The Big Picture: Correctitude

[rorymclean12]

i feel like a dick when i say i think bill hicks is increadably funny

 

[k-ossuburb]

Along the lines of those comedians you mentioned, I'd like to add one more: Doug Stanhope.

Seriously, check him out, he knocks on everything from politics to race, from religion to gender and everything in between. I'd embed a Youtube video clip but I think it'll ruin the surprise, your best bet is to look up "Doug Stanhope, voice of America" where he did a few short pieces for a show on the BBC by Charlie Brooker that satirized the news.

If he doesn't make you laugh he'll at least be able to inspire you, I can't recommend him highly enough, I suppose the best I can come up with is that I've heard many call him "the new George Carlin".

 

[Maur DL]

Hmmm, another Big Picture I don't really agree with Bob on, or at least don't share his enthusiasm for. Feels like this is kind of turning into a platform/soapbox for his (from what I can gather) liberal/leftist ideology rather than discussing any kind of broader all-encompassing objective analysis. Or at least that's sort of what I was expecting from something called "The Big Picture". I agree that you should call out douchebags when they are being douches, but things like how Shirley Sherrod was fired because of what she said and not what she meant make out-of-control political correctness a more legitimate issue than some internet troll's rhetorical defense.

 

[Saint of M]

Wow, one of your videos I don;t completely agree with.

While I agree with alot of what you said, including most of the political correct crap just being that from a few nutters, its still a very real thing out there.

The fact is if someone was going to call Capcom out for being racist they should have done it with a Resident Evil 4 for the depiction of Spaniards. After all is it any better to kill people of European nations then it is people from African ones?

Another issue with being politically correct is the fact that people are afraid they will be sued because they offended someone.

For crying out loud, there was a kid at my old high school in Castro Valley CA that got suspended for bringing an American Flag on Cinco De Mayo because bringing the flag was racially insensitive. he brought an American flag, that was it.

 

[Maur DL]

I'm of the opinion that conservatism and liberalism need each other to keep each other in balance.

But Bob seems to favour want a power imbalance where liberal perspective can slaughter any sacred cows of the other side but no reciprocation.

Yeah, I think I was trying to say something similar. Everyone has their own beliefs and perspectives but this is beginning to feel a little heavy handed.

 

[Treblaine]

I'm of the opinion that conservatism and liberalism need each other to keep each other in balance.

But Bob seems to favour want a power imbalance where liberal perspective can slaughter any sacred cows of the other side but no reciprocation.

Yeah, I think I was trying to say something similar. Everyone has their own beliefs and perspectives but this is beginning to feel a little heavy handed.

Yeah, liberalism has a lot to do, both in general and for America in particular, but wherever you think something is "too much" as in "you can't joke about that" that is the path to injustice.

I think it weird that MovieBob gets so worked up about fried chicken jokes then brings up George Carlin who is a known as a champion for freedom of speech by arguing you can even make jokes about rape. Rape is a word, that MEANS something but how can you joke about that but not fried chicken?

AH but it was conservatives who argued that George Carlin couldn't joke about sex, Rape being the most extreme example. So maybe that's why MovieBob glossed over it but Carlin's argument is universal! If you can joke about something as horrible as that then you can joke about black people eating fried chicken.

I think towards the end MovieBob just got angry and lost focus, started lashing out without thinking about how extreme he was going, how he contradicted his poignant initial argument. But then again, he did say this was his format, no editing, not assessment, jsut throwing his thoughts out with all the human fallibility that comes with that.

 

[punipunipyo]

so... afro-man for Loki in Thor? is Bob trying to defend? I don't mind... infect... I didn't even notice that... Perhapes i was just not sensitive enough to catch all that stuff... I did hate all that negative stuff that the media put up now days...

 

[Orekoya]

Not bad, but I don't remember the resident evil 5 racism scandal being quite like how you portray it. I'm pretty sure the complaints were "whitey killing blacks" and not "misuse of tribal imagery" But hey, I could be wrong.

Edit: Before the MovieBob defense force comes to crucify me, here's a quote from a group of the complainer's since the original article has been taken down.
http://gamepolitics.com/2007/08/01/african-womens-blog-critical-of-resident-evil-5-trailer

What really got me during that whole trailer scandal is that they raised a fuss over that because it was about whitey killing darkies because he had to; meanwhile, Uncharted came out and was about white killing darkies to steal their shit and nobody batted an eye.

 

[Semi-Human]

I like how P.C. fighters where Democrats but the Republicans where jerks. Someones bias is showing.

Not really, saying that Republicans were against PC is just correct. Hell they also made up some PC boogeymen that still exists. Take the "War on Christmas"

Well take the Grey Anatomy actor calling co-star a ******. He should never been fired because he didn't say as a representative of the show when he said it. Or South Park Allah controversy. P.C. is real.

Of course he should be fired. It doesn't mater whether or not he was acting as a representative of the show or not. Why on earth would they let some asshat ruin the work environment for every one?

