The Big Picture: The Big Spoiler: Iron Man 3

ManInRed

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May 16, 2010
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I kind of saw the possibility of the Mandarin being just a spokesperson to the real villain from how the movie was advertise, and in some ways its good that they push this idea to its logical extreme -even if it kind trashes the current attempts to improve this villain in the comics from its original stereotype target. There is a meta-logic to the whole thing.

However, what I wanted to see going into this movie was for the Mandarin to be a spokes person, but also have been one of Killian's brain trust geniuses, who was using Killian as much as he was being used as being the scapegoat for the attacks. With this setup, you could actually have the Mandarin eventually reveal he had been hiding the alien tech he has studied, and had just been working with Killian to steal the perfected Extremis formula. They could have pulled that off even with the funny twist, with one good magic blast to escape from Iron Man. I wish it was just implied.

Oh well, there could always be some genius kung fu guy studying alien tech, who saw all these terrorist videos. Maybe they would be inspired to take on the image, especially if they want to annoy Tony Stark. We could still see the real deal some day, and this explanation for the image actually fits the reason for the imagine in the comics perfectly.
 

romxxii

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Feb 18, 2010
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unacomn said:
Am I the only one that saw Killian more as Fin Fang Fum? The fire breathing, the dragon tattoos, the him "making" the Mandarin. (because his rings were from Fin Fang Fum's crashed ship)
No, there was another guy at the AV Club spoiler section for Iron Man 3 who thought the same thing. Had to break the news to him that fire-breathing is part of the canon powerset of Extremis, as per Warren Ellis' book.

Unless you're that guy too, in which case, sorry bro.
 

Draconalis

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Sep 11, 2008
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I didn't mind the Mandarin twist at all... I never actually liked Mandarin as a character anyway.

What I didn't like about Ironman 3 was Killian. He was a mundane character with nothing to make him interesting.

I loved the parts with Tony Stark... but the rest of the movie was just... a huge let down for me. I thought it was over all disappointing.

And I hated the montage of "I'm not Ironman anymore... except I am... but not really" at the end.
 

Diddy_Mao

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Jan 14, 2009
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Given the Avengers ending stinger and the knowledge that a Guardians of the Galaxy movie is coming down the line I was really expecting more from The Mandarin. Specifically that one or more of his rings were going to be revealed to be Infinity gems.

Imagine my surprise when I couldn't have been more wrong if it was wrong o'clock on the feast of St. Wrongsworth.

On the topic at hand though...I actually like the twist quite a bit.
Not so much the Trevor character, I can take or leave him, but more the idea that The Mandarin doesn't exist.
Or more to the point that The Mandarin was an image created to prey on the Xenophobic fears of a post 9-11 America.

I like it because every conversation I had about this movie prior to it's release could be boiled down to "How the fuck are you going to update the Mandarin? He's a racist cartoon character meant to prey on the Xenopobic fears of a cold war era America. And you can't just swap him out to turn him into Osama Bin Mandarin and expect that to go over well either."

So their ultimate decision to go balls out and just out the character by defining him as exactly what he is was a bold move that I think paid off really well.
 

rosac

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Sep 13, 2008
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My view- the mandarin is real, Killian admitting that he is the real mandarin is just another scapegoat. He's out there somewhere. And he is watching, and waiting, and you will never see him coming.

Also, Killian as a villain was rather dull in my mind. There's no grandeur, no sense of "Oh wow." I want a magneto to my professor xavier, a Horus to my emperor. Instead I get a lab technician who's on fire. Brilliant. With the exception of Loki, I have this issue with all the Marvel villains so far. Even the red skull.
 

SideSmash

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May 24, 2011
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Calling it: Iron Man dies in Avengers 2. Like, ACTUALLY dies and not like Coulson. The ripples of his death are felt throughout Phase 3.
 

ash12181987

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Nov 9, 2010
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I'm now wanting John Favreau to do a Big Trouble in Little China reboot...

But yeah, Sir Ben, playing the actor stumbling across superpowers, wearing magical rings in a temple surrounded by used Bud cans... I would watch that movie
 

Orekoya

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Sep 24, 2008
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aba1 said:
Orekoya said:
aba1 said:
I actually prefer the realism and I hate when comics just drop all pretense of any kinda good story just to do something that will sell.
What?

Wait...

What?

So, in your mind, a story won't be good if they deviate from realism?

This isn't to be a dick, I just don't understand the logic behind what you just said. Please explain this.
Again didn't say that I said I prefer realism or at least the more realistic takes on things and then in a related but separate note that I hate when comics will drop all pretense of logical progression to create something illogical because it will sell more.

