The Big Picture: Leave Michael Bay Alone

[Netrigan]

So, Michael Bay's fans are essentially the same people who go to Tyler Perry movies?

The people who watch Michael Bay movies also enjoy Community, Arrested Development, Game of Thrones, CSI, NCIS, The Goonies, Citizen Kane, Troll 2, love KISS both ironically and unironically, hate KISS, think Goldeneye is the greatest video game ever, think Call of Duty is the greatest game ever, think Halo is the greatest game ever, love Citizen Kane, never saw Citizen Kane, thought Sucker Punch was brilliant, thought Sucker Punch was garbage, and on and on.

They just like the movie. That's all. It signifies nothing more than the ability to enjoy a big dumb action movie that is made by Michael Bay. They're brilliant, they're stupid, they're every point in between.

We do this every time something is a success that we don't personally enjoy; we try to discredit the people who enjoy it as if they're some mass of folks who signify everything that is wrong with the world , forgetting that the numbers are so huge that they permeate every level of society. They're the same kind of people who made Star Wars and Raiders of the Lost Ark classic films. They're same people who (statistically speaking) embraced Dark Knight and rejected Green Lantern. They're just people who wanted to see giant robots punch each other while stuff 'sploded.

I hate American Idol. I would love to pretend that the people who watch the show are music hating mouth-breathers, but they're not. They just happen to like that sort of thing. And some people really enjoy John Carter and make up elaborate excuses why that is that don't boil down to "a bunch of people just didn't think it looked good."

 

[MCerberus]

It's actually the circle of crap at this point
People are raised on stupid.
So they don't like smart.
So they keep seeing stupid.
Then they raise their kids on what they like, stupid.

Who would have thought that nutrition science and cinema would be fighting the same monster?

 

[Netrigan]

They're just people who wanted to see giant robots punch each other while stuff 'sploded.

So then I wonder why a good movie like Pacific Rim has a rough time and a movie that is objectively worse in every conceivable level like transformers is a huge success?

A movie can be shallow or singular in its intent and not be terrible. But people go out of their way to support garbage like CoD or Transformers. They aren't the worst properties in their respected mediums, but their success far outweighs their quality. Its that disconnect that upsets people.

Because they're not objectively worse in every conceivable way.

There's all sorts of things which lead to a successful marketing campaign. I enjoyed the hell out of Pacific Rim, but I found the trailers (and a decent amount of the movie) kind of murky looking. Had it not been from the director of Hellboy, there's a very good chance I would have passed. When Transformers 2 came out, I was a dedicated Bay-Hater, having disliked The Rock and only enjoying the Earthbound part of Armageddon... but, god help me, I wanted to watch that movie after the trailer. And I might burn in hell for saying this, but I was more entertained by Shia's antics than I was the dull performance of Charlie Hunnam, whose Sons of Anarchy awesomeness seemed to have abandoned him for Pacific Rim. Bay's movies are horribly written, but I find myself entertained by them nonetheless.

As for CoD, the first Modern Warfare game had one hell of a single player campaign and a lot of folks really enjoyed the multiplayer (I never tried it so I can't possibly comment) and even if they've never reached that high water mark since then, it's only very recently that game critics have started not giving the game 10/10s... which corresponds to them losing some of their fanbase to the similarly themed Battlefield 4. CoD is where it is because it's been good... and if it stops being good, it will fall sooner or later. Halo, who once dominated the scene, seems to be on the way down as well.

 

[dtgenshiken7]

Personally I dislike him because he's an awful director, and for his grand magnum f*ck up that was Pearl Harbour. He's done too much damage to not be attacked for every film he does, and while it's true that the audience cops a lot of the blame for going to his movies, I don't, and I never will again. It's not because of the million sins you threw into this argument, it's mostly because his movies are so inexplicably dumb, shoddy and held together with half-assed special effects and too many explosions.

