The Big Picture: Batman Revisited, Part 3

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

This time MovieBob takes a good look at Batman Forever and its villains.

Per the teaser for the next one; It was the Bat-Nipples, wasn't it?

 

[TheMadJayWoman]

I wouldn't blame Schumacher for derailing the franchise after the disaster of Batman Returns.

 

[gorfias]

The less said about Jones's Two-Face the better. Man, I hated that character.

Me too. The "stunt casting" was NOT the problem. TLJ was a very good choice and it showed when speaking to the Pizza guy. But then, I can hear the producers: "we want him to be more like Nicholson's Joker" and he isn't. He isn't manic, he's angry and torn. That doesn't come across at all. I hate the invasion of Wayne Manor and the final conflict of heroes and villains.

Other than that, I think a great deal of this movie works, which is rather a lot. I rather liked Robin, in this movie.

So what, in the end, spoiled it for me aside from misuse of 2 face and lousy but tolerable ending? I haven't read it here yet, but here it is.

THIS MOVIE had the worst, ugliest sound track I have ever, ever, ever heard. It "stinks in the ear." Someone should re-release this movie redubbed!

 

[Arkynomicon]

I loved the gothic Burton Batman style and hated the neon rubbish crap that 3 and 4 was (when I was around age 10).

If nothing else I really missed Michael Keaton a lot. To me he was Bruce Wayne when I was a kid.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Ooh, I can't wait for next week. It's going to be fun.

i know right? to bad its to early for pop corn

 

[ms_sunlight]

Don't you dare suggest that anger at Schumacher is nothing but poorly-disguised homophobia. It's nothing of the sort.

It's not, but I (like you) am old enough to remember when the film came out and although there are a lot of legitimate reasons to criticise the film, I remember a lot of the criticism at the time of its release being expressed in a homophobic manner.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Chris O'Donnell's career has only just recovered thanks to NCIS:LA

Every time I see Chris O'Donnell I keep thinking that had their Batman series survived, he'd have made an awesome live action Nightwing.

 

[Sudowoodo]

Definitely one of your most interesting series of videos, Moviebob.

I know you're probably going to keep your discussion of the films to the live action ones. But what is your opinion of Mask of the Phantasm? Ebert and Roeper both claimed to have enjoyed it more than the live action ones, and I definitely see it as a fantastic addition to the animated series. It just never had the box office success of the previous live action films.

 

[maximara]

Yes, I'm one of the Batman fans that hate Robin. Batman is the iconic loner--brooding--stoic type, and it works. But when you throw in Robin that's when it starts the conflict with the nature of Batman and what we understand about him. Now I'm not even against the idea of another younger version of Batman running around the in the same universe (that might work with Batman on occasion), but once again, Batman is the lone--brooding stoic type that would never EVER take on a protege; at least that's my opinion. And the years and years I've spent watching the two together and shaking my head is conformation enough that it doesn't work!

Actually, if you listen to Mr. Freeze in the animated series episode "Cold Comfort" it *does* work--Robin is in essence Batman's attempt at having a surrogate son. In fact, the Robin character has been in the comics as far back as April 1940--just 11 months less then Batman himself (May 1939).

The surrogate son concept has come full circle in the comics with Robin now being Batman's actual son--Damian Wayne.

 

[crazyrabbits]

Chris O'Donnell's career has only just recovered thanks to NCIS:LA

Meanwhile, Alicia Silverstone is languishing in a corner, begging Christopher Nolan to give her another chance.

 

[Tarkand]

I actually learned that Schumacher is gay by reading the comments here... and yet, I consider Batman & Robin to be one of the worse movie I ever saw and I came to that conclusion without my innate homophobic tendencies to guide me, put that in your pipe and smoke it Bob.

 

[Nomanslander]

Yes, I'm one of the Batman fans that hate Robin. Batman is the iconic loner--brooding--stoic type, and it works. But when you throw in Robin that's when it starts the conflict with the nature of Batman and what we understand about him. Now I'm not even against the idea of another younger version of Batman running around the in the same universe (that might work with Batman on occasion), but once again, Batman is the lone--brooding stoic type that would never EVER take on a protege; at least that's my opinion. And the years and years I've spent watching the two together and shaking my head is conformation enough that it doesn't work!

