The Big Picture: In Defense of "Booth Babes" (sort of)

MovieBob

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In Defense of "Booth Babes" (sort of)

MovieBob gives us several good reasons to re-think our idea of the "Booth Babe".

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SlightlyEvil

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A good summary of the problem with "Booth Babes". Can't really think of anything you left out.

I've noticed that, increasingly, I disagree with your film reviews, but The Big Picture is at minimum food for thought and usually quite insightful, as was the case today.
 

MovieBob

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Yeah from the very first paragraphs of the script to this video, all faith is lost already that it will have some coherent and or intelligent thing to say, add or even make some kind of attempt at a reasonable discussion with different views and also counterarguments presented and talked about.

Alright, see ya next week i guess...
 

Burnouts3s3

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Good questions.

Too bad I don't really have any answers. Let's hope Beyond Good and Evil has some sort of future influence on a future game designer.
 

brazuca

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Yeah that is a kind of a white knight, but I don't see the same thing in car industry. Like Pachter says: stop whining! There are too many cry babies in this induestry.

PS: that is towards people who complain about models in convention.
 

MovieBob

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I feel like this video has a lot of relevance here since it also adresses Bobs flaws in simple reasoning, something that is very well demonstrated in this weeks video on the *coughs* defense of booth babes...

First of all its kind of weak in and of itself to come to the rescue and defend something that you yourself say we should just forget are there and kind of "treat them as people" as you say, but then why would they in that case need defending or discussion on why its not ok to treat them as lesser beings because people already agree with that so...

I mean jesus christ the majority of this video can be summarized with:

Hey guys did you know that uhm, booth babes are people and dont need defending or shouldnt be attacked because it wouldnt hurt to treat them as people, did you know that water is still wet? Did you know that youre by default a sexist gaming asshole for not agreeing with this or not praising me for bringing up such a nonissue that is already a widely accepted viewpoint that its not ok to treat other people differently based on who they are?
 

Legion

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I suspect that the "They are clearly not into it" attitude is a case of people projecting onto others. "They are being paid to be there so clearly they are not into it or else they wouldn't need to be paid to be there" or something similar.

Although that said, being hired to do a job doesn't necessarily mean that you do care about it. I sincerely doubt most people working in McDonalds seriously give a damn whether or not you want fries with that, but if it pays, then people are going to be willing to do it. Some models may simply want some work experience on their CV, and to be honest there is nothing wrong with that. Perhaps they see it as a stepping stone to an area of modelling they are passionate about.

I don't have anything against them, but they don't really serve any positive purpose for the most part. They seem to make both guys and girls quite uncomfortable more than anything. The guys because they feel like they are being treated as horny teenagers who will buy something because of boobs, and girls because they can make them feel like outsiders.

I just cannot really see what would be lost by not having them at conventions when it comes down to it. Unless they are cosplaying as characters from a game they are promoting or something, but from what I have seen, that doesn't seem to be the most common situation where they are hired.
 

MovieBob

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brazuca said:
Yeah that is a kind of a white knight, but I don't see the same thing in car industry. Like Pachter says: stop whining! There are too many cry babies in this induestry.

PS: that is towards people who complain about models in convention.
Equally as dumb as those who whine about the whiners themselves, coming off as "Sexism is bad...mmkay" rather than actually saying something of substance.
Yeah, its bad that people in ALL communities regardless of its gaming or not are being treated differently based on arbitrary things by stupid people, people ALREADY agree on this point.
So then to come and say: hey guys, trolls are bad and trolling is bad, could you guys stop doing that please?

I mean who is it really going to reach, trolls will just be trolls regardless if they affiliate themselves and set up camp in gaming conventions or write stupid shit on Kotaku.
 

MovieBob

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Legion said:
I suspect that the "They are clearly not into it" attitude is a case of people projecting onto others. "They are being paid to be there so clearly they are not into it or else they wouldn't need to be paid to be there" or something similar.

Although that said, being hired to do a job doesn't necessarily mean that you do care about it. I sincerely doubt most people working in McDonalds seriously give a damn whether or not you want fries with that, but if it pays, then people are going to be willing to do it. Some models may simply want some work experience on their CV, and to be honest there is nothing wrong with that.

I don't have anything "against" them, but they don't really serve any positive purpose for the most part. They seem to make both guys and girls quite uncomfortable more than anything. The guys because they feel like they are being treated as horny teenagers who will buy something because of boobs, and girls because they can make them feel like outsiders.

I just cannot really see what would be lost by not having them at conventions when it comes down to it. Unless they are cosplaying as characters from a game they are promoting or something, but from what I have seen, that doesn't seem to be the most common situation where they are hired.
Gaming as a whole wont "suffer" for not having them there and equally it wont negatively affect anyone in a practical sense, maybe in a subjective opinion and extremely biased and principle sense yes but that still holds no value to an actual argument to say: How dare someone get paid to do a job they wanted and do something that i dont like QQQQQ.

Then again neither will society as a whole or the gaming community suffer from trolls just being trolls, regardless of who they claim they "represent". People whining at booth babes dont really have as much of an impact as Bob seems to want us to believe, in reality it makes no difference whether we have them or not or whether people like them or not.
 