If you think its any different then call your boss a asshole and see how long you keep that job, is that P.C as well?

 

[Cabisco]

It's nice to see someone point this out, theirs a British comedian Stewart Lee who summed it up brilliantly.

Sense someone all ready posted that I will simply counter it with someone mentioned in the Bob's video.


(I couldn't find the stand up version so it's an audio book version).

You know when listening to this the thought occurred that some people would mistake Carlin for a huge conservative and Bob's "Fair Game" show immediately came to mind.

(Captcha: We're actiev)

Thats a pretty interesting audio book, I'm in fact considering listening to some more. I also can see why people would think he is a massive conservative from the audiobook, just for the repeated mention of 'Liberal'.

Political correctness has always intrigued me, it's a safe bet theirs always one side overeacting to a situation involving it.

 

[Dak_N_Jaxter]

This episode has really befuddled me.
Throughout I was so sure that the overall point was how some people use political correctness as a form oppression, or as Jeff put it, "Not being racist is the new Racist".
I've never really spoken to anyone who's used it as a barrier in that way.

I guess pretty much anything can be a two way street and get exploited. Just like how the KKK can get away with saying that non-whites are bad because of free-speech.

I can definitely agree with the fact that anything goes, so long as you're not being a dick. I mean, even I make Racist jokes sometimes, but I've never looked back on it and thought anything of it.

 

[RTR]

The whole "storming the gates/ spitting off the overpass" analogy pretty much sums up troll behavior.

 

[jabrwock]

It could be argued that you can convey just as much of the author's intent with a different word selection. If, in fact, the purpose was to satirize the treatment of black men of the time, that is still demonstrated through how the character is treated, rather than simply what he is called.

See, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. Thor's is a change of color. Huck's is a change of name. Everything else remains the same. It's just a cosmetic change to reflect a different current reality.

I don't see the comparison. N-word has a complete set of literary meaning behind it, slave does not have the same. "He's well spoken for a slave" just doesn't carry the same sense of incredulity that the original phrase would have. "Neanderthal" might be a better fit, but of course that's a bit of a stretch for Huck to use.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

I really disagree with the Res 5 and Thor points. I do see why the Res 5 one could of been the way with the Tribal imagery but the complaint was more white dude kills black dudes. The thing that annoyed me about Thor was out of all the gods they picked the whitest of the white and made him black. That is the part that annoys me and it just seems like massive trollbait. They could of picked anyone else but they picked him.

 

[Ian S]

Can't really say too much to what has already been said here, but like many others, I disagree - at least in general - with what Bob said here. Sadly, Political Correctness HAS gotten out of hand. I'd say the fact that some people have charged others with being PC to get themselves off the hook for saying outrageous things is a symptom of a greater disease. To briefly respond to some specific points:

- Jeff Dunham's comedy IS NOT mean. Obviously Bob, you have a slightly different sense of humor than I and my girlfriend do (I also like MST3K as well), because we think he's hilarious. Carlos Mencia? On the fence about that (though I did like his dig at Kanye West with his "Gold Digger" video parody). Now if you had said, say, Larry the Cable Guy instead of Dunham, I think I'd be more inclined to agree with you.

- RE5 I think was case of too many people taking something and blowing it WAY out of proportion. If Capcom was guilty of anything, it's that they don't have as good an understanding of other cultures because Japan's culture is nowhere near as diverse as the U.S. is.

- Idris Elba as Heimdall: I agree with lowkey_jotun in that his casting had less to do with acknowledging 21st century cultural sensibilities and more to do with pandering to a certain demographic. And has others have pointed out, it makes no sense because there were NO black Norse gods.

I think the big problem with this video, Bob, is that you only had about 5 minutes to make your point when really this kind of topic is something that deserves more like an hour's worth of time. As evidenced by the amount of comments this has generated here, this is anything but a cut-and-dried issue.

Personally, I get the feeling you and I could have a great conversation since we seem to like a lot of the same things, but disagree on some of them just enough to make it interesting. I'd personally like us to do a special podcast show or something in the vein of "At the Movies" where I could be Gene Siskel to your Roger Ebert. Just something to consider.

 

[Normandyfoxtrot]

I really disagree with the Res 5 and Thor points. I do see why the Res 5 one could of been the way with the Tribal imagery but the complaint was more white dude kills black dudes. The thing that annoyed me about Thor was out of all the gods they picked the whitest of the white and made him black. That is the part that annoys me and it just seems like massive trollbait. They could of picked anyone else but they picked him.

Frankly, considering how often movie makers just fuck the source material so they can have their vaunted creative freedom. Bitching about them selecting a competent, Nay, good actor to play a character simply because he's a different ethnicity ; which I should point is a utterly trivial separation to begin with, is frankly asinine and really has no place in the discussion as far a me myself am concerned.

 

[370999]

I have no beef with you but if we are going to get into a slagging match I don't think there is any real need to keep posting.

And yet here you are.

