The Big Picture: The Girl of Tomorrow

CrazyGirl17

I am a banana!
Sep 11, 2009
5,141
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I do like comics... though the way they get convoluted is admittedly a pain...

Maybe it's best we move on to something else next time (loved the talking over the credits bit, BTW.)
 

Tanis

The Last Albino
Aug 30, 2010
5,264
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Next week: Power Girl

Because, well, it's the only logical place to go.
 

maximara

New member
Jul 13, 2008
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franksands said:
Falseprophet said:
In their defense, we're talking about characters that have been around for up to 70+ years, most of whom had at least one, and sometimes several, comic books about them come out every month for many of those decades, and since the rise of the direct market in the last 30 years or so, have mostly been bought by the same hardcore group of 16-40 year old neckbeards who thrive on the continuity--and the vast majority of writers, artists, and editors come from the same group of fans. So what do you do? Appease the few thousand hardcores who are keeping you afloat, or try to branch out and risk failing utterly? Once in a while, Marvel or DC try to do both, which is where things like Crisis on Infinite Earths, the Marvel Ultimates line, and the New 52 come from. But generally, they stay the course and appeal to the existing fanbase, which isn't smart long-term thinking, but there you go.

The more successful movie and series adaptations of superhero comics tend to be those that jettison most of the continuity that only appeals to those few thousand hardcore fans, while focusing on the foundations of the characters, which have more universal appeal. E.g. teenaged nerd gets spider-like superpowers, fails to stop a criminal from killing his uncle, and now feels responsible for fighting crime. Really easy to understand. That same guy married to a supermodel, but in actuality a clone of himself, and he and his wife sell their wedded bliss to the Devil to bring his aunt back to life? WTF?
I think it's impossible to maintain a good coherent compelling story for more than 10 years. Five, if you cut the fillers and bullshit to a minimum. That's why I like the japanese model better: create one story, develop it, finish and be done with it. With rare exceptions, the japanese mangas never have sequels after it's done.
The problem is that all these character "live" as it were in a shared universe and *that* is where the problems come from.

As for the Japanese model that is for the most part an illusion created by how the material comes to the US. Many manga actually start out as serialized fiction (Weekly Shōnen Sunday is very popular in this regard) and we generally only get *part* of the series.

3x3 Eyes for example ran from 1987 to 2002 spanning an insane 40 volumes but we have to date only seen the parts that make up the OVA--a pitiful 6 volumes (made into 8 volumes by Dark Horse)

Tenchi Muyo! is only 18 years old and sports no less then 13 (!!!) different manga continuities (many of which have not been translated into English)

Sailor Moon was only supposed to last through the Beryl arc but popularity resulted in four more manga arcs--resulting in a confused dysfunctional mess that makes Hawkman post-Crisis understandable by comparison.

Dragon ball the manga is nearly as a confused mess as Dragon Ball the animated series.

Ranma 1/2 (one of the few series that came to the US intact) clocks in at 38 volumes spanning 9 years and being a comedy it can get away with being a continuity train wreck.

No Japanese manga are just as a confused dysfunctional mess as US comicbooks--we are just getting a trimmed down version that makes them *appear* to be more coherent.
 

Elijah Newton

New member
Sep 17, 2008
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Butting in for a quick gripe : I haven't read SG comics but holy carp the art for them was farking terrrrrrrrrible. I think this is maybe even worse than the 'tracing over the porn stars' school of superheroine design. 2:59, 3:09, 3;52 aren't great but 4:23 is one of the scariest things I've ever seen. What is going on with that pelvis? Or the abs? Or the crazy little legs? 4:34 must be the same artist, just yeeeegh. Please, somebody hire this guy a model for live figure drawing for an afternoon. Maybe we should start a kickstarter or something...
 

n00beffect

New member
May 8, 2009
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Holy c#!@! And people ask me why I'm not into comics... Why should I be? This is a story-telling nightmare. I'm sure that hardcore fans of these things - whom by the way I admire greatly for putting up with this nonsense - probably don't see it that way, but still... Comic book writers try to arouse (and eventually hide behind) an air of complexity, but really - it's just obtuse.
 

Penguin_Factory

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Sep 13, 2010
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This is exactly why I don't read superhero comics. In any other medium that much concentrated bullshit would rightly be called out as bad writing.

