The Big Picture: All The World Is Waiting

[Amund]

Bob....You really need to take a course in DC history bub.


The first Wonder Woman was Queen Hippolyta who had traveled back in time to the 1940's and taken up her daughters mantle after her actions lead to Diana's death..





Also...WTF her bracelets, tiara, and lasso where forged by the gods to protect her and where givin as rewards for her beating out all other amazons in combat. They wherent chains.

The orignal origin was what bob said. Since then DC has all sorts of ass hat fuckery with their time line. What you said was true, but so was what bob said.

We're both right but the differance is Im actually up to date with the facts.

Actually, recently the gods changed her origin. Thus, Diana never put on the costume, nor received the lasso, Hippolyta never went back in time to be Wonder Woman. Though whats going on with Cassie and Donna I have no idea. Any who, so actually in Wonder Woman, there is no Wonder Woman as of yet, though she still flies around with the JLA.

 

[Amund]

I always thought the villians were more important in making a good movie.

I don't know any wonderwoman villians.

Cheetah = an archaeologist who was turned into a cheetah demon cat person thing.

Giganta = A woman who's super power is to grow to gigantic sizes, though the bigger she gets the dumber she gets.

Dr. Psycho = A psychotic psychic who makes people insane, and I think likes to rape women.

Circe = An ancient goddess level witch who is also an extreme feminist. She once took Wonder Woman's powers and went around the world killing pimps, human traffickers and what not.

Silver Swan = Friend turned enemy, also a cyborg, and can scream really loud.

Wonder Woman has two decent villains, two "fun" ones, and a friend turned evil at one point.

Thanks.

Personally I don't think those are great villians (compared to Batmans symbolism) but I suppose its all in the delivery. So they could probably make a decent movie.

Well Wonder Woman is all about feminism, Circe is about the same thing, only she takes it to an extreme. That could be a great villain. Dr. Psycho is a misogynist a hateful man who can turn people insane. Kind of like Scare Crow, yes? Giganta, basically shes a villain about the stronger a woman is physically, the dumber she has to be. Cheetah and Silver Swan, not sure again.

 

[HentMas]

Is it just me or bob just changed "THE BIG PICTURE" for "THE BIG OPPINION ON COMICS AND MOVIES ABOUT THEM... and the geeks who love them" With BOOOOOB CHIPMAAAAAN!!!!! *aplause*

or something

anyway, if there is ever a reboot of this material, hell, i think it would work even more right now than before, seing the "Taliban" treatment on women and its customs, making them the perfect scapegoat (and a common humanity villian) and putting "USA" in the high ground.

 

[SandroTheMaster]

They only allowed women because they were running out of men and had to put somebody in a uniform to fight.

then again i think the highest sniper kills on record are held by a Russian woman.

And still, women in 40s Russia were better treated than women in 70s. Only in the 80s did women receive the RIGHT to receive combat training, and even then it was only defensive combat training. Even today the US limits women roles in the military mostly to non-combat roles. But I guess WW2 was a breakthrough for women in the military, after all, they finally received the right to help the army in different roles than nurses. Like... operating phones...

While Russia has always had a patriarchal military and made things difficult for women, they do allow women in the army and since the 90s they were re-allowed in combat roles like in WW2. Also Russia boasts one of the highest ratio of women:men, even though it is 1:9.

 

[Laughing Phoenix]

See, here's the thing. I feel oddly removed from the issue of sex appeal in her costume. It looks absurd, of course, but so does every other superhero costume out there. I agree with what some have said earlier: if they were going to change her outfit, they should have changed it so she looks more like an ancient greek warrior. I take it on face value that she is a feminist and that her interpretation of feminism would invariably change to match the current standing popular definition of feminism.

What I get so confused by is why is it so hard to handle her in a movie. Why can't the creative types see that Wonder Woman kicks butt? And lots of it?

