The Big Picture: Out of the Park

JoesshittyOs

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Aug 10, 2011
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Wait a second....

No, I object to this episode. While I've never personally said "I believe in this South Park Episode" before, they do have some very good points every once in a while.

Yes, it's funny before it's serious, but that doesn't mean that it can accidentally have a good point every once in a while. Everyone at one point in their internet life uses a quote from that show.
 

reciprocal

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Jun 4, 2009
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My question is: Would you say the same about Penn and Teller's Bullshit?

A lot of the issues lampooned on South Park (the more recent episodes) are very similar to the topics covered on Penn and Teller. A lot of them come to the same conclusion. Penn and Teller, however claim that they are backed up by a team of crack researchers and the purpose of their show is to educate the audience on some very important issues (albeit often in a crass way).

I would say gaining your political views from a cartoon is no worse than getting it from an internet forum, political speech (that always dodges the issue), paid advertisement that glosses over all the details and etc. At least the cartoon tends to be more accessible, less condescending and often spurs people to do their own research (which is the best outcome). At the worst it's another nutjob getting his views from popular media.

At least South Park doesn't pretend that it's serious.
 

floobie

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Sep 10, 2010
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Whoa, accent! Cool.

I think South Park is a decent show. But, I have noticed one trend: Usually, any given episode on any given topic explores why both extreme sides of the issue are stupid. So, I guess you could say that the creators consistently endorse something as simple as actually thinking about both sides of an issue... not just taking a knee-jerk, extreme position. They definitely waver from that message here and there, pushing their own take a bit more on occasion. But, if you look at the Mormon episode... they spent most of the episode going over how crazy Mormon beliefs are, then pointed out that completely writing someone off based on their beliefs alone is a dick thing to do. I'd say that's pretty balanced.
 

lowkey_jotunn

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Feb 23, 2011
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I don't get it ... South Park can't make a good socio-political point, just because it's all over the map?

It's actually quite the opposite. Trey and Matt, by devoting themselves to whatever happens to piss them off at the moment instead of a steady message, have provided a BETTER social commentary than someone who dodges certain issues because they're (as you put it) sacred cows. Not having a dedicated and uniformed message allowed them to point out flaws EVERYWHERE.

And yes, flaws exist EVERYWHERE. No one ideology or religion or political stance is perfect.

One of the big concepts on Star Trek (particularly TNG) was the elimination of poverty with the invention of replicators. Once food was effectively free, no one went hungry and everyone lived happily ever after. But, their left-of-center base doesn't allow them to contemplate the potential for rampant obesity, or crash in human productivity once everyone realized they didn't have to work hard to put food on the table. Might have made for some thought-provoking episodes

Is everything on South Park gold? No, don't be ridiculous. South Park takes everything up to 11, just to make it funnier. But generally the lunatic fringe of whatever issue they're tackling DOES exist, and really is as mind-numbingly pants-on-head-retarded as portrayed in the episode. For example, I play WoW. I'm also a Marine, in damned good physical shape, I've deployed to the deserts a few times, and I can accurately engage a man-sized target from 500 yards using an M-16 without the assistance of a scope or any support (bipod, sandbag, etc) I got a kick out of the WoW episode of South Park because I know there really are people like that. I see the little nuggets of truth buried in there, and I see the obvious embellishment layered on for comedic purposes.




And it's funny. It's REALLY funny.
 

Solo-Wing

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Dec 15, 2010
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You sound like that dude from The Big Bang Theory who can't pronounce his R's like Elmer Fudd.

But yeah it sounds a bit like the Scout. Now let's hear a BONK!

Also South Park is a godly show. I honestly love it.
 

DarthFennec

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May 27, 2010
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Golan Trevize said:
DarthFennec said:
Yeah, I never liked people who took their ideas from South Park (or from anywhere outside their own personal experience for that matter), but I've always found that 98% of the things Matt and Trey say in that show, I already agree with, and that they explain the reason they hold those views much better than I ever could.

