The Big Picture: Je Suis Charlie

Burnouts3s3

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An interesting stance.

I, myself, have been wondering about the whole 'getting back at them' sentiment with 'Draw Mohammad Day' response.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/cartoonist-promises-to-draw-mohamed-every-day-for-the-rest-of-the-year-in-protest-of-charlie-hebdo-attack-9964703.html
 

Evonisia

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Jun 24, 2013
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Super-serious? Well, I suppose, but I find this attempt at being serious much less condescending than the censorship episodes or the Jack Thompson episode, so this is well received by me.
 

madigan

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Thanks for this one, MovieBob! I couldn't agree with you more on this issue.

The only "simple" take-away from the Charlie Hebdo attack is that murder and terrorism is always wrong and horrible, and that the right to free speech is a concept more nuanced than most people seem to realize.
 

JoJo

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Yeah, you've hit the nail on the head when it comes to power, it's an easy enough to say truisms like "punch up, not down," but it's very difficult to pin down exactly who is powerful and who isn't in our messy world and that is multiplied tenfold when you cross international borders into different cultures.

I'm not a reader of Charlie Hebdo, I can read at best only a little French so I can't be completely certain but from the screenshots of the magazine I've seen, it doesn't really cross the line into racism and is actually very critical of far-right parties like the FN. It hits on religion a lot but even then the Prophet Muhammad got off fairly lightly when for example in the past they've done a magazine cover of the Holy Trinity of Christianity having a threesome :p
 

Lieju

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Well, that was far better episode than I feared.

I'm not French, but I do know some things of French culture (and was vaguely familiar with the work of some of the cartoonists killed) and know French people (including muslims, feminists, LGBT+ people etc) and some of them were offended by the Charlie Hebdo drawings, some weren't, some thought they were punching down, some disagreed with that.

But what all of them are saying is that people who have no context should stay away from the discussion.
Especially on the Internet where American views and English-speakers tend to dominate the discussion.
 

faeshadow

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Evonisia said:
Super-serious? Well, I suppose, but I find this attempt at being serious much less condescending than the censorship episodes or the Jack Thompson episode, so this is well received by me.
I agree! I just kept watching this video thinking "I'm actually agreeing with Bob for once, wow." Not sure I agree with him implying that Charlie Hebdo is racist, but I'll let that slide since the rest of it was right on the nose.
 

bobdole1979

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I'm not a fan of people calling him "The Prophet Muhammad" Just call him Muhammad if you aren't Muslim. Otherwise its like always referring to Jesus as "Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ"

Since this happened all the news channels keep calling him "the Prophet Muhammad"

Great video btw
 

deathbydeath

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Love the intro, but I feel like we're going to disagree.

EDIT: Nevermind, this video is pretty legit. I apologize for assuming your SJW tendencies would muck this up, as this video is one of the better takes on issue that's not only thorny, but where many people pretend like those thorns don't exist.
 

JMac85

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I'm really sick of that "punching up/down" bullshit when it comes to saying what jokes you're allowed to make. If you have a point to make, it shouldn't matter how "privileged" you are compared to the person or entity you're ripping on.
 

Zato-1

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Condemning South Park for "punching down" instead of "punching up" completely misses the point about the show. South Park is not about social justice and speaking truth to power, it's about confronting ugly truths and being irreverent to a fault, which has its own value.

Also, this:
JMac85 said:
I'm really sick of that "punching up/down" bullshit when it comes to saying what jokes you're allowed to make. If you have a point to make, it shouldn't matter how "privileged" you are compared to the person or entity you're ripping on.
 

JediMB

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Yeah, I pretty much share Bob's views on this one.

The killings were wrong, as murder tends to be. Full stop. No caveats.

With that said, I'm not Charlie and I have no intention to defend the publication. I'll only argue for the right of its employees to live.
 

Scarim Coral

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Burnouts3s3 said:
An interesting stance.

I, myself, have been wondering about the whole 'getting back at them' sentiment with 'Draw Mohammad Day' response.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/cartoonist-promises-to-draw-mohamed-every-day-for-the-rest-of-the-year-in-protest-of-charlie-hebdo-attack-9964703.html
Not only that but that magazine company that got attacked will publish Prophet Muhammad on its cover tomorrow-http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30790409

Yeah I can see this being punch up and punch down. Punch up as they are defining the terrorist but punch down by offending the Muslim who do not support terrorism.
 

endtherapture

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I think that most people are getting annoyed at those criticising Charlie Hebdo is because they're making arguments that basically amount to victim blaming. Given that the majority of people making these arguments are those from Tumblr and social justice crowds, them crying out against victim blaming for rape victims, but saying "Oh the cartoonists didn't deserve to get shot, but should not have made these dodgy cartoons" is hypocrisy of the highest order.
 

HemalJB

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Yeah, I see that happen a lot. I mean, there are a lot of jokes and insults directed towards Feminists but feel as though they are just attacking women. Then there are jokes against Radical Christians which feel like they're attacking Christianity as a whole. It's hard to enjoy humor in these cases.
 

Xman490

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May 29, 2010
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When it comes to cartoons like South Park, mockery is a form of satire of real hatred. The characters in it do such ridiculous things that it's hard to take them seriously. When a character becomes part dolphin or characters decide to establish "cis" and "trans" bathrooms, their ridiculousness is clear. They are obviously exaggerations and representations of what bigots might believe certain groups' agendas are.
 

Recaxion

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excellent episode bob, a lot to digest maybe have to watch it a few times so I can properly consider your points.
 

P-89 Scorpion

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The MAMA picture showing 15 attacks against Muslims in France were 7 are graffiti? so graffiti is an attack now?

15 'attacks' resulting in 1 assault that of a 17 year old by a gang of teenagers that happen all the time anyway against everyone who's a teenager.
 

JMac85

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endtherapture said:
I think that most people are getting annoyed at those criticising Charlie Hebdo is because they're making arguments that basically amount to victim blaming. Given that the majority of people making these arguments are those from Tumblr and social justice crowds, them crying out against victim blaming for rape victims, but saying "Oh the cartoonists didn't deserve to get shot, but should not have made these dodgy cartoons" is hypocrisy of the highest order.
That, and the hypocrisy of crying "we should respect their culture" when they just got through a diatribe about "the patriarchy" and "rape culture" here in the West.