Deacon Cole

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I do dislike being preached at.

But I also do not go to conventions because I hate people and despise large gatherings. That these trade shows have been opened to the public disgusts me, in fact. The only people that have any business being there are professionals.

As for models of all stripes, I have a hard time taking that seriously as a career. I do know that sitting around getting your picture taken is exhausting from my wedding photo shoot and I also really hate being the center of attention. But even then, the job is just looking good or at least appealing, which is not exactly the same thing. I can understand the suicide rate among models because, were I one, I'd kill myself because I would view myself as an empty vessel with no talent or skill beyond getting people to like me.

As for booth babes themselves, I don't think the term is going anywhere because alliteration is catchy and so long as the general public is allowed at trade shows, what appeals to the unwashed plebs will stick. But if I ever found myself in a position to have a booth at one of these shows, i would hire women and men to stand around in tight t-shirts and short shorts. Equal opportunity objectification, that's me.
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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Wow, not even 3 posts in and we already have White knight being tossed around. The gaming community already has problems with female representation and interaction as is and having these models may not make it better. While I will agree to classing up the joint and making the place more inclusive, I would argue that these models have a right to exist and that some people do treat them badly.

I don't have many solutions beside full blown reeducation on manners and how to treat women like people: replace the logo shirts with cosplays of characters (take emphasis away from the TnA and on to the actual game assets), have more security patrols around to intervene against harassment, keep alcohol well clear of the showplace and present entry to anyone drunk. These however are all solutions to outward synonyms and not internal issues as that issue is far more engrained and will require sunlight and interaction.

P.S. anyone who uses a white knight allegation loses the argument in my book as you are resorting to simple logical fallacies and prove yourself incapable of forming rational counteraugments. Also, if anyone wishes to put me on the spot for some fallacy or lack of information, do so and I will try to argue my point better.
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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Monxeroth said:

I feel like this video has a lot of relevance here since it also adresses Bobs flaws in simple reasoning, something that is very well demonstrated in this weeks video on the *coughs* defense of booth babes...

First of all its kind of weak in and of itself to come to the rescue and defend something that you yourself say we should just forget are there and kind of "treat them as people" as you say, but then why would they in that case need defending or discussion on why its not ok to treat them as lesser beings because people already agree with that so...

I mean jesus christ the majority of this video can be summarized with:

Hey guys did you know that uhm, booth babes are people and dont need defending or shouldnt be attacked because it wouldnt hurt to treat them as people, did you know that water is still wet? Did you know that youre by default a sexist gaming asshole for not agreeing with this or not praising me for bringing up such a nonissue that is already a widely accepted viewpoint that its not ok to treat other people differently based on who they are?
and yet we still have issues about it so it's worth talking about if perhaps in a more constructed debate. Honestly, a soupbox is something designed to force debate among ourselves so let's do this and consider both the models and the conventions in the conversation.
 

MovieBob

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Izanagi009 said:
Wow, not even 3 posts in and we already have White knight being tossed around. The gaming community already has problems with female representation and interaction as is and having these models may not make it better. While I will agree to classing up the joint and making the place more inclusive, I would argue that these models have a right to exist and that some people do treat them badly.

I don't have many solutions beside full blown reeducation on manners and how to treat women like people: replace the logo shirts with cosplays of characters (take emphasis away from the TnA and on to the actual game assets), have more security patrols around to intervene against harassment, keep alcohol well clear of the showplace and present entry to anyone drunk. These however are all solutions to outward synonyms and not internal issues as that issue is far more engrained and will require sunlight and interaction.

P.S. anyone who uses a white knight allegation loses the argument in my book as you are resorting to simple logical fallacies and prove yourself incapable of forming rational counteraugments. Also, if anyone wishes to put me on the spot for some fallacy or lack of information, do so and I will try to argue my point better.
1. Yeah because thats totally not what in reality is going on and gamers are just "throwing it around" like free pencils at the post office *facepalm*

2. It does have its fair share of problem not isolated to one gender against another or from one community to a specific gender, take your generilization somewhere else please. The models literally change nothing besides a very small demographic who subjectively object to them in more or less intelligent ways, nothing else.

3.We already have inclusivety and not enough personalities in the community or good examples of it are being highlighted becausse its much easier to strawman and shout sexism towards already exclusive aspects to the community instead of yknow, looking for the good things and evaluating them instead like yknow intelligent people do .__.

4.Re-education? Notsureifseriousotrolling.jpg

5.Yeah lets treat the entire community that is already being generalized by idiots such as you and treat them even worse, wow what an amazingly good incentive to start shying away from their previous sexist selves...
 

MovieBob

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Izanagi009 said:
Monxeroth said:

I feel like this video has a lot of relevance here since it also adresses Bobs flaws in simple reasoning, something that is very well demonstrated in this weeks video on the *coughs* defense of booth babes...

First of all its kind of weak in and of itself to come to the rescue and defend something that you yourself say we should just forget are there and kind of "treat them as people" as you say, but then why would they in that case need defending or discussion on why its not ok to treat them as lesser beings because people already agree with that so...