You guys see Lynda Carter, I see a female Leonidas. You guys see an antique, I see the member of the Big Three most likely to kill and not regret it. You guys see a Superman-wannabe, I see one of the few flying brick superheroes who actually has the martial arts training and strategic mindset to use her superhuman strength effectively and precisely in combat instead of relying on a whole bunch of blind haymakers. You guys see a cute and nonthreatening "girl", I see a soldier ready to grab an axe, shield and spear and throw down with Greek mythologies baddest monsters without so much as batting an eye. You guys are talking feminism, I'm watching her cut off Metallo's head, roar and hold it up like a trophy in the DCUO trailer. Take Hercules, throw in some Leonidas military training, make him a hot Amazonian woman, and give her a power boost to the appropriate superheroic levels and give her a nice magical arsenal to boot. How is this difficult to make cool?

And yet, she's a principled war machine. She's trying to uphold virtues that are high and lofty and she's willing to walk the walk needed to follow a philosophy of peace first. It's not dogmatic either; she isn't stupid or blind. She actually believes in Truth with a capital "T". (I still think one of her best showings is when she walked through magical balefire that ignited a person's flesh with the self-deception in their soul relatively unscathed.) This isn't Superman's "I just folks" brand of ethics, and it's not Batman's reactionary "War on Crime" stance. It something she adheres to of her own accord.

Yes, a lot of things in her past are kinda stupid. I agree with Bob that she got less weird, and I for one don't mind and my interpretation of her is fairly recent. The bondage subtext is silly and undermines her stance on feminism. Her bikini look makes -everyone- think she's an American and separates her from the rich Greek mythology she comes from. All I know is that if they do ever make a Wonder Woman movie, and there is not at least one fight scene where doesn't get to slay a mythic monster "Jason and the Argonauts" style on the Colisseum floor to the roar of a crowd, I'll feel cheated.

 

[Jynks]

WW is awesome. I've been reading comic all my life and she is defiantly one of my fav characters of all time. This little video tribute while awesome failed to talk about how she has changed over time into a modern entity. It is like talking about superman and still going on about the boy scout that rescues cats from trees instead of how he is depicted today.

I have been waiting for a WW movie for a long time but I have absolutely no faith that it would be done in any way that is worth watching. It would almost assured to be turned into a chick running around a city fighting criminals. When it should be gods and monsters fighting across dimensions. But this is the problem with comic book movies in general, they are so watered down and weak that they barley resemble the characters they are based on.

All in all I loved your video and now have another reason to come to this site than zero punctuation.

 

[Mysnomer]

Well Wonder Women is my favorite female super hero. But she better look out for Pepper Pots whom thanks to some handy work from Tony is now Iron Women.

P.S. I know her real hero name is "Rescue" but I just don't like it

I always thought the distaff counterpart [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DistaffCounterpart] of Iron Man would be called "Iron Maiden." It just seems like too much of a fit to pass up.

I don't know if I'm right but I think the title "All the world is waiting" is a line from the theme song for the Wonder Woman tv show starring Linder Carter (it is a very silly theme song but by the end of season 1 it grew on me, I hated how they changed it in season 3)

EDIT - I asked Movie Bob and he said that the title is indeed a reference to the line from the song. Who else noticed that?

I did, but it was one of my quiet rage moments, because the song got stuck in my head. I...I can sing the whole song if the music's playing. *falls to knees* Why God? Why?! WHY~~~?! D:

Anyway, I don't know enough about Wonder Woman to say I could sift through all the dross and wreckage of her multiple origin stories to find the perfect amalgam, but I've read a few pretty interesting ideas in this thread, so I have hope that the missing piece of the DC trinity will find her place.

 

[GeekChaser]

Actually, Bob . . . I don't find a polyamorous, kinky comic creator who believed in female supremacy to be very "out there" at all.

Then again, I do live in the San Francisco Bay Area. Those guys are a dime a dozen out here.

 

[370999]

I never really liked WW at all. You see to me, characters that are solely about one political issuse are not really good characters as often they seem to lack depth, or any real humanity beyond instead being like propaganda robots. I'm not saying a Female superhero couldn't have feminist veiws, far from it, but if she is just the Femenist One then she isn't that appealing to me, in much the same way that Captain Planet is not cool.