Actually, if you listen to Mr. Freeze in the animated series episode "Cold Comfort" it *does* work--Robin is in essence Batman's attempt at having a surrogate son. In fact, the Robin character has been in the comics as far back as April 1940--just 11 months less then Batman himself (May 1939).

The surrogate son concept has come full circle in the comics with Robin now being Batman's actual son--Damian Wayne.

First off, I don't care what choices the writers made (even the originals), because the idea doesn't work with me.

Second, if I had a son, the last thing I would want to do is get him involved with "such" a family business.

Sorry it just doesn't work for me, I don't care how long Robin has been around. He was originally added to attract younger audiences by making Batman seem less dark, and that just goes against everything I see in Batman. It's an opinion...but it's mine...so fuck Robin. And I'm with Christian Bale on this, I'd probably chain myself next to him in protest if they ever decided to bring him back in.

Um, where did the whole gay super-hero thing come from?

I'm pretty sure he's going to talk about Robin next; knowing how Moviebob feels about this, he's going to start calling "homophobia" when it comes to the whole ambiguity thing that Robin has indirectly brought to the series. I could be wrong, but I've been watching Moviebob's vids long enough to know where a lot of his opinions stand and direction of thinking heads in...

Just wait and see. -_-

 

[Lieju]

This movie was such a waste. And that's why I hated it. It could have taken the campy 60's tv series style I love and made a good movie with plot and characterization. But it didn't.

Jim Carrey could have made an excellent Riddler, but the script and direction didn't let him. He was just all manic all the time. Gorshin had that, too, but he could go from manic giggling to silently threatening in an instant. Carrey could have depicted that side as well.

And Two-face was totally wasted, and I can't comprehend why he is also so giggling and manic, especially since he is paired with Riddler, who is played similarly.

I don't actually hate 'Batman and Robin', it's stupidity at least amuses me. This one, I can see how it could have been great...

 

[Skrableren]

PLEASE OH GOD, CAN WE JUST SKIP IT!?!? omg I'm beggin' here.. arrrggg...

 

[ms_sunlight]

Jim Carrey could have made an excellent Riddler, but the script and direction didn't let him. He was just all manic all the time. Gorshin had that, too, but he could go from manic giggling to silently threatening in an instant. Carrey could have depicted that side as well.

You've got to remember though that, at the time, Jim Carrey was a stand-up comic who was known for turning in over-the-top comedy performances in Ace Ventura and The Mask. He hadn't shown then just how good an actor he actually is, so perhaps it's not surprising that he wasn't used in that way.

 

[Lieju]

Jim Carrey could have made an excellent Riddler, but the script and direction didn't let him. He was just all manic all the time. Gorshin had that, too, but he could go from manic giggling to silently threatening in an instant. Carrey could have depicted that side as well.

You've got to remember though that, at the time, Jim Carrey was a stand-up comic who was known for turning in over-the-top comedy performances in Ace Ventura and The Mask. He hadn't shown then just how good an actor he actually is, so perhaps it's not surprising that he wasn't used in that way.

That's no excuse. If the director (or whoever was in the end in charge of this stuff) wanted to get a more balanced performance from him, he could have. And if he couldn't, or thought he couldn't, why cast someone who wasn't up to the task?

The answer is, I think, that since the audience was used to the kind of comedy from Carrey where he just is over-the-top, they thought it was safest to play on that, to give the audience what they expected, as opposed to what worked for the character and plot.

 

[Alfador_VII]

How can Bob go through a couple of rants about the casting without mentioning that they got one of the worst non-actors in Hollywood, Val Kilmer to play Batman? His range varies from tree to plank, with not much in between.

OK, I agree that Tommy Lee Jones is way out of place, but I liked Jim Carrey in this, despite not liking a lot of his movies.

 

[roushutsu]

I haven't seen Batman Forever in ages, but the one thing that sticks out in my mind is Jim Carrey's Riddler. Yeah it's over the top cheesy, but everyone else came off bland and ultimately forgettable to me.

 

[Davroth]

I thought offiacal sexism month was already over..

I sincerely hope this doesn't add to the recent shitstorm. I'm getting rather sick of it.

 

[ms_sunlight]

I thought offiacal sexism month was already over..

I sincerely hope this doesn't add to the recent shitstorm. I'm getting rather sick of it.

I'm sure you are. I certainly am. Maybe it will end when people stop being sexist arseholes but I wouldn't hold your breath.