The Big Picture: Hollywood History 101: Part 2

Grospoliner

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I would love to watch this video, but the stupid god damn Tekken movie ad has broken it. Dear Escapist, stop sticking crappy pop-out ads on your website.
 

trooper6

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Falseprophet said:
In retrospect, it's not surprising Hollywood missed the boat with teenagers. Adolescence as a social institution didn't really come about until around the 40s and 50s. Most people, especially in the Depression era, couldn't afford to go to school past their pre-teen years. They needed to work, probably to help support their families, and if they weren't treated as adults they were definitely adults-in-training. Post-war prosperity meant more children could stay in high school well into their teens, and that shared social experience, along with other indicators of prosperity like automobiles, was the foundation of North American adolescent culture.

EverythingIncredible said:
Can't wait to hear you talk about the Hay's code. Read up on it last time and it sounds like a bunch of crap.
It was, for the most part. Overall, we're definitely better off with it behind us. On the other hand, a drama teacher friend of mine has a bit of a soft spot for it. When sexuality couldn't be shown explicitly, films had to imply a lot with innuendo, dialogue, facial expressions and symbolism, which left a lot to the imagination. If you've ever seen the classic romantic comedy It Happened One Night, the "Wall of Jericho" is a great example of this.
I'm glad we are going to get a Hayes Code episode, too. It is one of my favorite things to teach about. Too bad we won't get anything more on the rock'n'roll teensploitation films of the 50s/early 60s.

Falseprophet, I have no nostalgia for the Hayes Code era. It completely erased gay people (unless they died at the end), and also aided the erasure of people of color and emancipated women from the screen. By the way, It Happened One Night, while released in 1934, was one of the last films made before the enforcement of the Hayes Code...so it is still a Pre-Code film. But I'd still take Mae West over Claudette Colbert. Heck, I'd take Golddiggers of 1933 or 42nd Street over Sound of Music any day.

There are good films of the Hayes Code era...but...just read the Hayes Code and you'll see some of the issues with it.
 

Saarai-fan

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I'm quite enjoying these videos on Hollywood's history. I'm just wondering how many parts you intend on making on the subject, Bob.

Oh, and if I may say, I also really enjoy those "American Bob" videos you've started to make on Youtube. I especially liked the one where you talked about America's job problems.


I'm just wondering when the next video of American Bob will show up, and what subject you'll talk about in it. Whatever it is, I'll be looking forward to it.
 

tigermilk

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I would have to disagree with Easy Rider (1969) being the signifier for the birth of new/post-classical Hollywood. I would cite Bonnie and Clyde (1967) and The Graduate (1967) as the starting point for post-classical Hollywood. In these two films we see the literal undermining of a previous world order and a European influence in terms of cinematography (specifically the employment of the jump cut (see Breathless (Godard 1959)) in Bonnie and Clyde and the narratives critical of (perceived) dominant mores in both films.

I should acknowledge my opinions are mediated by my contempt for Easy Rider as a self indulgent, smug exploitation film created to placate the perceived 'counter culture'.
 

tigermilk

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trooper6 said:
There are good films of the Hayes Code era...but...just read the Hayes Code and you'll see some of the issues with it.
Including the butchering of Scarface (Hawks 1932).

And to avoid low content post issues...

Still perhaps it served to heighten the impact of Bonnie and Clyde (Penn 1967). Although this of course could be me fetishising/mythologising the past.
 

trooper6

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tigermilk said:
I would have to disagree with Easy Rider (1969) being the signifier for the birth of new/post-classical Hollywood. I would cite Bonnie and Clyde (1967) and The Graduate (1967) as the starting point for post-classical Hollywood. In these two films we see the literal undermining of a previous world order and a European influence in terms of cinematography (specifically the employment of the jump cut (see Breathless (Godard 1959)) in Bonnie and Clyde and the narratives critical of (perceived) dominant mores in both films.

I should acknowledge my opinions are mediated by my contempt for Easy Rider as a self indulgent, smug exploitation film created to placate the perceived 'counter culture'.
It is really tricky, isn't it? I agree with you about the importance of Bonnie & Clyde and The Graduate--and I'd add in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf, Rosemary's Baby, and In the Heat of the Night...but I think people name Easy Rider because it comes after the end of the Hayes Code in 1968. I think it is similar to when people name the Stonewall Riots in NYC in 1969 as the beginning of the modern gay rights movement, ignoring the riots that had occurred in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, et al. even before Stonewall.

On the other hand, Easy Rider, unlike all of the other films, was a non-Studio film. Most of the others were Warners or Paramount, or at the very least UA. Easy Rider was basically an indie film...so I can see the argument. Mind you, I find boomer counter culture self-aggrandizement that manifests in the form of Easy Rider worship quite tiresome...so that colors my views against Easy Rider just a bit.
 

tigermilk

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trooper6 said:
tigermilk said:
I would have to disagree with Easy Rider (1969) being the signifier for the birth of new/post-classical Hollywood. I would cite Bonnie and Clyde (1967) and The Graduate (1967) as the starting point for post-classical Hollywood. In these two films we see the literal undermining of a previous world order and a European influence in terms of cinematography (specifically the employment of the jump cut (see Breathless (Godard 1959)) in Bonnie and Clyde and the narratives critical of (perceived) dominant mores in both films.