You combined my two thoughts into one.
Thanks for clarifying that but the combination was not my doing but your sentence structure. You have absolutely no segue between the two thoughts - you just say you prefer realism then immediately follow it up with saying you hate it when comics drop all pretense of any kinda good story. Since I have nothing further to read from than that, it carries the implication that you were saying that deviating from realism is dropping said pretense.
 

Redd the Sock

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The only thing I really had with the twist was that I did see it coming before the rest of the audience. Drop one hint that Killian and the Mandarin were in it together and all ideas that Mandarin was in charge went out the window. In hindsight, it should have been obvious. As you said, Iron Man's rogues list is a joke, and Even Mandarin wasn't that serious a villain until the late 90s, until then his largest claim to fame had involved Psylocke from the X-Men. Iron Man's true worst enemies lists (at least since the armor wars) would be topped by the Justin Hammers, the Roxons, and other businessmen that put lives beneath profits, so the bait and switch might be a low blow, but given the political climate, I really have no issues with a cheap metaphoric shot that the military industrial complex and its need for a boogeyman to keep us buyins everything form fighter jets to private arsenals.

I don't see a serious Mandarin as something to look forward to, unless the Avengers wants to go the Masters of Evil route. Granted, given some of the larger ideas I've had with the Infinity Gems for Thanos, there is something to work with there.
 

jimClassic

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Jun 4, 2008
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Bob this is the second video I cannot watch bc of the spoilers. I look forward to your videos Bob, but I can't watch them if you're going to pull these stunts.

PS I'm just giving you a hard time. I'm not really mad. I'll watch this after I've seen the movie.
 

TheNaut131

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Jul 6, 2011
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I actually kinda liked the twist. Though I'm kinda sick of the "villain-isn't-the-villain-at-all" trope and EVIL BUSINESSMEN MAKING WAAAAAR, I oddly liked it. It was absurd. I mean, plenty of people guessed it *coughbullshitcough* but I didn't really expect THAT.

And At first I figured, "Tony found a decoy whose making porno of the Mandarin, didn't he?" But nope, this guy's the Mandarin! I especially like the scene where Rodey finds out because it looks like he's going to cry for a few seconds. But then things got kinda meh...they really underused the Extremis plot-line and Tony's new armor. Especially Tony's armor.

I thought when Tony's armor sent him to Tennessee without his permission and when he was sitting next to it or talking about Iron Man as if the suit was a literal person; I figured they were foreshadowing that the suit was a bit more than a suit. I thought back to the trailers with Tony's suit flying in, and it suddenly seemed more badass. But nope, regular ole suit. He rarely uses it...or shows it off...actually, it's damaged for a good chunk of the movie.

Also, Extremis could've been better. When the henchman survives the explosions, it made you think "wow, this stuff is badass!" But nope, just melty people. Seriously, Extremis could've been done so much better and really didn't need to be watered down like this. Super strength? Sure. Enhanced regeneration? Go for it. Hell, even a few more outlandish things could've worked, but I don't think melty people do. Could've tied in some super soldier stuff if they wanted too.

Overall, a lot of the main selling point of this movie were oddly undersold. It's an alright movie, but most Hollywood movies are "all right."

This one honestly could've been better.
 

Trinab

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Feb 1, 2013
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I just came back from the movie, and I went there knowing there was a big twist.

When I left the movie, I was left wondering what the twist was. I'm starting to know too much about writing stories. :(

The way Killian was introduced in the flashback clearly identified him as a big deal. When he came to Stark Industries all fit and suave, with a suspicious henchman, I immediately realized this was the main antagonist. To make a good antagonist, a writer needs to make it personal between the antagonist and protagonist. When it showed Killian arriving, smirking after Potts, it rang that little bell. The link between Killian's henchman and the terrorists attack sealed the deal for me, so the big twist wasn't really a surprise to me, so much so I was expecting something utterly different. One does not waste that much time developing the second in command to the antagonist.

The Mandarin was too detached, too different and out there to strike me as the primary antagonist. I admit I was not expecting him to be a drunken druggie however, so I guess they got me there?
 

pretzil

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Jan 30, 2010
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Dammit, I was told that the twist was that The Mandarin was Tony Stark's father so I refused to see the movie...
 

thetruefallen

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Mar 12, 2008
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Thanks for the spoiler warning, I clicked the Big Picture link without reading the description, then you said stop and go see iron man 3, so i did and now im back i more or less agree to what you are saying. The only thing in the entire movie that kept breaking me out of it was the fact that the iron man suits would melt but hardly any clothes were burned.