The Big Picture: Pink Is Not The Problem

MovieBob

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Pink Is Not The Problem

MovieBob takes on the gender stereotyping our society dabbles in.

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Ken_J

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Expanding on that tangent from Catching Fire are we?

Good episode though. I've been thinking something similar for a while but couldn't put it to words.
 

MB202

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I almost thought he was going to get into My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic for a moment there, since it ties into the fact that Lauren Faust created that show with the intent of showing that something "girly" doesn't automatically make it bad. Also, Bob's comments about "coded" characters is very similar to what the Nostalgia Chick said in her "Disney Needs More Gay" video, in that you can tell most villains are gay by being incredibly vain and feminine. It's strange, I never realized it until people like Lindsay (the Nostalgia Chick) and Bob pointed it out to me.
 

Burnouts3s3

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To me, this is a very well thought-out article about the female products. I this video is a lot better than the numerous discussions about gender separation I've seen on Youtube.
 

Strain42

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A good and poignant episode, Bob. But now that you've done episodes about this and Brian, we really need you to get back to Marvel stuff :p

And I'm not just saying that to be facetious, I mean c'mon...you yourself pointed out we've got confirmation of Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch in The Avengers 2, despite being mutant characters with shared owned rights by Fox. This is kind of a big deal.

An even bigger deal...you were right about Miracleman. He's coming back into Marvel's lore. Angela really was mostly just a red herring. I honestly feel celebrating that comeback and your rightness in that matter deserves a bit more exploration into just who Miracleman is and what his future role in his new home at Marvel might be.
 

Scarim Coral

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Mmm today episode remind me of this tumblr well news post of a Swedish Toy R Us catalogue or showing girls playing toy gunsand boys playing dolls-

http://weinryb.tumblr.com/post/36866571509/pingguo-swedish-toys-r-us-christmas-catalog
 

Plinglebob

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Nov 11, 2008
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Bob had me right up until the Hunger Games then he lost me. While I agree with his commentary on Katniss, he's reading way to much into the Capital aesthetic which, as Ronack mentions, is about money, but also about time. One of the reasons why women are often characterised by items in the pink isle is because traditionally they've had the time to spend on these things when the men are out working. The point of the Capitol people is that the way they look would take a lot of time and a lot of money which the districts don't have.
 

an annoyed writer

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Jun 21, 2012
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Well said, Bob, well said. That coding has also been quite damaging to people like us transwomen, who are often demonized by those who either hate femininity itself or those who set their sights too broadly and catch it in the crossfire. I'm one that doesn't mind the pink aisle, and in some cases indulges in some of the things that are most prominent there, such as the makeup, gowns, hairstyles, perfumes, and other things. What the whole thing feels like is that my interests are becoming even more of a "forbidden fruit" than when I was a child, where I was bullied into submission and forced to hide such things. To say the least it's quite damaging.
 

NinjaDeathSlap

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Feb 20, 2011
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This argument. I like it.

To use a more adult anecdote with a similar point, my mother chose to (largely, she still did a bit of part-time) give up her job and be a stay-at-home mother when she had me and my brother, and I often get the impression that a lot of people, both male and female, who laud themselves as 'feminists', look down their nose at that choice, thinking it to be regressive and preferring to dismiss it as being the result of some kind of societal indoctrination making her believe she didn't have a choice (something which, you'll have to trust me on this, my mother is waaaaaaaaaaayyy too intelligent to fall for).

So yeah, our family dynamic ended up looking fairly traditional and nuclear, but that was the choice my parents made and should be perfectly entitled to make, and it pisses me off no end when I feel people are turning their noses up at them because it's not progressive and unconventional enough for their 21st Century sensibilities, as if freedom of choice for women wasn't the whole point of feminism in the first place.
 

Trilandian

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Oct 3, 2011
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I don't agree with Bob on many of the things he says, but I applaud this recent presentation. Very well done.
 

