The Big Picture: Once Upon a Time in The Future
- Thread starter MovieBob
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Ugh. I'd agree with enlightenment values over liberal values any day. I'd place knowledge as a much higher priority than world peace or solving world hunger.
Why?
Because people are going to die. No matter what. Does it really matter all that much? Is the human struggle really just a struggle to prolong our own lives and fill them with pleasurable experiences? I spit on this hedonism that underlies liberal values.
If there is any nobility in human existence it is in our struggle to grow and learn more about the world. If we lose that just so everyone can have their +/-70 years of wretched contentment then I say humanity no longer deserves to exist.
That being said, who cares about space travel? WE CAN'T DO IT PROPERLY RIGHT NOW ANYWAY! WE DON'T HAVE ANTI-GRAVITY OR FASTER THAN LIGHT TRAVEL. HELL WE'RE STILL USING FOSSIL FUELS.
I'm more excited about CERN, genetics, neuroscience, computers and robotics than I am about space travel. It's those things we should be worried about. When I think of all the romantic stuff about the human quest for knowledge I think of a microscope, not a space shuttle.
Why?
Because people are going to die. No matter what. Does it really matter all that much? Is the human struggle really just a struggle to prolong our own lives and fill them with pleasurable experiences? I spit on this hedonism that underlies liberal values.
If there is any nobility in human existence it is in our struggle to grow and learn more about the world. If we lose that just so everyone can have their +/-70 years of wretched contentment then I say humanity no longer deserves to exist.
That being said, who cares about space travel? WE CAN'T DO IT PROPERLY RIGHT NOW ANYWAY! WE DON'T HAVE ANTI-GRAVITY OR FASTER THAN LIGHT TRAVEL. HELL WE'RE STILL USING FOSSIL FUELS.
I'm more excited about CERN, genetics, neuroscience, computers and robotics than I am about space travel. It's those things we should be worried about. When I think of all the romantic stuff about the human quest for knowledge I think of a microscope, not a space shuttle.
Sir I absolutely agree with everything you are saying. Progress is needed more than whining about the corporate money race.
Bob, if you're reading this, which you probably aren't, you aren't alone. Hearing about this saddened the crap out of me.
What really happened is that we lost the attitude of, "Unsafe? Screw it, just do it before the Russians!"
Space travel has never been safe, and that first trip to the moon took some serious balls.
Today there doesn't seem to be a drive to overlook those safety concerns.
And how can a race that has made their living exploring and expanding and discovering new frontiers just throw in the towel because of fiscal concerns and budget cuts? I don't get it.
What really happened is that we lost the attitude of, "Unsafe? Screw it, just do it before the Russians!"
Space travel has never been safe, and that first trip to the moon took some serious balls.
Today there doesn't seem to be a drive to overlook those safety concerns.
And how can a race that has made their living exploring and expanding and discovering new frontiers just throw in the towel because of fiscal concerns and budget cuts? I don't get it.
People have probably already mentioned this but Bob does a nice job of presenting a narrow viewpoint of one side of an issue.
Spaceflight interested me for years, and I've done a pretty good job of following what's been happening.
The real issue is manned space flight vs. unmanned space flight.
Manned spaceflight requires a lot of systems to support something that really shouldn't be in outer space and on other planetary bodies: humans.
As such, any manned spaceflight is extremely costly when compared to unmanned spaceflight. The goals shift from making sure "our guys" come back in one piece and exploration to simply: Exploration.
That means we have to make sure what we do w/ manned spaceflight counts. One of the reason the President had axed the constellation program was it was massively over-budget only to return us to a place we'd already been.
Better to send humans to an asteriod, even farther away than the moon but even more complex in terms of docking/landing a spaceship with it. Eventually the next step would be to go to Mars.
Notice how Bob neglects to mention all of the above...
Spaceflight interested me for years, and I've done a pretty good job of following what's been happening.
The real issue is manned space flight vs. unmanned space flight.
Manned spaceflight requires a lot of systems to support something that really shouldn't be in outer space and on other planetary bodies: humans.
As such, any manned spaceflight is extremely costly when compared to unmanned spaceflight. The goals shift from making sure "our guys" come back in one piece and exploration to simply: Exploration.
That means we have to make sure what we do w/ manned spaceflight counts. One of the reason the President had axed the constellation program was it was massively over-budget only to return us to a place we'd already been.
Better to send humans to an asteriod, even farther away than the moon but even more complex in terms of docking/landing a spaceship with it. Eventually the next step would be to go to Mars.
Notice how Bob neglects to mention all of the above...
No small part of it is that the government would rather spend money supporting every Third World hole that can offload its excess people onto us, thus ensuring themselves a steady voting base.
You don't get votes with space.
Personally, I welcome the end of the government stranglehold on space.
The guys that grew up at the feet of the nerd gods like Clarke, Asimov, and Roddenberry? They're running the companies that are reaching for space. Our government is run by accountants and vote-whores, the private sector is where all the dreamers live.
Sure, Scaled Composites might have to take some douchetard's $10 million for a lark in space, but that money's going to the gods' work.
Time to consign NASA to the dustbin.
You don't get votes with space.
Personally, I welcome the end of the government stranglehold on space.
The guys that grew up at the feet of the nerd gods like Clarke, Asimov, and Roddenberry? They're running the companies that are reaching for space. Our government is run by accountants and vote-whores, the private sector is where all the dreamers live.
Sure, Scaled Composites might have to take some douchetard's $10 million for a lark in space, but that money's going to the gods' work.
Time to consign NASA to the dustbin.
