The Best Explanation for why FF 13 was a Terrible Game

gavinmcinns

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I saw this in a comment in kotaku and it is an absolutely perfect dissection of ff13:

I don't believe FFXIII was a success narratively at all. The entire game's story is annoying cryptic and lacking in any sort of genuine human pathos from the majority of the cast to make anyone give a damn about them.

Allow me to break down just ONE character, the "central character", and show you why she is emblematic of an entire problem in the game; the game as a whole is reflective of Lightning, and it's as subtle, intelligent, and believable as Lightning is... which is to say, not at all.

Lightning - Let me start with a very simple question: Why did Lightning become a Soldier? That's not a question to brush aside easily; that's WHO SHE IS, and her being a soldier defines much of her behavior and personality. But what was the reason she made that decision?

The game doesn't really tell us. It doesn't tell us many things. So she's introverted and closed-off to those around her... but WHY? Toriyama asked Nomura to create a "female Cloud", and superficially they are very similar. They look similar. They're both soldiers that join a rebellion. Their roles in combat and their use of weapons are similar. Even their aloof and cold personalities are similar.

But pause for a second and look at some VERY key differences, ones that show why Cloud is a good character with development and why Lightning is a shallow character of shallow writing.

Cloud in FF7 is FULLY EXPLORED in the game. The game slows down and gives us hours of flashback material that we experience (and not just watch), showing Cloud in his childhood, his friendship with Tifa, his promises as a youth, his childhood dreams and ambitions, his connection to his mother and the rest of the time. We hear him tell us clearly why he wants to join SOLDIER, why he looks up to Sephiroth, and why he carries such a desire to make Tifa see him with admiration and pride.

And then we see how Cloud failed that obligation. His promises were not kept. His dreams didn't pan out. We see him return to his hometown in shame, humiliation, hiding away behind his helmet. We see how he creates a fantasy world for himself where everything he wanted happened, taking the spot of Zack and imitating a true hero, only to have a powerful, game-defining confrontation with the ghosts of his pasts later in the game. Cloud sheds the skin of his past mistakes and embraces, for the first time, through the help of his friends, his true identity, his true path in life. He is utterly, completely changed through this experience.

But we understand Cloud's meager origin, his great adversity, and his eventual triumph. That is the "Hero's Journey" in a nutshell.

Now look at Lightning. Where is she from? Why does she want something different? How does she even know Snow? Why does she disapprove of him? Why is she so aloof to her sister? Why does she feel she should be a soldier? What specifically causes her protection of Hope to change her? Where are the moments that showcase that internal conflict? Where are the scenes that show her trial-by-fire? Unlike Cloud, we are never given a breakdown of Lightning that takes her, breaks her into her identifiable parts, and then analyzes who she is. We do not get an origin for her. We do not get an ENDING for her. We get her stuck in the middle, in the struggle, but it's not even HER struggle; it's the struggle the l'Ceith curse stuck her with.

You say she has a "character arc" of going from a total cold ***** to "forgiving Snow"... but that's just it; Snow did nothing wrong. There was nothing to forgive. Becoming "less self-reliant" isn't a character arc; that's just necessity and common sense to help and get help from others against problems to big for you to handle. If the problem was something she thought she could honestly handle on her own, would she genuinely ask others to help her?

If she was not cursed, would she still fight for her sister? For her friends? I don't know. The game doesn't bother to ask or answer these questions. She's shallow, entirely written as an emotion and not a character. She punches her friends, not because she's "strong", but only because she's "angry" and has absolutely no other way to express it because the writers don't have the talent or skill to show her with an ounce of nuance.

There's a scene in Final Fantasy 9 where the child mage Vivi realizes what death is. No words are spoken. He does not sob. He does not cry. We only see his eyes, bright yellow eyes in a sea of black, and we KNOW, through the writing, through the music, through the lighting and camera angles, that his innocent child has just realized he, himself, is going to one day die, and the horrible impact this has on his fragile soul hits him, and the gamer, right to their core. It's subtle, brilliant.

Lightning has no such nuance. She is a woman entirely of emotion, not thought, entirely of physicality, not introspectivity. She is blunt. She is shallow. She is the Michael Bay heroine, not the Hironobu Sakaguchi-created being of complicated thought, action, or morality (see Faris, Rydia, Terra, Celes, Garnet, Yuna...)

The rest of the story is no better. Do you know who Yuj is? Why is he in the game? Or how about Jihl? What reason does she have to EXIST in the game? I could go on and on about how the pacing of the game was horrendous and restrictive, how enemy motivations lack clarity or common sense, how nearly every single character is devoid of a backstory (Does Sazh have a wife? Who is his child's mother? How did he wind up on that train and why was he in that city in the first place? Compare that to Barret from FF7, who gets a backstory on how he got a daughter, lost his hand, and was driven to being a terrorist.)

