The Big Picture: Dumbsday, Part 1 - The Death of Superman

[vallorn]

Except most people aren't screaming at Zoe.

I...didn't say they are, so I'm not sure why you bring that up. Do you think something can only be reprehensible if it's screamed at Ms. Quinn?

My apologies, most people leap straight to the "You are just harrasing Zoe" line... Something that I am quite annoyed by.

Even /v/ have been civil in this.

Uh, okay, but again, not sure what the relevance is here. Did Mr. Chipman specifically accuse /v/ of being uncivil?

It was for emphasis, most of the boards on 4chan are considered by the regular internet users to all be like /b/ or otherwise not pleasant places so I figured it would be a good move to point out the current behavior in this case of a website that often get's labeled 'the asshole of the internet' or other things.

The fact that Bob personally finds something reprehensible is no excuse for lashing out in the way he has been on there. He's a figure in the public eye and like any such figure he should be setting an example by being rational and not abusive to people that he disagrees with.

Everyone on Twitter is a public figure, since their Tweets are available for public consumption, so I assume you hold everyone to that same standard.

Actually, yes I do, I hold everyone to the same standard on there. It's why I'm appalled by the tweets JonTron has been getting telling him to kill himself, appalled by Bob's absurd screaming and I also abhor the harassment that others get (See, Anita. I don't agree with her work but some of the tweets that she got about it were far, far beyond the pale of normal discourse). I don't care what a person says or does on there to 'deserve it' but harassing someone and resorting to slurs and name calling is the sign that a person should simply be ignored or otherwise pushed so that they realize that such an approach to public discourse is nonproductive for everyone involved.

After all, it's our clicks, those of his audience, that pay his bills so insulting some of said audience is a surefire way to push people away to places which don't insult them.

It would appear Mr. Chipman does not care to have such people included among his clientele.

Well, that's quite too bad for him, If he doesn't want people to watch his stuff and become the internet equivalent of a partisan shock jock who sets up his stuff to only appeal to a very specific clientele then that's his prerogative but due to simple economics, both him and The Escapist will suffer financially for it.

 

[JimB]

My apologies, most people leap straight to the "You are just harassing Zoe" line.

No worries. This is a conversation with a lot of baggage...though as I write this line, it also occurs to me that it is a conversation which has nothing at all to do with the posted topic, and as such I must ask you to forgive me for bowing out, but I don't want to tempt fate any more than I already have.

 

[Abyss]

I'm glad that Bob did this video, but I would've liked him to give more explanation as to why Doomsday is dull. I personally find the whole crazy plotline to be inspired, from Superman's sudden death, to four different Supermen taking his place. It's kind of like a crazy DC spin on the Messiah death and resurrection archetype, made crazier by having emerging heroes (or villains) trying to be like the original fallen hero. There's much of Superman lore that I need to study up on. The only reason I know the general plot for The Death and Return of Superman is because of the beat'em up game, and I'm still fascinated by the premise. I like that kind of classic mainstream, weird comic book storytelling. I like it Knightfall too, though I recall Bob finding Bane to be a dull villainized variation of the Hulk.

Bob has his moments where he sounds like Jay Sherman, though the reasons why some people are critical of him I find nonsensical. He may resemble Bombar the God of Flatulence (a reference to The Critic episode, "Marty's First Date"), but he's not super arrogant like Messala the Roman Centurian from Ben-Hur. I aspire to debate him in the future!

 

[Norithics]

You know, if I only got my impressions from comments, I would swear half of Bob's fanbase are comprised of people who are completely dissatisfied with everything he is and does.

 

[RTR]

WHEEEEEEEEEEE 200 episodes!!

I can't believe it's already been almost 2 years since the Freakazoid episode.

Also, that MoS clip is a pretty good reaction meme, all things considered.

 

[Machine Man 1992]

I liked Death of Superman. I read the full trade paperback, but the build up was amazing. Doomsday, I thought, worked as a villain. Who can beat Superman? Well, since brains and technology have been worth jack shit, how about a big spiky abomination that can plow through even the toughest defenses like a eviler version of The Juggernaught?

Actually, to anyone familiar with the imaginary tales of the Silver Age the claim "brains and technology have been worth jack shit" is total garbage. Superman vol 1 #149 (November, 1961) case in point: Luthor finally get devious and slowly builds a confidence with Superman to eventually kill him.

