The Big Picture: The Fall of Kevin Smith, Part II

MovieBob

New member
Dec 31, 2008
11,495
0
0
The Fall of Kevin Smith, Part II

MovieBob continues his examination of Kevin Smith's film career.

Watch Video
 

Robot-Jesus

New member
Aug 29, 2011
82
0
0
I was under the impression that mallrats was miss marketed as a typical romantic comedy, when the reality was trying to make a smarter version of Porkies? Is this something invented for the DVD commentary?
 

ZZoMBiE13

Ate My Neighbors
Oct 10, 2007
1,908
0
0
Man I really liked those movies back in the 90s. My friends and I could practically quote most of Mallrats for the better part of the decade. I find most of them hard to watch now though. Which I guess is the point of this little exercise.

I stand by Amy though. I enjoyed that one quite a bit even though Dogma eclipsed it.
 

MowDownJoe

New member
Apr 8, 2009
464
0
0
Dogma was great. I never watched J&SBSB, mostly because I was born in '86 and having never seen any of Kevin Smith's films at the time just thought it was really dumb from the ads.

So... next week, Clerks 2? I actually liked it, but I can see Bob using that as a point where Kevin Smith "peaked".
 

Evonisia

Your sinner, in secret
Jun 24, 2013
3,258
0
0
So Clerks II is where it all fell apart? I can't judge, I only remember watching it once and liking it.

Also, I'm guessing there will be an obligatory kick in Red State's teeth next week.
 

Ticklefist

New member
Jul 19, 2010
487
0
0
Mallrats was still my favorite of the bunch, but yeah, after Jay and Silent Bob I kinda jumped ship. Interested to see what it was about the stuff that came after that rubbed people so wrong.
 

schwegburt

New member
Jan 5, 2012
29
0
0
I vaguely remember MovieBob saying Clerks II was a good throwback or summing up of Silent Bob's career. It'll probably be from after that point that things drop off.
 

Eleuthera

Let slip the Guinea Pigs of war!
Sep 11, 2008
1,673
0
0
MowDownJoe said:
So... next week, Clerks 2? I actually liked it, but I can see Bob using that as a point where Kevin Smith "peaked".
Evonisia said:
So Clerks II is where it all fell apart? I can't judge, I only remember watching it once and liking it.
After JSBSB came Jersey Girl, I think that's what Bob was hinting at. Personally I love that film, one of my favourites by KS. But overall it was received very badly, mostly due to the Affleck/JLo debacle going on at the time.

EDIT: Clerks II was ok I guess, but not great. Zack and Miri was pretty bad and I haven't seen any of his later films (film?)
 

bobdole1979

New member
Mar 25, 2009
63
0
0
so this isn't the Fall of Kevin Smith but Moviebob putting his hopes and dreams on a normal guy.... So its the Fall of Moviebob?
 

Spaceman Spiff

New member
Sep 23, 2013
604
0
0
Huh. I thought Mallrats was fairly beloved. I've only seen a bit of it myself on TV, but anytime it's brought up in conversation people only praise it. I'll definitely check in for next week's episode to see what Bob has to say about Clerks 2 and Zack and Miri.
 

Avaholic03

New member
May 11, 2009
1,520
0
0
The problem I've seen with all Kevin Smith movies is that none of them hold up at all. I remember watching Clerks, Mallrats, Chasing Amy and Dogma many years ago and liking them for the most part. But I've seen a couple of them lately and I couldn't even sit through the whole thing.

Maybe it's just that you have to be in a very narrow demographic to appreciate them, and now that I'm older I just don't think like that anymore. Maybe I grew up while Kevin Smith stayed the same relatively immature guy.
 

Scarim Coral

Jumped the ship
Legacy
Apr 30, 2020
18,159
1
3
Country
UK
Heh, I didn't realise that Chasing Amy was his work. I only saw 10 minutes of it late at night but I went to bed cos I was tried (didn't see the part when that guy talked to Jay and Silent Bob).
 

Stabby Joe

New member
Jul 30, 2008
1,545
0
0
So far I'm at least glad you haven't retroactively began not liking his earlier work which is the impression I got during past Big Picture/Escape episodes.