As for the new costume, meh. I can't see someone being able to argue that wearing a leotard is less sexist then what she wears now. Mind you if it was me she would wear yoga pants, sneakers, a tracksuit top and a balaclava so obviously I'm not one for garish costumes.

 

[Primus1985]

The origin described in the video is the original one from Marston's original run on the title, a lot of the details have since changed. Stephen Hawking couldn't keep functional track of DC history, at this point

Hippolyta time-traveling to the 40s was a late-90s retcon from a John Byrne book to patch fix the continuity hole left by WW's post-Crisis reboot in the mid-80s, subsequently undone by Infinite Crisis bringing back the Multiverse and then undone again by the current Stracyzinski series (which is probably going to "erase itself" at the conclusion.) Likewise, the bracelets being just another weapon from the gods is from the same George Perez reboot, post-Crisis.

Still its not her actual story, im a stickler for comic character history



Still, post crisis is like a long time ago. I mean if your doing a video for a web magazine do your freakin research.

I've watched the video again and he makes it pretty clear that as he is not talking about the history of the character as it stands today but about the character as envisioned by the original creator.

Your complaint about him not discussing the updated origin is therefore moot.

Ah I see. Well no harm done then.



And feter doing some searching Diana does indeed have a multitude of differnt origins. I didnt even hear about the whole made of clay thing till a few years ago.



Why is it so hard to give her a accurate story? I mean Batman, Green Lantern, Superman, all have more or less concrete origins. Why would it be so hard for WW to have one?


Thats probably why her movie and series fell through, they dont have anything concrete to work with as a base, and her modern stories are drivel. Especially in recent years.



I bet if you put Gail Simone and Grant Morrison on her title and told them to make her badass again it'd be done in a year.

 

[Vault Citizen]

The origin described in the video is the original one from Marston's original run on the title, a lot of the details have since changed. Stephen Hawking couldn't keep functional track of DC history, at this point

Hippolyta time-traveling to the 40s was a late-90s retcon from a John Byrne book to patch fix the continuity hole left by WW's post-Crisis reboot in the mid-80s, subsequently undone by Infinite Crisis bringing back the Multiverse and then undone again by the current Stracyzinski series (which is probably going to "erase itself" at the conclusion.) Likewise, the bracelets being just another weapon from the gods is from the same George Perez reboot, post-Crisis.

Still its not her actual story, im a stickler for comic character history



Still, post crisis is like a long time ago. I mean if your doing a video for a web magazine do your freakin research.

I've watched the video again and he makes it pretty clear that as he is not talking about the history of the character as it stands today but about the character as envisioned by the original creator.

Your complaint about him not discussing the updated origin is therefore moot.

Ah I see. Well no harm done then.



And feter doing some searching Diana does indeed have a multitude of differnt origins. I didnt even hear about the whole made of clay thing till a few years ago.



Why is it so hard to give her a accurate story? I mean Batman, Green Lantern, Superman, all have more or less concrete origins. Why would it be so hard for WW to have one?


Thats probably why her movie and series fell through, they dont have anything concrete to work with as a base, and her modern stories are drivel. Especially in recent years.



I bet if you put Gail Simone and Grant Morrison on her title and told them to make her badass again it'd be done in a year.

That would indeed be awesome. Another reason why I think its harder for Wonder Woman is that she has no instantly recognisable villains, I think a Wonder Woman movie would have to give her a villain that the movie goers could say "Wonder Woman villain" in the same way that most people will know that Joker is a Batman villain.
Ah I see. Well no harm done then.

 

[SomeBritishDude]

I've got to be honest Bob; I'm not a big fan of your movie reviews. You may not be much of a critic, but your a damn good geek discussion-er/ranter.

Liking this episode and personally I've always though it's a little sad that one of few really well know female superheroes is so badly written and is, most of the time, pretty lame.

What would I do to the character? She's a greek hero right? Well stick her in ancient greece. I could really imagine Wonder Woman as DCs frontier character for more ancient myth style stories. Give us some excuse to send her back in time to a point where she can meet with the gods on mount olympus and fight minosaurs and other creatures outside greek mythology but within mythology of the time on a regular basis.

