Grygor said:
Trishbot said:
Speaking of which, Miyamoto worked on Kid Icarus ALONGSIDE Gunpei Yokoi, so you're mistaken there.
To quote Wikipedia,
citation needed. The only evidence for that claim comes from Wikipedia and Nintedo wiki entries with his name in the title, all of which trace back to a listing of the game's credits on Gamefaqs of all places. The wiki entries for Kid Icarus mention nothing about his involvement, a quick google search turns up nothing that isn't about Kid Icarus: Uprising, the credits listed at Mobygames don't list him, and most damningly of all, he's not even listed in the in-game credits.
He's worked on Punch-Out!!
Wii game only.
he's worked on Mario Golf
Credited for "Original Characters by" and "supervisor" - not a major role, but I'll give you that one.
and he oversaw and approved the addition of battery back-up in the NES Zelda games.
Prove it. Again, the Japanese version was an FDS game - save data was written directly to the game disk. The battery back-up was only added to the North American and European releases - as the FDS had not been (and would not be) released in those territories - which came out a year-and-a-half after the Japanese release.
Here is the List of Miyamoto's games that he has on his resume where he has served either in the roles of Director, Producer, or Designer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_games_created_by_Shigeru_Miyamoto
You're citing a wikipedia page that lists credits that are unsourced or dubiously sourced - you're going to need to do better than that. Seriously; that page credits him as a producer on Killer Instinct - unsourced, naturally - even though that game was made by Rare and his name is nowhere to be found in the game's credits.
Are THOSE enough "facts" for you to state that he's one of the greatest game designers of all time, someone the rest of us in the industry aspire to be even half as influential or successful as? If not, by all means, don't let some logic get in the way of your opinion.
I find it strangely telling that you felt the need to put "facts" in scare quotes.
Or would you rather try and be "hip" and "cool" and throw out another auteur game creator with a few cult games like Suda51 or American McGee?
That doesn't even deserve a response, beyond pointing out the implied insult directed at me, Suda51, American McGee, segments of the "games as art" crowd, small cult games, and people who like small cult games.
I mean, even Hideo Kojima and Will Wright "consider Miyamoto to be the greatest video game designer of all time."
Appealing to authority? On a purely subjective matter? You have got to be kidding me. Also interesting that you bring up Kojima, who was inspired to make games in the first place by Yuji Horii's Portopia Serial Murder Case (as well as SMB), and who's games are clearly more influenced by Portopia than by anything Miyamoto has made.
And why do I get the impression you're only citing them because they agree with you? Do you truly hold Wright and Kojima in high enough regard that you'd consider their opinion on this even if it didn't agree with yours?
Face the facts; nobody has a resume that good in gaming.
There's more to being an important game designer than the length and quality of your resume. Sometimes a single game can be more significant than an entire life's work, and sometimes a developer's writings can inspire far more budding developers and move the medium forward more than any game they make.
A man responsible for a game who's genre now bears it's name, and who is practically the father of handheld gaming?
Creator of arguably the single most influential CRPG franchise in history?
He's a creator of the highest caliber, who has put the passion of gaming before the bottom dollar. Despite his tenure and success, he refuses to accept a higher salary than the majority of his development team and he is noted for his humility in an industry dominated by greed and egos.
I never said he wasn't important or great - I said he's not a god; when he dies, he is not going to ascend into the heavens to become the patron deity of gaming. He may be part of the Pantheon, but he is not the One True God. As for humility, that's debatable.
I'm deeply sorry if you can't accept that some people might not agree that Shigeru Miyamoto is the greatest game designer to have ever lived and is head-and-shoulders above all of his peers, but frankly, that's your problem, not mine.
MY problem? I view him as the greatest game developer of all time in a sea of great talent. That's not MY problem. You're apparently the one that was so bothered by MY (and MovieBob's, and Will Wright's, and Cliff Blizinski's, and Hideo Kojima's) opinion you felt the need to post your disdain for that preference and then launch into a tirade where you ignore or discredit the very examples I just submitted ("see, he only worked on the Wii version of Punch-out!!, not Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!... so, er, I guess he's never worked on Punch-Out!! like I originally claimed!")