I should acknowledge my opinions are mediated by my contempt for Easy Rider as a self indulgent, smug exploitation film created to placate the perceived 'counter culture'.
It is really tricky, isn't it? I agree with you about the importance of Bonnie & Clyde and The Graduate--and I'd add in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf, Rosemary's Baby, and In the Heat of the Night...but I think people name Easy Rider because it comes after the end of the Hayes Code in 1968. I think it is similar to when people name the Stonewall Riots in NYC in 1969 as the beginning of the modern gay rights movement, ignoring the riots that had occurred in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, et al. even before Stonewall.

On the other hand, Easy Rider, unlike all of the other films, was a non-Studio film. Most of the others were Warners or Paramount, or at the very least UA. Easy Rider was basically an indie film...so I can see the argument. Mind you, I find boomer counter culture self-aggrandizement that manifests in the form of Easy Rider worship quite tiresome...so that colors my views against Easy Rider just a bit.
It is indeed tricky, film history is many things but a tidy narrative is not one of them. Speaking personally while I love Rosemarys Baby being directed by Polanski (a European director) I wouldn't consider it hugely significant in the birth of post-classical/new Hollywood (undoubtedly significant though also in the brief "legitimisation" of horror). In The Heat of the Night (and Guess Whos Coming to Dinner) while liberal in their outlook felt to me very much part of the "traditional" Hollywood. Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf while like The Graduate a year later directed by Nichols (interesting fact he was Dreamworks first choice to direct American Beauty) has a similar mode of address it feels less a damning endightment of the time it was made (perhaps partially as it was based on an Albee play written (obviously) earlier).

You make a good point about the funding of Easy Rider (both an "independent" quality but of course by its nature not reflective of most 'PCH' films. Personally I blame Biskind's book/documentary 'Easy Riders Raging Bulls' for its recent prominence. And I agree about the tiresome worship of what for me was a narcicistic, laboured film made (in part) by a deeply unpleasent man (Edward Hoppers arrogance is only matched by his willingness to subjugate women to violence).

As for the Stonewall Riots I will have to google it! From a UK perspective (or any number of other reasons) while much has been written about Watts/Second Wave Feminism and counter cultural/anti Vietnam movements the Stonewall Riots have passed me by (although I was aware of gay rights movements in America during the late sixties.
 

jigilojoe

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'America's more flexibly structured entertainment providers like the music' *picture of Beatles* you'd best be trolling fella, love your show Bob but that shit's on the verge of gamebreaking for me.
Hate to be a whining Brit ***** about that, but if I were to say 'evolving English music like U2' I'd piss a lot of people off.
 

Saltyk

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Sep 12, 2010
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Did Bob just throw a jab at 3D movies there? I feel kind of vindicated for my hate of all things 3D. Yes, just like then, it is a gimmick.

Anyway, this has been a very interesting bit of cultural history, I can't wait till next time. I get the feeling we're going to be hearing a bit about Spiel...

Crimson_Dragoon said:
I get the feeling we're going to be hearing a bit about Spielberg and Lucas next time.
Son of a ninja!
A-hem. Yeah, I'm pretty sure we'll being hearing a bit about how movies like Star Wars, E.T. and Close Encounters of the Third Kind came into being. Or what allowed them to be made.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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Its remarkable, the track record of Hollywood. That even today in 2011, they still cling and try to enforce the same structure that they first thought up almost 70 years ago. Maybe Hollywood fears change more than the entire human race combined.
 

MrDefo

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Well this has been quite an entertaining series. Can't wait for the next one - keep educating!
 

Frostbite3789

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Gunnyboy said:
brazuca said:
The end was epic. Somehow I feel like this series will end with MovieBob saying how awesome the 1980's were for movie industry, how the 1990's only saw some good films and the 2000's struggled to compete with gaming and now Hollywood makes only safe bets. Like Fast and Furius or Avatar (new IP, but a story well known by any person above 10 years old).
Uh, environmental anti-war/colonialism films don't make money, and Fox even wanted Cameron to tone some of it down which he didn't. Avatar was not a sure bet. And the main story of the movie is not Jake falling for Neytiri or fighting with the Na'vi.
Dances with Wolves:
Budget: $19,000,000 (estimated)
Opening Weekend: $598,257 (USA) (11 November 1990) (14 Screens)
Gross: $424,200,000 (Worldwide)

Pocahontas:
Budget: $55,000,000 (estimated)
Opening Weekend: $29,500,000 (USA)
Gross: $346,079,773 (Worldwide)

FernGully:
Opening Weekend: AUD 4,462 (Australia) (29 August 1992)
Gross: $24,650,296 (USA)

Yeah, similar movies have always done so universally poorly, and with James Cameron tagged onto it, there was NO way it was a sure bet. /sarcasm
 

The Great JT

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Let's have fun and guess what's gonna be next week. I'll say, "the rise of the sci-fi genre and cultural signifigance of Star Wars and everything Steven Spielburg made between Jaws and 1989-ish."
 

Frankfurter4444

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I really liked this one. It is kind of interesting to see what people miss with the benefit of hindsight. Also, though I've always know what the "Baby Boom" was, I rather liked Bob's way of explaining it for some reason.
 

CrazyGirl17

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Sep 11, 2009
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So the movie industry tried to rise above entertainment by cashing in on gimmicks and special effects?

...Sounds to me like history is repeating itself...

Anyway, can't wait for next week, when we learn how "geeks inherit the earth..."
 

Giest4life

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Feb 13, 2010
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Your other show, Mr Bob, is fast being superseded by this one. Informative and entertaining.