Also, Bob sounding like the Scout automatically makes him a hundred times more badass.
100 * 0 = 0 :D

Sorry, but Bob is anything but badass.
What are you talking about, Bob is totally badass XD
 

Jaythulhu

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Jun 19, 2008
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I must be the only person who's never run across the "I get my beliefs from South Park" type on the net then.

I do find that many eps of SP mirror my own beliefs and ideas, like alcoholism not being a disease (throw obesity in there too and it's a double-whammy. There's no virus or bacteria that cause either of these. They're self inflicted. One's a chemical addiction, the other is, damned if I know. Those are arguments for another thread tho), but South Park is just a cartoon made to entertain, amuse and possibly annoy as many people as possible.

Taking your belief structure from a cartoon is as stupid as taking your belief system from, well, a religious institution, really. If you're not smart enough to work stuff out yourself, do us all a favour: Wear one of those signs Bill Engval has been talking about for years and stay OUT of public life/office.
 

Lieju

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Jan 4, 2009
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South Park is...

In mu subjective opinion, it's 90% shit. The 10% of it is brilliant, but I don't really feel like going through the shit to get to the gold.

Most of the time.
 

LazyAza

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May 28, 2008
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Wow I had no idea such idiots existed, thank god I don't know any they do sound extremely annoying.
 

bificommander

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Apr 19, 2010
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I personally liked south park whether it took on something I liked or something I hated. If I hated the thing, I could be amused by the takedown. If I liked it, I could be amused by how overblown the takedown tended to be. Plus, there were generally plenty of jokes that worked whatever I thought of it.

It's why I found it so grating when Chef left due to the scientology episode. By leaving essentially because the episode was offensive to his religion, he implied that he really intended to offend everyone who was made fun of in all the previous episodes, rather than just poking a little jab at it.
 

elitestranger1

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Nov 20, 2009
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the accent makes me laugh but at the same time im confused.
is it a joke? no? people really talk like that? interesting
please revert back to the fake accent its distracting and too much for my mind to handle. :S
i thought the UK was bad for various accents and custom languages. and im Welsh!
 

deanzig

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Jul 24, 2010
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Please, please, please talk naturally, Bob.

Regardless, Trey Parker and Matt Stone are obviously nihilists.

Nihilists! Fuck me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.
 

Calbeck

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Jul 13, 2008
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I have the exact same issues with people who quote The Daily Show or Colbert as their source for preferred reality. It's COMEDY. I love these shows, and also South Park, because they're funny. Not because I think that Shakeweights dispense cab fare when you're done.

That said, it's disingenuous to suggest that no actual political or social thought goes into South Park, any more than it would be to suggest the same about Daily or Colbert. What there is, is bound up primarily in the technique of mirrored logic, where the fallacy of a concept (and thus why it should be laughed at) is revealed by flipping the idea on its head and seeing what falls out.

Taking any of this at face value would, and does, defeat the entire point being made.


One such example? Right here in Bob's review, where he claims that the Mormon episode DOESN'T bash the religion in question like happened in the Scientology episode. Quite the contrary: Matt and Trey call bull$#!+ on both religions equally as being valid spiritual paths (and, apropos of nothing, also poke fun at religious factionalism in a different episode by having Heaven become a guessing game where you go to hell --- unless you picked "Mormon" as your faith).

The point, in both cases, has to do with the behavior exhibited by the people belonging to each religion. For all that Mormonism is attacked as made-up-BS in South Park, it is also recognized that Mormons themselves turn out to be decent folks you wouldn't mind having as neighbors. This is compared to Scientology, which --- well, it's Scientology. A Mormon may stop at asking you to take a free copy of "The Book", but Scientologists can't stop worrying until you get "cleared" via a few hundred expensive hours of "auditing".

By taking these episodes at face value, it seems Bob missed the point on his way to letting all of us know that we shouldn't take South Park's episodes at face value.

...okay.


EDIT: Also, "South Park Republicans" was a term coined to refer to those in the center-right spectrum. At the time Sullivan coined it, he was a Bush voter (2001) who later shifted to support Democrats in general, then Kerry and Obama in their respective presidential races.