Not that the video series wasn't entertaining, it's still fun to get the reader's digest version of all this.
 

search_rip

New member
Jan 6, 2009
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Bob's "I'm not getting into that" and "Nobody cares" pretty sums my feelings about everything DC except my undying love for Batman :p
 

vxicepickxv

Slayer of Bothan Spies
Sep 28, 2008
3,126
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franksands said:
Falseprophet said:
In their defense, we're talking about characters that have been around for up to 70+ years, most of whom had at least one, and sometimes several, comic books about them come out every month for many of those decades, and since the rise of the direct market in the last 30 years or so, have mostly been bought by the same hardcore group of 16-40 year old neckbeards who thrive on the continuity--and the vast majority of writers, artists, and editors come from the same group of fans. So what do you do? Appease the few thousand hardcores who are keeping you afloat, or try to branch out and risk failing utterly? Once in a while, Marvel or DC try to do both, which is where things like Crisis on Infinite Earths, the Marvel Ultimates line, and the New 52 come from. But generally, they stay the course and appeal to the existing fanbase, which isn't smart long-term thinking, but there you go.

The more successful movie and series adaptations of superhero comics tend to be those that jettison most of the continuity that only appeals to those few thousand hardcore fans, while focusing on the foundations of the characters, which have more universal appeal. E.g. teenaged nerd gets spider-like superpowers, fails to stop a criminal from killing his uncle, and now feels responsible for fighting crime. Really easy to understand. That same guy married to a supermodel, but in actuality a clone of himself, and he and his wife sell their wedded bliss to the Devil to bring his aunt back to life? WTF?
I think it's impossible to maintain a good coherent compelling story for more than 10 years. Five, if you cut the fillers and bullshit to a minimum. That's why I like the japanese model better: create one story, develop it, finish and be done with it. With rare exceptions, the japanese mangas never have sequels after it's done.
Single person web comics can last for years without issues. Look at Dominic Deegan or Something Positive as solid examples of single man events that have both solid continuity and long lasting stories.
 

bj_waters

New member
Apr 13, 2009
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I just wanted to say that I enjoyed the extended ending over the credits. I don't know if that's a gimmick you want to do every week, but I think it would be fun to see/hear again.
 

mattttherman3

New member
Dec 16, 2008
3,105
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Man, new 52 is annoying, 5 batman comics plus 7 others starring batman family members. (Dark Knight, Batman, Batman and Robin, Detective comics, Batman incorporated) then family (Nightwing, Batgirl, Batwing, Teen Titans, Batwoman, Birds of Prey, Catwoman) ugh... I stopped buying them, I like to keep up with everything, can't justify the cost :( will only buy really good arcs from now on.
 

Crimson_Dragoon

Biologist Supreme
Jul 29, 2009
795
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vxicepickxv said:
franksands said:
Falseprophet said:
In their defense, we're talking about characters that have been around for up to 70+ years, most of whom had at least one, and sometimes several, comic books about them come out every month for many of those decades, and since the rise of the direct market in the last 30 years or so, have mostly been bought by the same hardcore group of 16-40 year old neckbeards who thrive on the continuity--and the vast majority of writers, artists, and editors come from the same group of fans. So what do you do? Appease the few thousand hardcores who are keeping you afloat, or try to branch out and risk failing utterly? Once in a while, Marvel or DC try to do both, which is where things like Crisis on Infinite Earths, the Marvel Ultimates line, and the New 52 come from. But generally, they stay the course and appeal to the existing fanbase, which isn't smart long-term thinking, but there you go.

The more successful movie and series adaptations of superhero comics tend to be those that jettison most of the continuity that only appeals to those few thousand hardcore fans, while focusing on the foundations of the characters, which have more universal appeal. E.g. teenaged nerd gets spider-like superpowers, fails to stop a criminal from killing his uncle, and now feels responsible for fighting crime. Really easy to understand. That same guy married to a supermodel, but in actuality a clone of himself, and he and his wife sell their wedded bliss to the Devil to bring his aunt back to life? WTF?
I think it's impossible to maintain a good coherent compelling story for more than 10 years. Five, if you cut the fillers and bullshit to a minimum. That's why I like the japanese model better: create one story, develop it, finish and be done with it. With rare exceptions, the japanese mangas never have sequels after it's done.
Single person web comics can last for years without issues. Look at Dominic Deegan or Something Positive as solid examples of single man events that have both solid continuity and long lasting stories.
To be fair, web-comics are small, self-contained, and creator-owned, and having one author throughout means greater control over story continuity. Most comics (the big ones, at least) have none of these advantages. We're talking about characters that have decades upon decades of stories across multiple titles (usually at the same time) with multiple authors (who are usually switched out every few years) who have to answer to editorial demands. There's no good way to keep a character around that long, while keeping him fresh and interesting, without building up a mess of continuity. Sometimes, we need necessary evils like Infinite Crisis and New 52 to throw out or change things around to keep everything in order.