If you don't want a slagging match, don't engage in rhetoric like "you want the government telling us what to say!" because someone happens not to agree with you about a highly restricted thing like hate-speech laws. That's a stupid thing to say. And when I said you were plainly ill-informed:

Could you explain to me how I am being ignorant.

That was why.

As for what's wrong with Geert Wilders and Fitna (aside from his being a cowardly neo-fascist hypocrite who tries to hide his own attempts to silence other's speech behind the shield of "free speech"): there's volumes to be written about it, and the parallels between his views and those of anti-Semites in the Thirties. No, I'm not going to be your educator on an Escapist comment thread, I've spent too much of my time serving that function for people like yourself on these forums as it is. There's tons of point and counterpoint on Fitna easily available via Google for your research; make use of it. Follow the trial, for that matter, I'm sure there's plenty of detail to be had.

So could you explain to me why you think the recent conviiction of Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff is right as rain in your eyes? As I am looking forward to how you tarnish her as a Nazi. Likewise I mentioned the Canadian court of human rights before, which you seemed to have ignored, I imagine i was slightly too borad, could you please deal with why you think the blogger Mark steyn should have faced a trial and why you think that an organisation whcih openly engages in racist behaviour (see the anti-semetic comments it posted on the pro-nazi websites) should be the arbiter of free speech?

In addition I feel you have slightly missed some of the thrust of my argument. The point was that laws have a habit of snowballing. If you make an organisation capable of dictating what is legal to say, then don't be suprised as the list starts becoming more and more restrictive.

EDIT: On the point of Heimdall, I feel Bob is doing this both ways, I don't see how he can raise his eyebrow at the Last Airbender but this is fine and anyone who says differently si a racist. My personnal opinion is that it does not amtter really,s ure you should try to find a actor who matches the characters description and if the actor is being chosen to fit with a rpe-existing description it is important ( a black Salin? A Japanese Martin Luther King? A white Aztec King?)but in both this case and the Last Airbender it is really not.

I think as well that comedy does need to have an edge to it to be funny, it does need a degree of meanness. Let's be fair, comedy is the most equal oppurtunity gig in hsitory as long as people laugh you are good at it. Arguing that Bill Hick's isn't mean in his comedy is prehaps one of the most blinkered approach to it ever. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be, in fact it is what makes him so funny, but you can't act morally outraged that some other comedian is mean. Yahztee who Bobs admires is brutal in his tone and content but that is why he is funny.

 

[Migratingchimp]

Not very PC this week Bob... lol JK but damn sounds like somebody crapped in your cheerios over the weekend. Fun to watch as always though. Keep up the good work.

 

[HyenaThePirate]

if it isn't racist to say "Peter Parker can't be Black cause his fictionalized character is white and we HAVE to stick to that forever and ever", then we have no real concept or definition for what "racism" is.

It's not racist to demand fictional characters remain consistent. As someone else pointed out, Thor isn't just a comic book character he's a God of a (most-likely) all white culture (the Norse).

Fictional CHARACTER.
In other words, the character can be re-envisioned in any way they want.
I mean, geez, what is a bigger impact on the character, using Thor as an example:

Heimdall, a Norse God being played by a black actor, who actually is probably the best actor in the film if you compared previous films?

The fact that all of the Mythology has been completely altered, for example, that whole "Norse Gods" thing that you used as a reason for why the fictional characters should remain white, yeah, all of that nonsense is gone. Instead, they come from a magical planet. No religious stuff here.

So see?
Besides, these characters were made to appeal to a large audience of people. Superman, Spiderman, and the like, they weren't created to make WHITE people feel superior, or exclude blacks from feeling heroic. They were created so the CHARACTERS, the HEROES, could inspire awe and imagination in the reader. That connection could be made whether the characters were white, black, or whatever.

Want an example? Look at 99% of manga. Heroes and characters with western/white features who are assumed to be Japanese in nationality, doing Japanese things to entertain Japanese readers. I mean, look at Naruto. How many blond, blue eyed Japanese are there? But it doesn't matter to them. Because in their minds, Naruto is as japanese as the rest of them.

 

[drivel]

I don't think Bob even suggested that anyone's right to Free Speech be revoked. I'm pretty sure all he said was if you're being a bigot, or a misogynist, you should be called out for being that.

Moreover, I agree that Jeff Dunham is a hack, and Carlos Mencia is a joke thief. I don't find them funny; but, that's not because they're "mean." It's because their act is wholly unoriginal. The comics that Bob mentioned have done their act before, and they've done it better than any of them could ever dream of doing it. Their material is tired, and I'm tired of seeing their faces.

I'll throw this out because I don't think being mean excludes you from being funny. Yes, it's bullying, but bullying people is funny. This is from a person who was bullied in elementary and middle school. Honestly, I think Daniel Tosh is one of the funniest guys out there right now, and that guy is a JERK. Seriously. But, I can't stop laughing at his jokes. I think that makes me a horrible person. I think I'm OK with that.