Would she be missed from the Justice League?...Probably. But there's plenty of woman characters who could take her place who could do with a little lime light.

(Bare in mind that even as a comic book nerd my knowledge of Wonder Woman doesn't really exist outside the animated movies. Please excuse any ignorant stupidity within this post)

 

[dragonburner]

weeeeeeeeeird

 

[cerebus23]

Members of the Escapist Community, hear thee well:

Wonder Woman as written by Gail Simone is golden. Pass it on.

Thou speaks the truth. I have read The Circle, and it was good.

Truthfully, most superhero concepts are patently absurd:

Superman: a baby from another planet given his superpowers by the sun
Spiderman: Bitten by a radioactive/genetically modified spider
Green Lantern: Given a ring that allows him to create anything in hard light thanks to a glowing green thing.

etc


Wonder Woman's origins are no sillier, though I liked the one they used in the animated movie: sculpted from clay, a drop of Hippolyta's own blood, and blessed by the Greek Gods with strength equal to Hercules, the speed of Hermes, the wisdom of Athena and the beauty of Aphrodite (though that is never said, its the most popular theory I'm aware of). The scene is very beautiful and has wonderful music.

Also, a young Australian based fan artist created this:

HIs renditions of Harley Quinn, Super Girl, Catwoman, Green Lantern are also excellent

From: http://fanartexhibit.wordpress.com/

I say get Gail Simone to write the treatment, strip away the excess nonsense and distill the character into a workable but not bastardized version of herself.

That fan art is the bomb, very cool thanks.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

See, here's the thing. I feel oddly removed from the issue of sex appeal in her costume. It looks absurd, of course, but so does every other superhero costume out there. I agree with what some have said earlier: if they were going to change her outfit, they should have changed it so she looks more like an ancient greek warrior. I take it on face value that she is a feminist and that her interpretation of feminism would invariably change to match the current standing popular definition of feminism.

What I get so confused by is why is it so hard to handle her in a movie. Why can't the creative types see that Wonder Woman kicks butt? And lots of it?

You guys see Lynda Carter, I see a female Leonidas. You guys see an antique, I see the member of the Big Three most likely to kill and not regret it. You guys see a Superman-wannabe, I see one of the few flying brick superheroes who actually has the martial arts training and strategic mindset to use her superhuman strength effectively and precisely in combat instead of relying on a whole bunch of blind haymakers. You guys see a cute and nonthreatening "girl", I see a soldier ready to grab an axe, shield and spear and throw down with Greek mythologies baddest monsters without so much as batting an eye. You guys are talking feminism, I'm watching her cut off Metallo's head, roar and hold it up like a trophy in the DCUO trailer. Take Hercules, throw in some Leonidas military training, make him a hot Amazonian woman, and give her a power boost to the appropriate superheroic levels and give her a nice magical arsenal to boot. How is this difficult to make cool?

And yet, she's a principled war machine. She's trying to uphold virtues that are high and lofty and she's willing to walk the walk needed to follow a philosophy of peace first. It's not dogmatic either; she isn't stupid or blind. She actually believes in Truth with a capital "T". (I still think one of her best showings is when she walked through magical balefire that ignited a person's flesh with the self-deception in their soul relatively unscathed.) This isn't Superman's "I just folks" brand of ethics, and it's not Batman's reactionary "War on Crime" stance. It something she adheres to of her own accord.

Yes, a lot of things in her past are kinda stupid. I agree with Bob that she got less weird, and I for one don't mind and my interpretation of her is fairly recent. The bondage subtext is silly and undermines her stance on feminism. Her bikini look makes -everyone- think she's an American and separates her from the rich Greek mythology she comes from. All I know is that if they do ever make a Wonder Woman movie, and there is not at least one fight scene where doesn't get to slay a mythic monster "Jason and the Argonauts" style on the Colisseum floor to the roar of a crowd, I'll feel cheated.

I agree with EVERYTHING you have just said.

 

[KhakiHat]

*looks at training montage slide*

Training. Riiiiigggghhhhtt.

 

[Darkauthor81]

I greatly prefer her new costume actually. I've always hated her old costume. It made her look like a stripper on the forth of July.