Wolfenbarg

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Oct 18, 2010
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Ronack said:
The thing about The Hunger Games is that it isn't coded Male and Female, but rather Rich and Poor. It's a commentary on our modern society. Just look at what the Rich are wearing, ffs. Those looks are straight from some designers runway. Butt ugly and expensive as fuck, but the rich still buy it because rich. Whilst the poor need to work their ass off to survive, having to fight against the system by the rich in the meantime.
There are so many ways to juxtapose the dichotomy of rich and poor. In some countries they force feed women into obesity. In India it's so bad that the rich compete to build the most extravagant hotel towers that look right over the largest slums in the world. They try to bleach their skin white and chase little kids away from their fancy cars. Hell, even if you stick to the west, the rich are not flamboyant and effeminate. They're cold business people who wear designer suits. They do not follow runway fashion.

Essentially, the rich and poor dichotomy in the Hunger Games is pointing out the media industry as the villains. That makes no sense, because media types are not that rich. They barely make anything compared to the parent companies who own all of the media giants. Bob's right on the money, bro.
 

Makabriel

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So survival and struggle and being oppressed is a Male code, while decadence, false masks, deceit and oppression is a Female code?

Intriguing..

I don't understand the rallying cry toward blurring the line and making everything grey. I have no problem with girls playing with boy toys and vice-versa. But there is nothing wrong with "coding" a female or male marketed toy to a certain set of colors. It's years of cultural evolution that really is harming no one.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
MB202 said:
I almost thought he was going to get into My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic for a moment there, since it ties into the fact that Lauren Faust created that show with the intent of showing that something "girly" doesn't automatically make it bad. Also, Bob's comments about "coded" characters is very similar to what the Nostalgia Chick said in her "Disney Needs More Gay" video, in that you can tell most villains are gay by being incredibly vain and feminine. It's strange, I never realized it until people like Lindsay (the Nostalgia Chick) and Bob pointed it out to me.
I'm really surprised he didn't mention ponies also, since I've heard that one reason they are starting to get rid of the pink isle is so that male bronies didn't feel weird looking for mlp stuff at toys R us. It's also really interesting how the mlp toys are packaged.

we have one of the standard sets, with even a pink Princess Celestia (ugh, CELESTIA ISN'T PINK DAMMIT) clearly aimed at the young girl age group.


but then we got something like the vinyl figures and their packaging is mostly black, aimed at an older male collectors market.
 

wizzy555

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Oct 14, 2010
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MB202 said:
I almost thought he was going to get into My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic for a moment there, since it ties into the fact that Lauren Faust created that show with the intent of showing that something "girly" doesn't automatically make it bad. Also, Bob's comments about "coded" characters is very similar to what the Nostalgia Chick said in her "Disney Needs More Gay" video, in that you can tell most villains are gay by being incredibly vain and feminine. It's strange, I never realized it until people like Lindsay (the Nostalgia Chick) and Bob pointed it out to me.
I'm never sure if that's something against gay people or just how Americans see the British.

All the villains have British voices you know.

Personally only scar comes across as even remotely gay.
 

Tireseas_v1legacy

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Sep 28, 2009
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Excellent point, Bob. Being able to separate the problem (ingrained western gender stereotypes) with the symptom (the "pink aisle") is really important.

More interesting is how those steps are being made by some within the toy industry. For example, watch at the commercial below (currently the subject of a copyright lawsuit) and note how the advertisers both directly push back against the pink aisle concept (pink princesses and dolls) while not totally disposing of the one of its more defining traits (color aesthetic).
 

Mikeyfell

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Yeah! If pink things were bad Pinkie Pie wouldn't be best pony.
[sub]okay I'll stop this now[/sub] Hold on, no I wont. This is actually relevant.

This reminds me of a video (which wasn't a Big Picture but it was equally insightful and entertaining) about MLP being "The new manly" and whether that was the prevailing opinion because self proclaimed "masculine men" didn't want to admit they liked something feminine, or if it was a sign that barrier between the masculine and feminine distinctions is becoming more fuzzy, or if it was proof that the distinction between masculine and feminine is completely arbitrary.d

Personally I side with the second option. It's hard to deny that somethings are "masculine" and other things are "feminine" I mean hell I grew up in the 90's where the lighter the color was the more likely you'd get made fun of for playing with it.
The question shouldn't be "Is that for boys or girls?" it should be "Who likes it?"
Some things are cool, like the commercials that run during Legend of Kora are primarily for "girl's things" But LoK is an action show. So the line is already starting to blur, which is awesome.