Of course, in an ideal world, authors could just write whatever they wanted without having to worry about all this nonsense, but good luck convincing fans to completely throw out continuity. I believe Bob has pointed this out before, and it is the truth: nerds love their continuity. I'm as guilty of it as anyone else.
 

MetalMagpie

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Jun 13, 2011
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themilo504 said:
So wait Christianity and Greek mythology both exists in the dc universe?
Did any writer ever do anything with that fact? Establish how that works?
Angels exist in a lot of faiths beyond Christianity. Judaism, Islam, Hinduism (although they're more like demigods there), modern Paganism, etc.

Unless there's a specifically Christian reference that I missed...

Besides, if we're going to be really petty for a moment, Christianity doesn't actually rule out there being more than one god. The Bible simply forbids worshipping any god other than Yahweh. It doesn't (to my knowledge) say there aren't any other gods. (And one might suggest that there's no point having the "have no gods before me" rule if no other gods exist anyway.)

So the idea of Yahweh and the Greek gods existing in the same reality is fine in my head.
 

Sniper Team 4

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Apr 28, 2010
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Next week, Batgirl! Ha ha ha.

I started getting lost the moment it turned out that the Supergirl from the cartoon show wasn't the same Supergirl as the original one. Because my brain went, "What, they're different? But how--" and by then, it was too late. Lost on the endless sea of comic books. Oh well. Still a fun video to watch. I like these ones that are about comics.
 

Hutzpah Chicken

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Mar 13, 2012
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I feel like Bob should stop talking about comics for awhile. Either that or explain what the hell is with Capitan Marvel.
 

WieldsOblivion

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May 1, 2012
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First time I've watched Movie Bob and all I can think when he trails off at the end is, "I'm Cave Johnson. We're done here."
 

maximara

New member
Jul 13, 2008
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MetalMagpie said:
themilo504 said:
So wait Christianity and Greek mythology both exists in the dc universe?
Did any writer ever do anything with that fact? Establish how that works?
Angels exist in a lot of faiths beyond Christianity. Judaism, Islam, Hinduism (although they're more like demigods there), modern Paganism, etc.

Unless there's a specifically Christian reference that I missed...

Besides, if we're going to be really petty for a moment, Christianity doesn't actually rule out there being more than one god. The Bible simply forbids worshipping any god other than Yahweh. It doesn't (to my knowledge) say there aren't any other gods. (And one might suggest that there's no point having the "have no gods before me" rule if no other gods exist anyway.)

So the idea of Yahweh and the Greek gods existing in the same reality is fine in my head.
In fact is is mandatory for Billy Batson Shazam's powers to work as his first power (the Wisdom of Solomon) comes from Yahweh while the rest come from Roman gods, a Titan, and a demi-god.
 

RJ 17

The Sound of Silence
Nov 27, 2011
8,687
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Gotta be my favorite episode of this little Super Girl trilogy, mostly because of all the uses of phrases meaning "No one cared, moving on."

As entertaining and enlightning as these past three episodes have been, I have to say Bob, I think that phrase pretty much sums things up. :p

And of course, Sentient Captcha seems to agree:
"ball of confusion"
 

Elois

New member
Dec 10, 2012
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franksands said:
I think it's impossible to maintain a good coherent compelling story for more than 10 years. Five, if you cut the fillers and bullshit to a minimum. That's why I like the japanese model better: create one story, develop it, finish and be done with it. With rare exceptions, the japanese mangas never have sequels after it's done.
My thoughts exactly.

Manga develops its characters, brings the story to a satisfying conclusion and is done once its over. One of the reasons I can't get invested into things like bleach, its just been going on for way to long.