Fine. Let's not trust the "dubiously" sourced Wikipedia. Eurogamer, IMDB, GiantBomb, IGN, Gamespy, CVG, and other sources confirm the very same list wikipedia details quite thoroughly (including him producing Killer Instinct for the SNES/Super Famicom... NOT the original Arcade, which you may be thinking of).
And for the record, I wasn't trying to be funny. I love cult games too (from Psychonauts to To the Moon to Shadows of the Damned). Hell, I love American McGee enough that I bought the Art of Alice: Madness Returns book and got him to sign it himself! I'm not knocking their work, because I adore it... but American McGee, like Suda51, is rather niche. Games that deserved higher sales and acclaim... but their influence isn't widely felt in this industry.
But, fine, you mention Gunpei Yokoi. I never said he WASN'T one of the most influential men in gaming. He pioneered Nintendo handhelds and was instrumental in Metroid and Kid Icarus. If the man had not died tragically in a car accident, I wager he'd be revolutionizing the industry alongside Miyamoto to this day. But that's not the case. Metroid games are beloved, but I can only name Castlevania, Shadow Complex, and to a minor degree Shantae as games that are blatantly influenced by Metroid's design, and, not to discredit him, but portable games existed long before the GameBoy, or even the Game & Watch, existed, though he popularized them. He's a great creator and I miss him terribly (he kept Sakamoto in line...), but his field of work was limited, partially due to his untimely death.
And Richard Garriott? God bless him for Ultima, even if he had zero success outside of that franchise. It was a revolutionary CRPG and paved the way for MMORPGs... but, again, he popularized these games, yet they existed LONG before 1981's Ultima hit store shelves. Computer RPGs like "Rogue" by Michael Toy and Glenn Wichman beat Garriott to the punch by a fear years, as did CRPGs like Temple of Apshai and Akalabeth: World of Doom. Aren't you doing exactly what you're accusing me of doing, putting creators like Gunpei Yokoi and Richard Garriott on a pedestal and crediting them for pioneering ideas others had first? Not saying these creators didn't do great things or create great games that caught on with the public, but it's like saying Grand Theft Auto III invented sandbox gaming with vehicles when that same team did the same thing a few years earlier on Body Harvest for N64.
Let me quote what you said, "There's more to being an important game designer than the length and quality of your resume. Sometimes a single game can be more significant than an entire life's work, and sometimes a developer's writings can inspire far more budding developers and move the medium forward more than any game they make."
Okay. Sure. And Miyamoto's resume is LONG (over 120 titles) and FULL of series that are the absolute most successful in the world (Mario and Zelda in particular). BUT... he ALSO has those "single games" that "inspired far more budding developers". From the works of Will Wright (godfather of the simulation genre), to the ideas of Hideo Kojima (pioneer of cinematic game narrative), to the game ethics of Cliff Blizinski (developer of Unreal Tournament and Gears of War), to so many others as an inspiration to them either to get into video games, or how to approach making video games.
TIME magazine called him the "greatest video game creator of all time" and the "Spielberg of video games'; The Academy of Interactive Arts and Science acknowledged him as the "most important person in video games" and was the first person put into the Hall of Fame; various sites, from IGN to Gametrailers, have named him the "greatest game creator of all time"; he's been formally acknowledged by the Japanese and French governments.
Both Super Mario Bros AND The Legend of Zelda are considered two of the most successful game franchises ever (Mario is flat-out number 1), and news media, journalists, magazines, and Miyamoto's own peers have called them the most influential games ever made. You can look these up in TIME, Wired, CVG, and TLC.
Your opinion that Miyamoto is either not as influential as everyone else thinks, or is overrated, is in the minority, not just amongst gamers, but also industry professionals, developers, and journalists.
But, here, let me go casual here and see what Urban Dictionary's preferred definition is for Shigeru Miyamoto: "The greatest video game creator who ever lived and ever will live! Shigeru has the imagination and talent to create extremely popular franchises such as Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, etc. He is the master at FUN, which is what Nintendo is all about! In other words: Shigeru Miyamoto is the GOD of the video games industry."
Feel free to disagree, but you're opinion is most definitely not shared by the majority of gamers, industry insiders, or even fellow developers. You'd probably have much better success trying to convince people that Walt Disney wasn't the most influential cartoon creator of all time and that we should all bow down to Richard Williams, Don Bluth, and Winsor McCay.