The Big Picture: Feeding Edge

Saioon

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Aug 25, 2010
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I think this fails to deal with other concerns. Genetically engineering crops includes putting entirely new genes in which have no history of being in that crop, for examply "anti-freeze" bacterial genes into tomatos. This is a step difference from selective breeding. This may have far wider environmental as well as health implications.

While I don't have a problem with these crops in general but I do think there is enough unknown to warrant further study and not to just dismiss people with concerns as not being aware of the facts.
 

walsfeo

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Feb 17, 2010
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messy said:
Selective breeding (I.e with carrots and cows) and genetic engineering are not the same thing. Neither are bad, just genetic engineering isn't just shutting on and off genes its making potatoes provide the correct proteins so they can be used for vaccinations (for human diseases) something which would never happen no matter how many potatoes you bred together.
Agreed - genetic engineering via elective breeding is a significantly different process/issue than genetic engineering through directly tampering with the genetic code. Breeding for specific traits has an equalizing effect that occurs over time with centuries of experience to guide the perpetrators.

Just flipping switches by poking around in the bits is still an activity in it's infancy. Not being cautious about changing the way we create what we eat is foolhardy at best. I don't expect that there will be a problem, but not testing and not evaluating baits trouble.
 

Twotricks

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Dec 16, 2010
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Man! Bob!

I registered just so i can post here. I been following your stuff Bob. And every time a new video pops out you fall deeper in my eyes.

You know your stuff about movies. But your recommendations doesn't worth two pennies. Saying things like "Social Network" is a good film. I would kill my self from shame. A totally empty shell made only to scrape money at box office.

But man

Talking this way about GMO ... and not only this. Being totally ignorant. Comparing selective breeding with genetic engineering. Just made me laugh.

First off dude.

Come over to Europe. And taste the same carrot , this time not genetic engineered.

This alone is deal breaker.


But should we talk about animal genes being introduced into plants ?

Shall we talk about next to no testing for side effects over time ?

Shall we talk about Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease ?


That carrot you just ate , yes it tastes like plastic. But thats beside point. You americanos are used to such tastes by now. But you are introducing something into your system that is basically a cat in a sack. Nobody knows how it affects human body over the time. You are the test bunny.

But shall we talk about harm to the eco system ?

I guess in your limited point of view - it was developed by scientists - and they are smart - so it must be good !

What an embarrassing video.
 

Aolis

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Dec 16, 2010
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This is an incredibly vapid piece that could have come straight out of a Monsanto marketing pamphlet.

What you describe in the first half of the video is actually called breeding, not genetic engineering. The carrot you ate has not been genetically engineered. You could however drink some soy milk or even cola containing HFCS made from corn.

In the second half of the video, you make fun of Frankenstein and point out that we regularly use electricity to revive dead people. This shows a complete lack of understanding of the field of science fiction. Ironic given that you also claim to be a movie reviewer.

I will try to explain it in simple terms for you, they did not have defibrillators in the nineteen century. The goal of a science fiction story is to make us think about how some "future" technology will affect our lives. Not just from a practical use point but also to examine the morality of its use.

Your lack of understanding about science fiction extends to the whole video. At no point do you examine the consequences of moving breeding into the labs in the form of genetic engineering. You seem to assume that people who question technology and progress must be stupid. The name Frankenfood comes from a desire to examine both the positive and negative impacts of this new technology.

What negative impacts could there be from GMO?

1 - In normal breeding, you breed animals that are quite similar. There has been hundreds of years of testing to show that these are safe to eat. Is corn with a new gene taken from a fish safe to eat? Is it considered safe after just six months of testing?

2 - GMO moves the process out of the hands of millions of farmers into the hands of small groups of scientists. Does this negatively affect the farmers?

3 - These small groups of scientists can only look at a limited amount so the thousands of species of corn get concentrated into a small number of GMO varieties. Is this possibly dangerous if those new varieties are all affected by a new disease?

4 - It takes a lot of money to do this so most of these scientists work for corporations. Could this possibly take breeding out of the public domain shared by farmers into the private hands of a few corporations?

5 - Most corporations like to patent their inventions so they can profit off them. Decades of breeding come to a halt for a period of 65 years as soon as the corporation patents a single gene in a plant, like say a resistance to the most popular herbicide, Roundup. Could this possibly hurt society as science waits for the patent protection period to end?

6 - Corporations need to profit from their research so they have large budgets to force compliance from farmers using lawsuits. A single farmer doesn't have the financial means to fight so they settle. Could this be giving too much power to these corporations to dictate their relationships with farmers?

7 - Gaining control over the patented seeds, corporations can force farmers to sign complex contracts where the farmers have to give up the right to collect and reuse the seed for planting next season's crop. If farmers no longer have any control over their own seed, does this give control of the food process over to corporations?