I feel ya bob but the trouble is the US government is too mismanaged and corrupted to make much of anything affordable, but chin up when the corporations take over after the fall of most governments
PS:I still would like to see Obmoba's birth certificate, the trouble of not showing it is more frighting than showing it, IMO. But its on the low end scale for me I would like to kill off the US government and start fresh with something that bans lobbying and lowers corporation via keeping people out after 1 term, One term(one year at work) to each seat(House,senate,adviser,contractor,ect,ect). We need less old fools seeking to become aristocrats and more well hearted fools that want to help the public.
PS:I still would like to see Obmoba's birth certificate, the trouble of not showing it is more frighting than showing it, IMO. But its on the low end scale for me I would like to kill off the US government and start fresh with something that bans lobbying and lowers corporation via keeping people out after 1 term, One term(one year at work) to each seat(House,senate,adviser,contractor,ect,ect). We need less old fools seeking to become aristocrats and more well hearted fools that want to help the public.
Trust me when I say you're far from the only one pissed off that we as a race haven't really gone anywhere since the Apollo days. There have been plans on the books to set up Mars missions and even colonies since the 70's, yet we're still sitting on our collective thumbs. I'll be happy if the Canadian and European space agencies step in to fill the void, and start getting shit done for once.
America got uneducated and under skilled. Right now I have two living choices; live with my parents, or live under a bridge, And I'm 24 years old!!!!!!!! Simply Americans are not going to care about space travel when they are more worried about becoming homeless. It also doesn't help that Americans don't think we can do it anymore, It's not like our government is pulling out the bells an buttons to convinces their own people that we are the best anymore, "yes we can" kind of turned into "Well do it later" even before Obama showed up.
Oh my god, do you even know what you're saying? NASA is government-funded. Liberals are the ones who push to fund it!ReiverCorrupter said:
And this is nothing to say of your callous disregard for your fellow human being. I think you're trying to equate 'basic necessities such as shelter' with 'let's all buy each other yachts'.
US Military Spending Estimate for 2011: $1.060?$1.449 trillion
(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States )
The only way NASA will get its $19 billion for the Constellation Program is if it discovers life and promptly declares war on it.
(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States )
The only way NASA will get its $19 billion for the Constellation Program is if it discovers life and promptly declares war on it.
The idea of space travel is nice, and the idea of colonizing the moon or mars is even nicer. however at this time, I must point out that i think it simply isn't possible or wise to attempt these projects. the US government is 14 trillion in debt, and our social security system is collapsing due to extensive government borrowing. Even if we had the technology to settle on another planet (which we pointedly don't have) the resources required to would bankrupt the US in a second. If that doesn't bother you, consider this. air would need to be shipped to these colonies at regular intervals, as well water, mechanical components to maintain whatever sort of climate control system is in place, and the energy required to run these systems (in the form of fossil fuels since we don't have a reliable clean energy source.) Contrary to popular belief, space travel is no picnic, it costs money to create and launch a shuttle and remember to factor in the amount of those we would need to sustain a colony. also once in space astronauts suffer side effects, notably a reduction in bone and muscle tissue. on mars and the moon, which both have lower gravity than earth, people may eventually suffer an atrophy so severe that they can no longer return to Earth's stronger gravity.
I am very interested in space travel and sci-fi, but I don't believe outer space colonization at this point is a viable place to spend tax dollars. If anything, we should be using our money to pay our giant debts or to improve our economic condition. If our national debt was more balanced, I would be all in favor of a space program, but not one that simply sends people to the moon time and again. Rather, research into clean energy sources and climate control structures would be much more beneficial to the ultimate goal of creating a colony on another planet, opposed to sporadic expeditions to planets we can observe much more easily with a high-powered telescope or unmanned crafts.
Those are my thoughts at least.
I am very interested in space travel and sci-fi, but I don't believe outer space colonization at this point is a viable place to spend tax dollars. If anything, we should be using our money to pay our giant debts or to improve our economic condition. If our national debt was more balanced, I would be all in favor of a space program, but not one that simply sends people to the moon time and again. Rather, research into clean energy sources and climate control structures would be much more beneficial to the ultimate goal of creating a colony on another planet, opposed to sporadic expeditions to planets we can observe much more easily with a high-powered telescope or unmanned crafts.
Those are my thoughts at least.
No one's going to be given space colonies. It's not something your Daddy just fishes out of his pocket after you ask nicely. If you're ready to say that the programs being set in place to help the most in need in this country aren't necessary because everyone can be useful, then turn that judgmental fucking gaze on yourself. You want something? Do it on your own. If space is the best way you see yourself getting a job, find a way for Nike or Verizon to get you there. Or hell, build a ship in your own backyard for all I care. Screw other people, right?Kalezian said:
First I remember Tod Shnit (Probably misspelling his name) talking about this and getting pissed off as well so at least There was one media personality (a radio talk show host) that cared...
Also to the bleeding hearts I have this to say. The reason we have hungry persons is that we have a finite amount of resources. Now let's say we Increased our ability to produce food by I don't know having another planet we would a huge surplus of food and then by contrast should then be able to feed the world. Need a new start, then get your ass to mars. So in conclusion the long term fix for a lot of problems should be space the final frontier.
Also to the bleeding hearts I have this to say. The reason we have hungry persons is that we have a finite amount of resources. Now let's say we Increased our ability to produce food by I don't know having another planet we would a huge surplus of food and then by contrast should then be able to feed the world. Need a new start, then get your ass to mars. So in conclusion the long term fix for a lot of problems should be space the final frontier.