So yeah, you make a good point. But I'm going to go ahead and keep bashing Michael Bays movies every time they come out, and I'm going to keep blaming him, because he is not THE problem, but he is A problem.

 

[Netrigan]

Bay's movies are horribly written, but I find myself entertained by them nonetheless.

I, and from what I can gather most people that dislike them, find the movies dreadfully boring. What about them do you find entertaining? Specifically what aspects do you enjoy and unironically think are good.
Trying to see it objectively as possible, everything in this series has been wrong. The acting, writing, plot, special effects, editing, casting. With maybe the exception of Marky Mark, I've yet to see the fourth film.

As for your point about trailers, I think that I can mostly agree. Hell, every time I see a GIANT ROBOT DINOSAUR in the latest trailer I want to see that movie. But then I remember the other three movies and resolve to not be fooled. As far as I'm aware Grimlock has less than 5 minutes screen time and isn't even refereed to by name. Not surprising.
Often times marketing outright lies to the audience about the product. And you cant blame the general public for that.

It just seems like Bay has a decent handle on people's ADD. Generally speaking whenever I find myself getting a bit bored in one of his movies, he throws some random bit of entertainment my way that keeps me going.

Personally I find the big finale in The Avengers to be pretty boring, except when the Hulk pops up or Robert Downey throws down a one-liner. The Battle of Chicago goes on for much longer, but Bay kept my interest thanks to his more frequent use of humor. Some folks love The Avengers more because of all the Hero Moments, but in the face of an uninteresting CGI horde, humor is your best friend.

I was actually a bit bored with Transformers 4, which is done to Marky Mark being far less entertaining to watch than the idiots running around in the first three movies. The Transformers themselves are more fun to watch, but the expense of CG means they can't get nearly enough screen time to make the slog of a finale work without the humans being fun to watch.

 

[Netrigan]

And even though I enjoy these movies, I do find it extremely hard to articulate why I like them. I know I shouldn't, but he keeps hitting pleasure centers in my brain.

It's like when you try that weird flavor of potato chips and even though you know it tastes awful, you just can't stop eating them

 

[Netrigan]

Only problem I have with this is that you call people going to see stupid robot movies a problem. I'm really not sure in what context it's supposed to be one.

I think that does illustrate how easily this kind of thing can be turned around onto things you love.

Alan Moore (comic legend, wizard, mall Santa, Rasputin impersonator) is among a fairly sizable group of people who think our enjoyment of super-hero movies is infantile. After The Avengers made its billions, there were any number of articles from film critics who said much the same thing, lamenting how such low-brow entertainment has high-jacked the medium and we are doomed to a succession of adolescent super-hero fantasies because of it.

It's just a quick step away from coming up with some "theory" about how you're all stunted men-children who immerse yourself in juvenile entertainment to escape the reality of growing up... and that means you are what's wrong with the world today.

 

[Coruptin]

Doubt I will go see the new Transformers in theaters, just Redbox it later when it comes out. Seems to be the best way to enjoy his films in my opinion.

the transformers movies are dumb idiot cartoon thrill rides, unless you have an amazing home theater system i'd say imax is the best way to enjoy them

and before anyone lambastes me for calling something a dumb idiot cartoon,
that is not a criticism for me. it's okay for things to be dumb idiot cartoons. yes, i think your favorite anime is a dumb idiot cartoon too. yes, i think my favorite cartoons are dumb idiot cartoons. please stop being so insecure about your hobbies and interests.

 

[briankoontz]

The world is dying, so there's no point to high culture anymore - the point throughout history was that high culture was improving society - that was it's supposed, or potential, value. That value is gone, it's worse than gone since the failure of high culture itself is part of the REASON the world is dying. Mr. Chipman's statement that Bay films are slop lapped up by pigs is ridiculous.

Shakespeare's 450th birthday was recently celebrated. Almost noone in the world noticed, despite Shakespeare remaining relatively popular today. The reason is obvious - Shakespeare doesn't have long left to live.