The game, as a whole, is like Lightning; too busy fighting, too focused on the final destination, and no concern for stopping to share intimate human details amongst each other (and thus the player). They remain characters that thrive on their costumes and designs, but when looked at too closely, we see very little there. They have little substance, little history, little intelligence, little evolution.

Unlike Cloud in FF7, who received an entire hours-long chapter dedicated exclusively to his past, his dreams, his relationships, his fears, and his future, we don't get that.

What is Lightning's past? What are her dreams? What are her fears and humiliations? What is the context of her relationships? How does any of this affect her PRESENT, let alone her future?

I want these answers. The game didn't give them. And for a character-driven game, that's unacceptable. 2/01/12 1:00pm
 

Maximum Bert

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I wouldnt call that a perfect dissection I feel the complaint here is in the story was not what was wanted or expected. I never got the feeling in the game that it was about the characters as they were before but rather about them in that moment basically them becoming L`cie (whatever it was called) and the duty they are tasked with. Also Cloud and Lightning do not have many similarities personality wise (talking FFVII Cloud here as he acts differently in every game hes in for some reason almost like Square Enix arent sure what his character is anymore) Cloud is certainly aloof at the start but I never got the feeling he was cold, cocky would be more like it.

This also dosent address any of the gameplay such as its snail start forcing you to run corridors for ages and basically making the entire game a tutorial (until end game). Also pressing auto attack for the first 2/3rds of the game is boring sure most FF games you just press attack anyway but at least sometimes you have to heal and use other spells and get limit breaks and other cool stuff earlier.

I dont think the characters are great in FFXIII for the most part or the story and it certainly had its problems but I dont entirely agree with this critique its a different FF game it went for a different style of story in its own way one more in the moment just like XII went for a different story than the worlds in danger and both failed miserably unfortunately. I see FFXIIIs story and characters like a hollywood movie plenty of style and no substance but that dosent mean you cant switch your brain off and enjoy it in part or whole.

I would also argue against the belief that XIII is a terrible game it may be a game you dont like or you hate but its not terrible it works fine and feels complete (why the sequels? why? mind you I suppose X pulled the same unneeded stunt). I could apply what you are saying to characters in XII for the most part I remember Frans backstory and though what thats it? FF2 characters are better developed (ok maybe they arent but its close).
I dont like XII either as you may have guessed but again as much as I dislike it I cant say its a terrible game either now FF2 thats a terrible game.

Also side note cant believe people are still talking about this game XV is out soonish lets wait and see what happens with that.
 

Strain42

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I started having my doubts about FF13 the moment that I read an interview with one of the big guns at SquareEnix trying to explain that when creating the character of Lightning they wanted to make her a "Female Cloud" and then I guess he maybe tried to explain why anyone would thing that's a good idea, but I wouldn't know because I stopped reading at that first point and have been doing my best to ignore FF13 and anything related to it ever since.

The End.

:D
 

PedroSteckecilo

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This is just my read based on my replay but...

Lightning like the rest of the characters of FF13 is deeply flawed, she became a soldier in the Guardian Corps (remember NOT the Elite PsiCorps, just the joe average "cop" style soldiers) to provide for her sister and protect her town, she has that extremely tropey "Older Sibling/Guardian" trait of being so absorbed with taking care OF her sister that she doesn't focus as much on caring ABOUT her sister as much as she should. The aloofness comes from that whole "I know what's best for you, why are you messing around with that doofus from that stupid vigilante group?". So yeah... she's kind of a cold, bitchy tough lady when the game begins, but since that caused her current situation rather than fixing it she starts to warm up to others, Hope primarily since he's the one who's there. I guess I can't pin down the characters driving force other than the desire to save her sister after she ignored her pleas for help and understanding.

But I can understand why you don't like the character (or the game in general).
 

Mahorfeus

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I never particularly understood the hate for FFXIII, at least for the base game. Its sequels, well... I can agree that it wasn't really an installment particularly worthy of expansion.
 

CelestDaer

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Maximum Bert said:
I wouldnt call that a perfect dissection I feel the complaint here is in the story was not what was wanted or expected. I never got the feeling in the game that it was about the characters as they were before but rather about them in that moment basically them becoming L`cie (whatever it was called) and the duty they are tasked with.
Knowing a bit more about what leads them to act the way they do after becoming cursed would have helped the narrative, and given the player perspective into how they think...
Maximum Bert said:
Also side note cant believe people are still talking about this game XV is out soonish lets wait and see what happens with that.
Because Lightning Returns, or FF13 part 3 is due out soon?
 

