You seem to think I agree with the FTC filing people.Baby Tea said:Fans are equal creators in the same way that readers of 'choose your own adventure' books are equal authors.Frank_Sinatra_ said:Remember: BioWare has stated that their fans are equal creators in the story along with their actual writing staff.
Read: They aren't.
"But they SAID we are!"
Yeah! And the cover of my 'Choose your own Adventure' book says I pick where the character goes!
But even IF every choice I make in the book ends up at the same, unsatisfying conclusion on the final page, the bottom line is: That's how it was written. I might not like it, and I might even feel cheated, but that's the creator's choice. I can not buy from them again, I can critique it like crazy, I can even ***** about it on the internet, but to DEMAND that a creator, that an artist CHANGE THEIR WORK because I am unsatisfied is the height of self-entitled bullshit.
No, it's not false advertising.
No, they don't owe you a thing.
Geez, I'd be happy with another bullshit 'boycott' rather than this garbage.
People need to grow up. Seriously.
BlueInkAlchemist said:Writers can't write in a vacuum. They need feedback. They need test readers, editors, and so on. And it's highly likely that the writer's work will become altered as a result of the feedback they receive from these sources. Gaming, more than any other form of art, relies on the participation and feedback of its audience. From the moment we put our fingers on buttons, sticks, or mice at the start of a game, we have a measure of control over our experience. A well-designed game lets the player feel like they are truly a part of the world they're being shown, that their choices will help shape the events to come. In a movie or a book, there's no interaction between the observer and the observed. We experience the narrative the authors want us to experience regardless of whatever decisions we might have made differently. Video games, on the other hand, invite us to make our choices and experience the consequences for better or for worse.
Since players are a part of the building process for the narrative, it could be argued that they have just as much ownership of the story as the developers do. That isn't to say they should get a cut of the game's profits, as not everyone can render the iron sights of a gun or the glowing eyes of a dimensional horror-beast as well as a professional, who has to pay for things like training and food. A game done right, however, makes the player feel like a part of its world, and with that comes a certain feeling of entitlement.
That word's been bandied about quite a bit lately, and to be honest I don't think gamer entitlement is entirely a bad thing. The problem arises when gamers act like theirs is the only opinion that matters. Gaming is, at its best, a collaborative storytelling experience. Bad games shoulder players out of their narratives with non-interactive cutscenes or features that ruin immersion. Bad gamers scream their heads off whenever things don't go exactly the way they expect in a given story. "This sucks and so do you" is not as helpful as "I think this sucks and here's why."
As gaming continues to evolve and the line between developer and player begins to blur, it becomes more and more apparent that the old ways of judging those who create the stories we enjoy no longer apply to games. We are just as responsible for the stories being told through games as the developers are, and while games empower and encourage us to make decisions to alter the outcome, we must realize that our power in that regard is shared with the developers, and is not exclusively our own. By the same token, the onus of integrity does not solely fall on the developers. We, as participants in the story, must also hold ourselves to a standard, in providing constructive criticism, frank examination, and willingness to adapt or compromise when it comes to the narratives we come to love. Only by doing this can we blur that line between gamers and developers. Only by showing this desire to address these stories as living things in which we have a say and for the benefit of which we will work with their original creators will gamers stop coming across as spoiled brats and start to be considered a vital part of the game creation process.
Sorry I don't understand. I don't know what MML3 is or how it relates to thisRaikuFA said:OK? And? I was promised a demo of MML3 and the sales of said demo would determine if it was gonna be cancelled or not. It got canceled before the demo was released and I can't make a BBB complaint over it cause it will be thrown out, just like your ME3 complaints.370999 said:That is an extreme fringe and accompanies anything which is emotional. Bob is not a man to chide others for childish outbursts, remember the whole comparison between the Transformers movies and his dogs skeleton being dug out, covered in shit and views of it sold? I do.RaikuFA said:Considering people are demanding donations back, making death threats and making BBB complaints over it, hes a bit justified. Hes just saying those above three make all fans of something look bad.370999 said:So once again Bob doesn't understand the difference between games and movies. And misrepresents the retake ME movement. Standard stuff from him them.
Also he mentions the FTC without paying any attention to why that happened. That is not about the ending being bad, that is about Bioware outright lying in interviews. They said it wouldn't be an ABC affair and it was.
Ahh, see, I've not finished the first game, so I have no idea what is going on with the third in terms of ending or changes based on decisions. I also never, ever pay attention to interviews or anything like that, so I have no leg there. It just seems that, to me, people were expecting a butterfly effect-type ending in the sense that not doing a side-mission - let's say, for my sake, mining all of the gas nodes in the first game - would have a huge impact on the game.370999 said:DA:O and New Vegas. Now of course everyone accepts that it is always going be limited to a certain amount of choices, that's inevitable. However there was the expectations, which Bioware egged on, that we would of avoided the ending deciding everything, that it would come from the choices made in the game that culminate in the ending.Gxas said:Would you be able to give an example of how something that has been coded (read: prewritten) can not be an ABC affair?370999 said:That is an extreme fringe and accompanies anything which is emotional. Bob is not a man to chide others for childish outbursts, remember the whole comparison between the Transformers movies and his dogs skeleton being dug out, covered in shit and views of it sold? I do.RaikuFA said:Considering people are demanding donations back, making death threats and making BBB complaints over it, hes a bit justified. Hes just saying those above three make all fans of something look bad.370999 said:So once again Bob doesn't understand the difference between games and movies. And misrepresents the retake ME movement. Standard stuff from him them.
Also he mentions the FTC without paying any attention to why that happened. That is not about the ending being bad, that is about Bioware outright lying in interviews. They said it wouldn't be an ABC affair and it was.
MovieBob has it right, you are wrong!Frank_Sinatra_ said:Bad move Bob, very, very, very, very bad move.
It's apparent that you really haven't researched into the whole Mass Effect 3 debacle, so be prepared to hear that the Mass Effect series is a special case, BioWare didn't deliver on ANY of their promises, and they pretty much slapped their own IP in the face in the last 5 minutes of their game.
Remember: BioWare has stated that their fans are equal creators in the story along with their actual writing staff.
So... What everyone else on both sides has been doing since this whole ordeal began?MatsVS said:Once again Bob demonstrates an extreme unwillingness to even consider a different viewpoint than his own, much less engage with the actual arguments, as well as an abject lack of ability to do even cursory research on the subject at hand, and not to mention a tendency towards derogatory language and the overall dismissive attitude of his ill-conceived points. This attempt to create a false parallel between games and other kinds of media in the name of artistic integrity is, in a word, laughable.