The importance of culture is tied directly to human life on the planet. Even if we don't place part of the blame for the dying earth on high culture itself and turn on that high culture, which Mr. Chipman's "pigs" have done, we still need to recognize the reality that culture relies upon humans to RECEIVE it. It relies upon relatively wealthy humans to receive it, as the fairly uncultured near-starving people in the world can tell you. As the world dies and becomes impoverished only the "escape the earth" dragons will lay any claim to culture, and those monsters are not worthy of emulation.

It's not Bob Chipman who's smarter than regular people, it's regular people who are smarter than Bob Chipman. They are smart enough to realize that Michael Bay is entertaining, and in a dying world that's all that can be achieved.

The only way to make Bob Chipman's dream of the triumph of high culture come true is to stop the world from dying. Once that happens Shakespeare can live for centuries more, and new Shakespeares can come along. At that point REGULAR PEOPLE will appreciate high culture, as long as that culture serves their interests. For the most part it has not in the past, with a few exceptions.

The logic of death differs drastically from the logic of life. The logic of life is self-improvement and improvement of the world. The logic of death is fantasy, spectacle, and saving itself from death.

The people Bob Chipman mocks understand reality and are helpless to do anything about it. Bob Chipman doesn't understand reality and therefore *can't* do anything about it.

 

[Urameshi13]

Haven't you conjectured before that Bay thinks humanity kind of sucks as a whole? What if all of his movies is him fulfilling his own opinion?

 

[Powerman88]

Wow nice job MB. What an Ayn Rand-ian thought! People are afraid of great because it is scary and challenging. People only want good (or bad) because it is safe and familiar.

 

[Metalrocks]

bay is certainly not the best director out there but compared to uwe boll, i give bay an oscar any time of the year.

i sure enjoyed the rock, bad boys 1 and 2, so as armageddon. havent seen pain&gain but i sure will get the dvd eventually. transformers are just mindless but entertaining movies. isnt that what we are mainly going to the movies for? to be entertained? having stuff getting blown up can be amusing. i mean, isnt shoot 'em up also an over the top action flick with not really a great story? and yet, it was entertaining in its own way.

here in hong kong the cinemas are full for the new transformers. also maybe because half of the movie does play in hong kong but even when i watched part 3, the cinemas were full. but they also advertise about it like mad. toys, even on product like buying a tv or so.
hell, even yesterday when i was in a shopping mall, they had a huge bumble bee statue.

 

[Gerardo Vazquez]

I think the main reason I specifically hate Micheal Bay(and by extension Bryan Singer, and Mark Webb to a lesser degree) is because they aren't just making ANY bad movie, they're making bad movies out of properties I like, and the continued success of those bad movies prevents the creation of better movies from those same franchises. If Micheal Bay just walked away from Transformers all of my animosity towards him would pretty much vanish.

 

[Nurb]

If you want the Michael Bay "aesthetic", watch the video while holding down the F11 key

 

[Baresark]

Holy shit... that is one of the most honest and mature episodes I have seen. Michael Bay is not the antithesis of anything, he isn't the anti-art or the destroy of childhood things. He is just a guy who makes movies with lots of explosions and usually great special effects. He isn't a master film maker, but he should stop being in the cross hairs of every art critic wannabe simply because you can find things you don't like about his movies. That is most movies, for the record. But when Bay does it, it's worse somehow? Gimme a break.

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

Everything Bob has said in this video is what I've been talking about for the past YEAR - it's largely the audience (i.e. consumers) which drive the market, decide what's popular, keep trends afloat, etc. Devs and directors can only create an idea and throw it out there - if consumers don't buy the product (or not in large enough numbers), there's a good chance it will be abandoned. However if consumers DO buy that product in the millions, then all attempts will be made by the dev/director to expand on that idea and beat all possible profit out of it. Other devs/directors will also observe the success of that idea and try to tap-into it.

Thus trends and tropes are born.