Happiness Assassin

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Another problem I would like to add is that along with the fact that, as you said, Lightning is so focused on the destination that it leaves time for little else, is compounded by the fact that don't even seem to know what the destination is. This is somewhat reflected in the fact that cursed to complete a task that isn't made clear to them, but it just makes for shit story telling. My entire time playing the game was filled with questions. Who are these people? Why are they doing this? What are their motivations? WHAT IS THEIR GOAL? Half the time they just seemed to be aimlessly wandering down hallway after hallway, unsure of why they are going this way. And if nobody (including the audience) has any idea what is going on, then you have done a shit job as a storyteller. What is worse is the fact that when they (and the audience) actually find out what to do toward the end of the game, it almost seems to go completely counter to what has happened up until this point and plays right into the big bad's plans. In fact, there are really only two reasons that the big bad's plan doesn't succeed: the power of friendship and a massive deus ex machina. After I finished the game, I have never had less desire to replay this game than I have any other game. I can confidently say this is one of my least favorite games.
 

TrevHead

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I quit playing when I got to Grand Pulse, I found having to change up my party for every encounter tedious at best. I was gonna retrain one or 2 characters a new skill tree so I wouldn't have to swap characters. However I haven't a clue how the enemies are later into the game. If I train my characters to specialise as normal will I be forever changing my team for each encounter like Grand Pulse?
 

Sanunes

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My issue with Final Fantasy 13 is it still feels to me that they are making NES/SNES games with a higher fidelity, when not trying to improve all the elements of the game they are focusing on only one element of the game. I have been playing the US version of FF3 (I can't remember off-hand what the real number is) and I get the same feeling from it that I did with FF13 and I think the only reason why I can look beyond it is partly nostalgia and its age.
 

Ipsen

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PedroSteckecilo said:
This is just my read based on my replay but...

Lightning like the rest of the characters of FF13 is deeply flawed, she became a soldier in the Guardian Corps (remember NOT the Elite PsiCorps, just the joe average "cop" style soldiers) to provide for her sister and protect her town, she has that extremely tropey "Older Sibling/Guardian" trait of being so absorbed with taking care OF her sister that she doesn't focus as much on caring ABOUT her sister as much as she should. The aloofness comes from that whole "I know what's best for you, why are you messing around with that doofus from that stupid vigilante group?". So yeah... she's kind of a cold, bitchy tough lady when the game begins, but since that caused her current situation rather than fixing it she starts to warm up to others, Hope primarily since he's the one who's there. I guess I can't pin down the characters driving force other than the desire to save her sister after she ignored her pleas for help and understanding.

But I can understand why you don't like the character (or the game in general).
I got to this conclusion somewhat myself, but there was so much effort (coupled with taking me out of the game) inferring the smallest of details, that once I figured it out, the enlightenment wasn't worth the effort.

There was something to be said for all the characters in this game; it was all apparent that they had drama going on. But the story was so stuck in the present that it provided no sort of basis for any of the personality that the emotional moments from the game poured from. Shit kind of just happened, then I had to just roll with my assumption that 'Oh, Lightning is just being protective of her sister', or 'Sazh...kid...something something' (Wow, I've done a spectacular job forgetting about this game).

Say what you will about FF7, but Cloud remains one of my favorite video game characters because, while the delivery wasn't perfect (wow much flashback), I find him to be one of the most believably fleshed out characters in any JRPG. The narcissism and vanity out of Cloud, and the acknowledgement of such isn't something you see often in game characters.

FFXIII could have had something unique with the whole 'sickness/life ticking away' plot, but the exposition (the single term I would use to sum up FFXIII's deficiency) needed to solidify the characters by their pasts, and perhaps their futures. Toriyama left it so disorganized that it was actually hard to care for the terminally ill.

Anyway, good find OP. I find it well explained. I'd say something along the lines of 'beating a dead horse', but who am I to stop you from a topic-starter.
 

Zeraki

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The worst part of XIII for me(aside from the terrible and unlikeable characters) was the fact that the game never felt the need to explain anything to you.

For Example: What's a Fal'Cie? Where do they come from? What's a L'Cie(this gets explained a bit in-game at least)? Why can Snow punch a Metal Gear in the face without breaking his hand? Who are these people you're traveling with? Why is Snow such an idiot? Why is there a Chocobo living in that guy's afro?

The game acts as if you should have pre-existing knowledge about the world, but you don't. There is absolutely no exposition, so the story pretty much makes no sense and gets boring really fast.