As they say, ignorance is bliss. ;)
 

Slangeveld

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Jun 1, 2010
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HankMan said:
Genetically engineered?
SO WHAT?
<spoiler= Plants are our FRIENDS> http://getandroidstuff.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/plants-vs-zombies-Android.jpg
Edit: What was that screen shot of The Princess' Bride at 1:25 about? Oh right! I forgot about that bit.
Mind sharing? I still have no idea. :O
 

PissOffRoth

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Jun 29, 2010
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Azaraxzealot said:
"WHY IS OUR SPACE PROGRAM BEING SHUT DOWN?!"
Probably because it's burning up millions of taxpayer dollars to just send highly trained people on a vacation in the void. Until we find something out there that's actually worth the cost of getting to it (i.e., natural resources or an inhabitable planet) then it's really not worth the cost.
 

PissOffRoth

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Jun 29, 2010
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Aolis said:
This is an incredibly vapid piece that could have come straight out of a Monsanto marketing pamphlet.
For those out of the know, Monsanto is basically the Umbrella Corporation of food. And you are completely right, Aolis. Only point you missed there is the fact that these newly implanted genes are now mingling with existing breeds of crops, and once these genes are there they can never be removed. If they do prove to be dangerous, we'll be stuck with them. Then we're basically forced to burn the GM corn, eat it and suffer those negative effects, or hope to God that someone saved some unaltered seed.
 

SensibleCrout

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Feb 23, 2010
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MovieBob said:
Imagine a thousand mid-sized farms, each with their own geneticist onhand to work on their "locally engineered" product.
So that's your reaction?
No "sorry for trying to teach without having a clue"?
Not even "sorry, I oversimplified"?
I'm really disappointed. And I'm even more shocked about the comments here. I feel sad and helpless about this display of ignorance.

Really, the comments here changed my view on people. Not because they do not share my opinion but because they are uninformed, refuse to educate themselves but still voice their preconceptions. Does nobody want to know how things really work? Does nobody want to change the world for the better instead for the worse for a change?
 

Redlin5_v1legacy

Better Red than Dead
Aug 5, 2009
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This is a good episode. I never actually heard the truth of the matter, just the propaganda. I just never cared enough to look into it. Well, that and when it was a bigger issue I was a kid.
 

keserak

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Aug 21, 2009
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MovieBob said:
IMO the misconception about Monsanto is that they do their dirty somehow "in spite of" the controversial nature of genetically-modified foods - as though if we were only MORE wary of such things they wouldn't get away with this stuff. Sorry, that doesn't pass the smell test.
It doesn't pass the "smell test" because you pulled that strawman out of your ass. That's not a misconception about Monsanto, that's a viewpoint that has not been expressed in a thread with over 400 replies, and I sure haven't heard it when working with issues involving agribusiness. And that crap about cutting out Monsanto's "monopoly?"

Seriously, Bob, you have no idea what you're talking about. None. You're spewing complete disinformation; epic-level bullshit. It's almost like you're trolling the entire Escapist site.

Monsanto isn't a "monopoly" resulting from a lack of market initiative. It's a freakin' criminal organization. It bribes legislators and government regulators to get its way. It steals from farmers. It practices legal chicanery. It encourages mass starvation. It has egged on hundreds, if not thousands, of suicides in India.

You're using a market concept to try to conceptualize a criminal actor. Wtf is wrong with you on this issue? It's like you've bet someone money you could be more wrong here than anyone on earth.

MovieBob said:
. . . the innevitable torches-n-pitchforks public outcry whenever the words "genetic engineering" come up has made the awarding of University or charity research grants toward such things a practical impossibility . . .
Bob, if you were anymore full of shit your posts could single-handedly end the worldwide demand for petrochemical fertilizer. The idea that public outrage is holding back Monsanto isn't just stupid, it's a vile lie. Monsanto and agribusiness in general tramples over the public interest like an elephant over an anthill every single day. Right now, right this minute there's legislation pending that will place huge regulatory burdens on small farmers that make it difficult for them to store seeds, regulation that serves no saftey purpose, purely to make buying seed from Monsanto more attractive. Corporations can already patent entire genomes, a practice that is de jure illegal but that the patent office allowed in a fit of industry-funded stupidity. Entire nations are fighting tooth and nail with the WTO to keep Monsanto's contamination from screwing up foodstuffs that they've been growing for literally milennia -- and you're thinking that this is comparable to gun control?!

No one is "shutting down" genetic engineering. The only place such restrictions are occuring is in your own fevered, incoherent imagination. You wouldn't be more delusional if your next rant accused the Freemasons and the Bavarian Illuminati of being behind the scornful oppression of agribusiness concerns.