The exact same thing applies to the whole "sexism issue" in games and other media - audience is largely responsible for driving the trends and tropes you see today. They have all been popularized and KEPT that way by the audience. Devs only initially threw out the idea "hey, want sexy skimpy ladies in your game?" and "hey, want to play as a male protagonist?" and the answer was a big fat "YES PLEASE" by the consumers (in terms of answering with their wallets), and thus the snowball grew into an avalanche.

So instead of SJW's waiting for the opportunity to spit fire at devs and content creators, turn around and spit fire at the people who buy these things instead.

Go fuck yourself Bob, the audience is not the problem.

The audience decided to pay to watch those movies in masses and literally FUNDED (by a factor of multiples actually) all the sequels + marketing.

We did not decide to make these movies, we did not decide to desecrate childhood icons, Bay did.

We don't make movies at all. We decide whether to watch them or not.

The only thing we are responsible for is not knowing how to torrent this shit before we actually decide to spent money on it. But as more old people who don't know computers die off this changes.

FYI, high-quality DVD's are not released on the same day as the cinema release, and therefore the only torrents you'll find are CAM rips - what's the point of watching a Transformers movie on potato-cam with non-existent audio quality?
People will pay to watch the proper version in cinemas and IMAX.

Not to mention most of the Transformers audience are people aged 8-30, so out of the general audience base these people would be more likely to be aware of torrenting than audiences of other movies.

Your post doesn't make any sense : /

 

[Moeez]

People go to loud, stupid movies for the same reason people stick M-80's in water bottles: the simple act of exploding things stimulates the pleasure center like a courtesan made of opium.

We, the general public, go to movies like these to relax. We have lives, and families, and stupid, stupid jobs where we deal with shitheel customers on a regular basis. A nice, uncomplicated film about robots punching each other in the face is appealing. Sure you get films that have crossover appeal, ones that houghty-toughty film buffs and average Joe both enjoy like Inception or The Dark Knight Saga.

I think Bay realizes what he is and exploits that t its' fullest potential. He knows that he makes stupid, but fun to watch movies, and he knows that he's the studio's money making machine. So he makes what he thinks would be cool to watch, and gets payed a mint for it.

I don't buy that these Transformers movies are "uncomplicated". The plots are needlessly convoluted, just watch Bob's review of Age Of Extinction. They're ridiculously long. I don't see how these movies are conducive to the general public.

What's uncomplicated action movies that I happen to like?

The Raid

Dredd

And yet Age of Extinction has an A- Cinemascore. I think we need to try to understand why that is. Apparently, the marketing push was incredible with $175 million only used for corporate brand partners like GM Chevrolet and Oreo Cookies, Big Red soda, Valero gas stations and Western Star trucks: http://nikkifinke.com/transformers-age-extinction-starts-weekend-worldwide/

 

[Strazdas]

I dont hate michael Bay. i hate what he does. And i think he is a genius to sell so well his awful products. I know i sure couldnt do that.

See, when you take one item at a time that he does, yes you can find other directors do these mistakes. However none of them manage to mix these together in such a manner as to still get slipped behind the summer blocbuster title. hes a genius of making bad movies popular. and for that, i kind of respect him.

As far as "we are the problem", i think this was the smartest thing i hear bob ever say.

FYI, high-quality DVD's are not released on the same day as the cinema release, and therefore the only torrents you'll find are CAM rips - what's the point of watching a Transformers movie on potato-cam with non-existent audio quality?
People will pay to watch the proper version in cinemas and IMAX.

id say a large reason of WHY people pirate these movies is because we cant buy good quality ones. and DVD is hardly good quality, we have cam rips way above DVD quality. this is because DVD uses antequated mpeg2 codec. which was good when it was designed, is horrible now. give me blue ray on day 1 and ill buy A LOT of them. dont and ill forget about the movie in those 6 months it takes you to release it. and no, i dont want to watch a movie when i have to drive there for an hour and then listen to teens giggle behind me throughout, so i wont go to the cinema. not to mention extortionate prices.