I know it's a mainstay for women heroes to wear next to nothing and have chests so big they need their super strength to stand up straight. But Wonder Woman's costume was both skimpy AND obnoxiously patriotic. This is a hold over from the days when the government was desperately trying to shut comic books down so the designers made their heroes extremely patriotic in an attempt to keep their jobs. (It didn't work and the government regulations effectively killed the comic book industry for a decade before it was repealed)

But that's over now. We can stop putting wonder woman in a flag/stripper costume.

 

[Pedro The Hutt]

You guys see Lynda Carter, I see a female Leonidas. You guys see an antique, I see the member of the Big Three most likely to kill and not regret it. You guys see a Superman-wannabe, I see one of the few flying brick superheroes who actually has the martial arts training and strategic mindset to use her superhuman strength effectively and precisely in combat instead of relying on a whole bunch of blind haymakers. You guys see a cute and nonthreatening "girl", I see a soldier ready to grab an axe, shield and spear and throw down with Greek mythologies baddest monsters without so much as batting an eye. You guys are talking feminism, I'm watching her cut off Metallo's head, roar and hold it up like a trophy in the DCUO trailer. Take Hercules, throw in some Leonidas military training, make him a hot Amazonian woman, and give her a power boost to the appropriate superheroic levels and give her a nice magical arsenal to boot. How is this difficult to make cool?

Well the DCUO trailer is also the biggest out of character pile of rubbish I've seen related to DC in quite a while.

Granted, I might have only read Gail Simone's Wonder Woman comics (if you haven't read those yet, GET THEM), but one of her key points is that she's a highly compassionate character. If there is an even remote possibility that she can resolve a situation without force she will seize it with both hands and not let go. She may be the spirit of truth but she's not judge and executioner. And if at all possibly she'd really, really, really rather not kill. She will if there is no other option, but she won't like it, and she will be hurting inside over it.

In a sense, she strikes me as a female version of the Doctor. In several regards, she looks perfectly human, but she isn't, she's constantly trying to fit in with humans, but always falls just slightly short. But she will do whatever she can to protect them. She also can achieve much with just the spoken word, and can reduce grown men to weeping wrecks. Granted, she gets assisted by using the lasso of truth by making them see the truth about themselves, what terrible empty shells of themselves they've become (to give an example), but just like the Doctor she can make terrifying people back down without using force. And woe betide you if you do make her use it. (Although she does cause way less fatalities than your average adventure with the Time Lord)

But, Bob, this is a little unsettling, this is the second video where you tackle a topic which Linkara from over on TGWTG has tackled years ago, the first being One More Day. He spent twenty minutes detailing her origins and explaining just why she is a pretty damn awesome character (and that you must read Gail Simone's work on the character)... only to then spend three videos showing why Amazons Attack was the biggest imaginable insult to Diana and everything she stands for.

Although, at this point, Diana needs all the love and positive exposure she can get.

 

[Panda Mania]

All The World Is Waiting

This week, Bob looks at the origins of our favorite Amazonian.

Watch Video

Eh, I didn't mind the costume change.

The original idea of women's empowerment, at least through Marston's presentation, reads more like male wish fulfillment that pays lip service to women's rights. Basically, wrap the story around how women can be strong and cast of chains and blah blah blah... and use that as an excuse to put some eye candy in there for the dudes. An island full of (exclusively) beautiful women untouched by men? Loads of bondage? A superhero built out of legs and cleavage?

I really don't think comics have found the balance between presenting a woman's independent sexuality as power... and just exploiting the sexuality of women with superpowers. Just because a woman's boobs are the source of her power over us as men doesn't mean that they're the rightful symbol of her strength.

(Don't get me wrong. I like boobs. But I also understand wanting to match Wonder Woman's appearance to her alleged ideals.

Yeah, it's depressing. I highly doubt the art will change though...we just couldn't make a female superhero movie without at least some spandex-cleavage!

 

[mptothedc]

I would love to see Quentin Tarantino do a Wonderwoman movie. I think he's proved he can make a great woman protagonist.