But if you were to move onto such equally unfactual lies, at least your absurdities would convince no one and would be somewhat amusing.

People have been calling you on these lies for quite some time now Bob. It's becoming really obnoxious. You're not just wrong, you're encouraging people to believe something that is horribly wrong. I mean, what do you call someone caught in a multitude of destructive lies who, having been found out, blissfully revels in another smug delusion instead of apologizing?
 

ARKSgtAlpha

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Jul 16, 2009
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i do agree with what bobs saying, i only don't like how seed companies make their seed with a terminator (stops plants from making seed) "so farmers don't have to take extra time plowing their field getting rid of excess seed" yeah sure thats the only reason
 

Aolis

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Dec 16, 2010
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I didn't notice your response when I made my post.

MovieBob said:
Briefly, concerning Monsanto:
They are indeed clearly evil bastards of the highest order, as far as I'm concerned.
I am not trying to say Monsanto is evil or that they have done anything illegal. Can anyone be surprised that any corporation, whose only legal goal is to make money, doesn't make the best moral choice for society? I point out Monsanto to show how they profit at the expense of farmers, consumers and society in general; and that we allow them to do so. They did not intend to, nor was it illegal for them, to take actions that led to mass crop failures and famine. It came from embracing a new technology without considering all the ramifications. Something that this very video is suggesting that we do.

This is an issue that has been growing for 50 years. G.E. was not invented yesterday and the public is not reacting with mass hysteria. People see the negative impacts that this technology has been creating from the way it has been implemented. They are raising warning flags.

My power as a consumer is to choose to buy products from companies that I support. If I have no way to tell if my corn is using a patented gene or not, my only logical recourse is to ban GMO altogether as has been done in Europe. This is not the same as "torches-n-pitchforks public outcry". It is a rational response to a situation consumers have little power over.

MovieBob said:
Imagine a thousand mid-sized farms, each with their own geneticist onhand to work on their "locally engineered" product. So why isn't anyone doing it?

...

Federal funding? Forget it.
Farmers were already doing this in the form of selective breeding. Why would they have invest billions into a brand new research field? Not to mention that they are in the business of farming, not genetic research.

Both the US and Canadian governments have poured billions of dollars into biotechnology. So biotech companies have had a huge financial advantage over the farmers for decades.

The important thing to note is that in the fifties, the farmers did not realize how important all of this would become. They are now starting to realize that they have lost control over their own seeds. Their profit margins have dropped and seed companies profit margins have grown. Monsanto now has control over the whole vertical food chain from seed to supermarket.

You think a thousand farms are going to come out of nowhere and challenge one of the largest corporations in the world? And that the only thing stopping these farmers is public outcry with a side dose of "supervillain"? Any scientist working for farmers would be hailed as a hero. They would also be cut out of the field. Research takes cooperation, which the corporations do not do without some benefit to themselves. Even university researchers have a hard time doing research in this field.

You could just blame the farmers and call them dumb. But their loss affects the very fabric of our society. I feel responsible for creating this situation and am not about to let them go quietly.
 

spiritslayr

Smart AI
Oct 25, 2008
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I think Bob needs to recognise the difference between artificial selection and genetic modification. They are not as similar as he makes out.
Still I'm glad he's doing his part to un-demonise the topic. When my friends and family ask me about it (I'm studying for my biochemistry degree) I explain that all insulin comes from genetically modified E. Coli and that hasn't caused problems.
 

similar.squirrel

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Mar 28, 2009
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Monoculture has a way of killing off other plants if the intended crop is more resilient. That's the risk; fucking up our ecosystems to feed our own greedy asses.
Maybe I'm a hippy.
 

ironlordthemad

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Sep 25, 2009
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I have to admit im giggling a little bit at the number of people willing to put long purple sticks in their mouths but before shit gets Freudian I'll throw my two cents in behind Bob for the first time in a while.

Genetically engineered foods are fine because without them we wouldn't be as strong as we are today, you cant get as much nutrients and on such a large scale with the ancient strains of foods.
But I personally don't want too see too much nutrient boosting in my foods because if we become used too that level of good healthy chemicals in our food, when that level drops it has a bad effect on us and our bodies struggle to deal with it. Its kind of why I don't use alot of medicine like asparin or pain killers. I don't use them for every niggling little pain I have because if I did they would have less of an effect when I really need them.
I know it would take a major diet shift in order to get the kind of effects I'm talking about but I just don't want to get close to that.

Anyway lets back away from my mad ideas and back too the video.

Yeah frankenfood discussions piss me off. You should have seen the sheer volume of dribble when people discovered their foods were being sprayed with pesticides.
 

Makszi

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Apr 1, 2010
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Bob, currently altering genes manually (in a lab) tends to end up creating carcinogenic chemicals in the foods, at least when it comes to fruits and veggies.