In Action_Comics #385-#387 (1970) the Time Trapper does worst then kill Superman-he traps him in the far future and a malfunctioning time bubble has aged Superman 100,000 years. At the end of the story Superman is propelled to the End of Time itself but instead of facing the Time Trapper he relives his life up the point he entered the Time Bubble unable to say or do anything different.

But we're not in the Silver Age, are we?

A knock down drag out brawl with two combatants of equal power is where it's at. Well, at least I think so.

 

[maximara]

I liked Death of Superman. I read the full trade paperback, but the build up was amazing. Doomsday, I thought, worked as a villain. Who can beat Superman? Well, since brains and technology have been worth jack shit, how about a big spiky abomination that can plow through even the toughest defenses like a eviler version of The Juggernaught?

Actually, to anyone familiar with the imaginary tales of the Silver Age the claim "brains and technology have been worth jack shit" is total garbage. Superman vol 1 #149 (November, 1961) case in point: Luthor finally get devious and slowly builds a confidence with Superman to eventually kill him.

In Action_Comics #385-#387 (1970) the Time Trapper does worst then kill Superman-he traps him in the far future and a malfunctioning time bubble has aged Superman 100,000 years. At the end of the story Superman is propelled to the End of Time itself but instead of facing the Time Trapper he relives his life up the point he entered the Time Bubble unable to say or do anything different.

But we're not in the Silver Age, are we?

A knock down drag out brawl with two combatants of equal power is where it's at. Well, at least I think so.

There were nods to the Silver Age throughout the Post Crisis Superman era: he pulled Streaky the can from under his cape during his second encounter with Mxyzpltk. Supergirl was from a world made to resemble that of the Silver Age Superboy. Later Superman would be split into Superman red and Superman blue which took its premise from the Silver Age and after that Superman would be split across four eras: Gold, Silver, Polyester (ie Bronze), and Future (a retelling of the Superman 2999 ( a retelling of the Silver Age Superman 2965 story).

The Silver Age was very present in 1990s superman...that is why you had stories that were goofy or simply dumb.

 

[Logience]

I can't believe I'm the only one to notice you didn't use "COMICS! ARE! WEIRD!" in this episode.

 

[Ashley Blalock]

Looking at the mistakes of comics in the 90's is kind of a timely topic since there are so many things in the movie industry that seem to harken to that time.

And I have to agree with everyone who said the Justice League cartoon did a far superior job of what would a world without Superman be like.

 

[Something Amyss]

The problem with the death of superman is that he came back. Heroic sacrifice is ruined by the sacrifice being rendered null. I.e. there being no actual sacrifice. Plus the 'how' of how he came back has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever seen in comics... and I've read a lot of X-men comics.

I have to agree with these points. The impact of Superman was supposed to be that he was gone 4 realz and so on. Worse, they gave us four Supermen and asked which one was the real one, but first thing they did was rule out two of them and then they pulled....THAT.

It probably would have had more impact if he stayed dead for longer, his rebirth wasn't stupid, etc.

 

[Deacon Cole]

But anyway, Bob's video reminded me to dust off one of my favourite documentaries:

Max Landis has also pitched a story to DC that would have been an elseworld version of Doomsday that would be a better Superman movie than the last one and probably the next one.


He had also covered the Knightfall storyline, too.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

Sorry, not gonna click or watch the video of someone who condones and defends fat-shaming in the name of social justice.

I apologize for going vaguely off-topic, but Mr. Chipman's conduct is reprehensible and reflects extraordinarily poorly on Escapist for not taking him to task.

 

[RolandOfGilead]

oh yes, that all-star superman was a great end to superman
congrats on 200
supermans yell at the end seems slightly odd out of context but I still liked Man of Steel

 

[RolandOfGilead]

and yeah the superman in the future cause of Toyman episodes were awesome

 

[Freak In Black]

The best reason for some replacement arcs are the costumes. These days that means new skins for the latest game that comes out but it really was awesome the first time you could snipe someone as a power puff girl. So I'm told.

 

[Freak In Black]

Oh, and happy 200. Your lack of false humility may come off as arrogance to someone who has not seen your body of work but, well, screw them.

 

[Triaed]

I am arriving late to the party, but Congratulations, Bob!

I do think that you put a lot of effort and do a great job... and it shows. I disagree with you in many cases and, in others, you articulate with eerily clarity the thoughts and feelings that I cannot express.

Bring on another 200.

OT... I had all Death of Superman books when they came out in the 90s and yeah, they were just "meh"

 

[Jester076]

Congratulations on your 200th episode Bob!!