I mean jesus christ the majority of this video can be summarized with:

Hey guys did you know that uhm, booth babes are people and dont need defending or shouldnt be attacked because it wouldnt hurt to treat them as people, did you know that water is still wet? Did you know that youre by default a sexist gaming asshole for not agreeing with this or not praising me for bringing up such a nonissue that is already a widely accepted viewpoint that its not ok to treat other people differently based on who they are?
and yet we still have issues about it so it's worth talking about if perhaps in a more constructed debate. Honestly, a soupbox is something designed to force debate among ourselves so let's do this and consider both the models and the conventions in the conversation.
Then i suggest we have a more constructed video on it where subjective bias isnt thrown around like makrell and sardines to sea lions.
 

MovieBob

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Legion said:
*SNIP*
The guys because they feel like they are being treated as horny teenagers who will buy something because of boobs *SNIP*
as a guy, I confirm that.
they do make me feel uncomfortable and manipulated.

and since they do contribute to the idea of "boys club" in video games, making women uncomfortable too, I do think not having them would be for the best.
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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the antithesis said:
I do dislike being preached at.

But I also do not go to conventions because I hate people and despise large gatherings. That these trade shows have been opened to the public disgusts me, in fact. The only people that have any business being there are professionals.
I'm similar of opinion, we do need to have people act more professional in these conventions and act with dignity towards actual humans but at the same time, how open the trade shows are to public viewing is dependent on the organizers only so unless we start making a giant mess of it, it won't change quickly.
As for models of all stripes, I have a hard time taking that seriously as a career. I do know that sitting around getting your picture taken is exhausting from my wedding photo shoot and I also really hate being the center of attention. But even then, the job is just looking good or at least appealing, which is not exactly the same thing. I can understand the suicide rate among models because, were I one, I'd kill myself because I would view myself as an empty vessel with no talent or skill beyond getting people to like me.
I have a feeling that a few of the models think this way and probably only do it to get a bit extra money. Still, imagine being harassed by a significant amount of people and not being able to do anything about like retort back unless you want to possibly lose your job and you can get a idea of the difficulty.

As for booth babes themselves, I don't think the term is going anywhere because alliteration is catchy and so long as the general public is allowed at trade shows, what appeals to the unwashed plebs will stick. But if I ever found myself in a position to have a booth at one of these shows, i would hire women and men to stand around in tight t-shirts and short shorts. Equal opportunity objectification, that's me.
Just say models, people, it's slightly more accurate and shorter so just quit it with the BB. As for my booth design. I would have men and women present but not in objectifying outfits but in outfits taken from the game itself (with modifications for public decency), that way, people will be drawn to the booth all the same but not because of excessive TnA but because of "hey, this character looks interesting, I want to check the game out to see what world he/she is in and how the person plays). It's a matter of drawing people to the game not the physical anatomy
 

Lunar Templar

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*sighs*

we really are getting a LOT of 'common sense' content lately, it's getting kinda depressing.
 

Johkmil

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Monxeroth said:
*Long-winded Youtube video*

I feel like this video has a lot of relevance here since it also adresses Bobs flaws in simple reasoning, something that is very well demonstrated in this weeks video on the *coughs* defense of booth babes...
The video lost the rest of its already shaky credibility on 7:05 with "everyone's favourite lesbian lumberjack." (The majority was lost underway, including on some creative characterizations of MovieBob, although he himself is not always the most delicate in avoiding name calling.)

Izzyisme said:
Please just ignore Monxeroth. He goes to every single thread about gender and tries to stat fights, It's not worth it. Obvious troll is obvious.
Damn, I did not see that post before after posting. I might be wasting my time here.
 

MovieBob

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jaded zombie said:
Legion said:
*SNIP*
The guys because they feel like they are being treated as horny teenagers who will buy something because of boobs *SNIP*
as a guy, I confirm that.
they do make me feel uncomfortable and manipulated.

and since they do contribute to the idea of "boys club" in video games, making women uncomfortable too, I do think not having them would be for the best.
Well the only real way to win is not to play, if you dont want to buy a certain product because of its choice of marketing and promotion, you are always free to do so :D

Of course then youll have to have equal respect for those who DO make the choice based on that to buy in to the product and its promotion.
 

MovieBob

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Johkmil said:
Monxeroth said:
*Long-winded Youtube video*

I feel like this video has a lot of relevance here since it also adresses Bobs flaws in simple reasoning, something that is very well demonstrated in this weeks video on the *coughs* defense of booth babes...
The video lost the rest of its already shaky credibility on 7:05 with "everyone's favourite lesbian lumberjack." (The majority was lost underway, including on some creative characterizations of MovieBob, although he himself is not always the most delicate in avoiding name calling.)
Wellthatslikeyouropinionman.jpg

I guess its too bad most of the "creative characterizations of moviebob" actually hold water, actually has substance and more than often hit spot on, if they didnt your argument mightve been just as reasonable but ah well, try again, maybe next time, good luck on that.

Of course he isnt, to err is human you know and never once did i imply i could ever justify namecalling even in the embed video so...not sure what the hissy fit is all about :L