That said, Smith recently released his 300th podcast and even if you do not like his recent film output, he himself does not come off badly, hence why I and others don't understand why a multiple part deconstruction was necessary, More so given he is still working, possibly even more than in previous years in the near future.
 

Uriel_Hayabusa

New member
Apr 7, 2014
418
0
0
bobdole1979 said:
so this isn't the Fall of Kevin Smith but Moviebob putting his hopes and dreams on a normal guy.... So its the Fall of Moviebob?
Yeah, that's also the impression I got - and if the comments section of last week's episode is to be believed I'm not the only one.

From what I can tell, Smith isn't so much an artist who failed to reach his full potential as he is a one-trick pony whose trick got old after a while.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,760
0
0
I'm not sure Smith was deconstructing sexuality in the 90s with Amy. It'd be one thing if this was an Alyssa-specific sort of thing, but based on Smith's talk since then, that seems to be way he thinks gays are. Or, at least, the way he thinks lesbians are. The plans he mentions for JSBSB sounded like they went along those lines, too, if the "lesbian gang" thing is to be believed.

Eleuthera said:
After JSBSB came Jersey Girl, I think that's what Bob was hinting at. Personally I love that film, one of my favourites by KS. But overall it was received very badly, mostly due to the Affleck/JLo debacle going on at the time.
I'm surprised people could forget this. Even if one considered bad (And, for the record, I do, though it has its moments), this was kind of a big deal that got mocked and ranted about for yeeeeeears. I got it bundled with another movie and was expecting something truly horrible because of the outcry and it was...MEH. I thought it was bad, but not bad enough to burn Smith in effigy.

bobdole1979 said:
so this isn't the Fall of Kevin Smith but Moviebob putting his hopes and dreams on a normal guy.... So its the Fall of Moviebob?
No, it's more like the "fall" of almost everyone in the limelight. The public elevates people unfairly quite often, and then decries their downfall or inability to live up to promises never made. I mean, that's my assumption. This is pretty boilerplate stuff, though.

Spaceman Spiff said:
Huh. I thought Mallrats was fairly beloved. I've only seen a bit of it myself on TV, but anytime it's brought up in conversation people only praise it. I'll definitely check in for next week's episode to see what Bob has to say about Clerks 2 and Zack and Miri.
There's definitely a split on this movie, though I think it veers more to the negative side of things. It's not as "intelligent" as Amy or Dogma, as raw as Clerks, and runs into the problem that even as a fun comedy movie it's not necessarily any better than JSBSB. I suppose that's debatable, but most people who hated it seemed to hate it back when it first came out or in relation to movies a little closer in age.

In any case, I enjoy it.
 

Shameless

New member
Jun 28, 2010
603
0
0
Dogma is pretty much the only Kevin Smith movie I liked, the rest wasn't that great in my opinion.
 

Hunter Grant

New member
Aug 27, 2013
23
0
0
I still don't see where this is going in terms of how personal you make the jabs at Smith, which is by and large my problem. I don't especially care which of his films you like or don't like what, if any, talent or promise he held as a film maker. You trot him out to say, hey he's evidence that Gen Xrs are useless and led us down a bad path, stop asking this dumbass about Batman etc. and the way its framed has nothing to do with him as a film maker or his movies. You just act like you saw someone you know walking down the street and said see that guy, I fucking hate him, and I'm all like why and you respond, I thought his work would get better, so you hate his work, no I hate him, and I have to come back to why, he never hurt you.

That's a mess up there, but the thing is its just that you can't seem to separate the work from the man. The Man, a staunched supporter of gay rights and on the right side of other issues, I like. Even if I didn't like his movies, which actually I like pretty much the same ones you do. Funny how I can do that.
 

JUMBO PALACE

I'd Rather Be Squatting
Legacy
Jun 22, 2020
3,544
2
3
Country
USA
I do appreciate the fact that even though Bob has set this up as a tale of Kevin Smith's fall from grace he isn't shy of giving credit where credit is due and being honest about the films he genuinely enjoyed. A lot of people would explain away Smith's success or downplay their enthusiasm for his films in an effort to further their overall point. As a pretty big fan of most of Smith's movies I'm interested to see where this is all going. I can understand being down on Red State but if Bob talks shit about Zac and Miri I'll have a bone to pick.