And if you want an explanation for all the questions you have, then you better either dig through the game's huge codex or look it up on a wiki. And some of the stuff that they don't bother explaining in the game doesn't even get explained in the codex(why the hell is there a Chocobo in that guy's afro?).

And let's not even get started with the endless hallway of doom. If you can't make your story or characters interesting/likeable in a JRPG, then it isn't worth investing time in.
 

Folksoul

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That commentor has just proven that they cannot make a simple conjecture. "How does she know Snow?" Why does she disapprove of him?" Why would a police officer dislike a gang of miscreants that have access to guns and other military grade equipment through surplus stores???? Let alone the leader of said group, who is in a relationship with your baby sister?! Serah essentially told her in the least believable way possible, and at an inconvenient time, that she has become a fairy tale creature and is engaged to a thug... with amazing abs and a brain made out of dead hamsters...

Why did Lightning become a soldier?--(answer is in datalog.)

If good story-telling is expecting the audience to only accept what is ******DIRECTLY SAID IN OBVIOUS TEXT******* then Lord Of the Rings is the worst story ever written. 90-100% of the world building is in the appendices or other books. Why are there only 5 wizards? They're damned useful even if one went evil. Why can't we train more? etc...
Another example of this fallacy is HALO 4. The plot comes from the expanded universe novels that if the player hasn't read them, they will be mostly lost. At least XIII's errata is provided in game.

Lightning isn't even the protagonist of XIII!(see also: Tidus, Vahn, Harry Mason of Silent Hill Shattered Memories, Madoka,Ishmeal etc.) The plot revolves around Vanille and Fang. Lightning comes in a distant 3rd for importance to the A plot. I don't see why most people get so hung up on her... at least until Toriama made the 3rd game about her explicitly because he really really really really really wants to bone her...

XIII's narrative structure is a 50/50 mix Persona 3 and a military FPS. Go forward, setpiece/cutscene, combat, eff around with stats and party management. REPEAT UNTIL CREDITS ROLL. It's really not that complicated... I understand people disliking XIII. What I don't understand is people being confused by it. It's not subtle and really simple to follow once the audience has caught up with the En Medias Res, and every story that uses E.M.R. is confusing until the halfway point so that's nothing intrinsic to this game.
 

SonOfVoorhees

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It was crap because of the overly complicated use of names for stuff. Also the characters were bland and boring. Sorry, but bitching about being weak after killing 1000 enemies and bosses....thats stupid and annoying. I would like a blend of jrpg and wrpg. That would be perfect.

Just give us a group of fun characters, some with issues, and an obvious enemy with out all the bullshit.
 

Folksoul

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Tank207 said:
And if you want an explanation for all the questions you have, then you better either dig through the game's huge codex or look it up on a wiki. And some of the stuff that they don't bother explaining in the game doesn't even get explained in the codex(why the hell is there a Chocobo in that guy's afro?).
It's totally explained. IN CUTSCENE. IN PLAIN ENGLISH!(or language of your choice) He bought it for his son. Who was taken my the sanctum. Because of Vanille's backstory. It's the last thing he has of Dajh. Sazh explains this to Vanille around chapter 8.
 

Folksoul

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zehydra said:
But how is the gameplay, story-telling aside?
Its persona 3 with an ATB gadge. Cutscene of characters having issues or team combat with a single controllable character. Everything else is stat management.
 

EternallyBored

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Maximum Bert said:
CelestDaer said:
Because Lightning Returns, or FF13 part 3 is due out soon?
What CelestDaer said, also FF 15 originally started out as a game called FF 13 versus, and was going to be another part of an entire series spinning off of 13 as a shared mythos. There's also the speculation that the ending of 13-3 is actually showing the world of 15, and that Lightning may end up being in that game.

That's part of why 13 still gets brought up, because Square keeps trying to shove its world and mythology down our throats, to the point that even the next main numbered game started out as linked to the world of 13. Square stated way back in 2009, that they wanted to make 13 the origin story of a shared mythos that would ripple out to numerous other final fantasy title, to the point that even future FF games would share concepts like L'cie, Fal'cie, and characters like Lightning would be a common link between future FF game even more so than things like chocobos and characters named Cid.

For people that didn't like 13, especially those that didn't like its story and world (since combat and individual story and characters can be fixed), there's a certain amount of disconnect in seeing Square trying to tie this series intrinsically into the entire future of the Final Fantasy franchise.
 

GiantRaven

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The biggest problem I could observe from watching my finace play it was that it seemed to basically play itself. The only real input she seemed to have was walking forward during non-combat segments and then hammering A during battles.

There seemed to be absolutely no variation upon that theme of the barest interaction at all.