-Rack version, which only wants to empty their hand.Lemmibl said:
My opinionated 2 cents.
In standard you can play turn 2 waste not into turn 3 dark deal and get a bunch of triggers off of waste not, not really good or reliable but a fun casual combo.
Also turn 2 spirit of the labyrinth into turn 3 dark deal makes you discard your hand draw 0 cards and your opponent discards their hand and draws 1 card. terrible combo but its funny.
Also turn 2 spirit of the labyrinth into turn 3 dark deal makes you discard your hand draw 0 cards and your opponent discards their hand and draws 1 card. terrible combo but its funny.
What's great about Magic is that even the worst card can find a home, but that doesn't make it good. The problem with [mtg_card=Liliana's Caress] discard is you have to jump through these hoops of having them have cards, instead of just playing the 8-Rack version, which only wants to empty their hand.Lemmibl said:
My opinionated 2 cents.[/quote]
If you want to keep it in standard, turn 2 waste not into turn 3 dark deal is probably 4-5 triggers, if not more against the slower midrange or control decks. Play it with ashiok and the one mana discard spells and they better hope they top deck well.
about warden, I think if fleecemane and that wolf showed anything a turn 2 3/3 in G/W is good enough warden can even be attacking(in exchange for your turn 1 mana and a extra turn on the field where it can get killed by early burn), also with the release of fate there will be 2, 2mana instant speed spells in white that can give a creature indestructable and 1 2 mana instant speed card in green that can give a creature indestructable allowing for protection and good trades when blocking. GW also has soom powerful planeswalkers for extra support including ajani mentor of heroes. Maybe next to fleecemane or as a fleecemane alt it could find a place in a deck.
Uhhh....no, #notallbolstercards.
Abzan Advantage, for instance, is *AWFUL*.
On occasion, you might side it in. (there are not a enough enchantments in the format that destroying one of their choice is relevant) But as a combat trick, it virtually never saves the creature you want. Battlegrowth was not exactly tearing up limited formats back in the day. Burst of strength is a strictly better combat trick in 3 different ways, and that was a card you were sad to have as a 23rd card.
Frankly, most of the bolster cards are probably only ok in draft, other than the general and angelina. Well, ok, and the dragon, of course.
Dhagatar, on the other hand, would be a limited bomb even if you couldn't steal from your opponent. It might read as "zero sum" in that circumstance, but it isn't. If I can move one counter, blocking profitably becomes difficult for my opponent. If I can move 2, it becomes damn near impossible.
Warden is a definate limited bomb, and I remain to be convinced it isn't going to see constructed play. I agree it is not as good as the hype, but how not as good is a more complex equation.
Abzan Advantage, for instance, is *AWFUL*.
On occasion, you might side it in. (there are not a enough enchantments in the format that destroying one of their choice is relevant) But as a combat trick, it virtually never saves the creature you want. Battlegrowth was not exactly tearing up limited formats back in the day. Burst of strength is a strictly better combat trick in 3 different ways, and that was a card you were sad to have as a 23rd card.
Frankly, most of the bolster cards are probably only ok in draft, other than the general and angelina. Well, ok, and the dragon, of course.
Dhagatar, on the other hand, would be a limited bomb even if you couldn't steal from your opponent. It might read as "zero sum" in that circumstance, but it isn't. If I can move one counter, blocking profitably becomes difficult for my opponent. If I can move 2, it becomes damn near impossible.
Warden is a definate limited bomb, and I remain to be convinced it isn't going to see constructed play. I agree it is not as good as the hype, but how not as good is a more complex equation.
Pre-Release Update:
Did the 2-Headed Giant pre-release on Sunday with my wife.
Opened Ugin in the first FRF pack we opened. Cast him once during match 3. He got countered. Sadface.
Still went 3-1, though!
[mtg_card=Mob Rule] was solely responsible for two of our three wins. That card is nuts in 2HG!
One of our prize packs had [mtg_card=Flooded Strand] AND [mtg_card=Soulfire Grandmaster]. That was a good pack.
How'd everybody else fare this weekend?
Did the 2-Headed Giant pre-release on Sunday with my wife.
Opened Ugin in the first FRF pack we opened. Cast him once during match 3. He got countered. Sadface.
Still went 3-1, though!
[mtg_card=Mob Rule] was solely responsible for two of our three wins. That card is nuts in 2HG!
One of our prize packs had [mtg_card=Flooded Strand] AND [mtg_card=Soulfire Grandmaster]. That was a good pack.
How'd everybody else fare this weekend?