He is renowned for having a variety of left-wing as well as right-wing views.

So, no. Not the "Limbaugh Republican Archetype" you were shooting for, Bob.
 

Toriver

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Jan 25, 2010
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Generic Gamer said:
Just going to throw this out there; when I hear people quoting some stupid adult cartoon for easy referencing to back up their ideas, the show is Family Guy and the people are Liberals.

Are you sure you're not just pissed off at South Park quoting because it contradicts a lot of your own ideas?

Though I'll give those idiots this; when it was laid down on the table exactly how despicable Brian is, most of them shut up.
This, right here, is pretty much exactly what I got out of this week's show. I'd bet ten bucks Bob wouldn't have a problem if South Park said more things he agrees with. South Park is pretty much the only widely viewed piece of satire that lends any sort of credence to conservative views at all. Seth McFarlane, being a well-known liberal, tends to make any sort of message to his shows left-leaning. Jon Stewart goes after Republicans FAR more than Democrats, and when he does take aim at the Dems, such as in the famous face-to-face chastising of Obama, it's for not being liberal enough or backing down from liberal values. Colbert's whole shtick is an over-the-top impersonation of conservative talking heads. SNL spent the entire last decade ridiculing Bush at every turn but won't touch Obama (though to be fair, that may be as much to avoid any accidental racism as it would be any agreement in ideology). It's widely known that in the entertainment business in general that liberals exponentially outnumber conservatives, and those conservatives who get any sort of respect are few and far between: Chuck Norris, Kelsey Grammer, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Clint Eastwood, Robert Redford and Mel Gibson before he went insane being the only ones I can think of off the top of my head, and of those, only Norris, Arnold and Redford were ever vocal about it, as compared to so many other Hollywood types who wear their liberalism on their sleeve. Within that list, only Kelsey Grammer works primarily in comedy, and his comedy is never overtly political in nature.

The point I'm trying to make is that conservative satire is a rare thing, and I just got the feeling that in this video, Bob was just angry that South Park provides some satire conservatives can look to for enjoyment without being the butt of the joke every time. Though with a character like Cartman and Matt and Trey's "nobody is safe" philosophy when it comes to the show, they still are the butt of the joke quite often.
 

i7omahawki

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Mar 22, 2010
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MovieBob said:
Out of the Park

You shouldn't turn to South Park for life lessons.

Watch Video
Y'know, I've learned something today. People shouldn't draw their personal philosophy or political beliefs from a cartoon on TV. We shouldn't rely on other people to tell us what to think, though it is reasonable to be influenced by others' beliefs and consider adopting them ourselves, our beliefs and opinions must always be ours. Culture is not a crutch, and we are each responsible for our decisions whether or not they were on TV.

Wait, this is the life lesson that is consistently presented on South Park, every disaster is caused (or made worse) by a mass response that isn't thought out by anybody...often influenced by television or celebrity.

What South Park provides is exactly what society needs right now, no - not fart jokes, but an eye for critical thinking and a reluctance to ever side with one side on every issue.

I think it's completely irresponsible to look at any philosopher / politician / thinker and draw the entirity of your beliefs from them. Most of all that's just lazy, but even worse is that it means the theory/belief is not being tested, just treated with blind faith. Any author/activist who doesn't actively spur and challenge their followers is irresponsible, and a pretty sucky leader. South Park, whatever their personal philosophy may be, acts in this way, and I'm glad the term "South Park Republican" has dissolved as it has.

I'm a bit unsure of these people saying: "Don't take South Park seriously!" because, well, the issues it deals with are serious, and they usually come up with some worrying points concerning them, all of which is very relevant. I wouldn't conflate "No explicit, concrete message," with "Nothing of worth to take away," because they do deal intelligently with issues, and often have something relevant to say that isn't raised elsewhere.

In a nutshell, South Park is fantastic precisely because it lacks a dogmatic message, but that doesn't mean it is 'just a cartoon' and therefore politically or philosophically irrelevant, just that its worth isn't in providing a consistent belief system, only a constant and consistent challenge to our beliefs and actions.