You may, but you'll have to fit your hand through the internet-tubes, I take no credit for the acronym, and you have no idea where my hand has been. Again, your choice.Morbira said:
The Big Picture: The New Green
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
I'd give a lot more crap (and a crapton of rage) if they deliberately made a confirmed straight character to pull a "homosexual now" twist. Roy Harper, for example... it's bad enough that they killed off his daughter pre-reboot (destroying his identity as a single father figure), but then they made him younger in the reboot and wrote his daughter out of continuity (being "too young" and whatnot). Making him homosexual on top of all this (keep in mind, his daughter was biological of a straight coupling) would twist the knife even further.
Look, I don't really care if a character with few to no romantic interactions turns out to be homosexual, but randomly flipping the "gay" switch on someone with established straight preferences (especially without any buildup) is not cool with me.
Look, I don't really care if a character with few to no romantic interactions turns out to be homosexual, but randomly flipping the "gay" switch on someone with established straight preferences (especially without any buildup) is not cool with me.
On the downside, it is a version of Green Lantern that most people aren't familiar with that came out of the closet.
On the upside, he wasn't immediately re-named The Pink Flamer or anything to that effect.
Still, it won't cause anywhere near the uproar that Marvel outing Shatterstar and Richter(formerly of X-Force)caused since X-Force was at least big in the 1990s unlike that GL who had been supplanted by Hal Jordan and Jon Stewart by then.
On the upside, he wasn't immediately re-named The Pink Flamer or anything to that effect.
Still, it won't cause anywhere near the uproar that Marvel outing Shatterstar and Richter(formerly of X-Force)caused since X-Force was at least big in the 1990s unlike that GL who had been supplanted by Hal Jordan and Jon Stewart by then.
The problem with altering existing characters this way is that in doing so they cease to be the characters anymore. When it comes to comic books, most super heroes have spent a lot of time rescueing their love interest of the moment, flirting, and everything else people do. What's more we've also been looking inside the heads of these guys and girls, oftentimes quite literally with thought bubbles, and even following them home and seeing what they do when they are not acting as super heroes. As a result, taking a long running character and saying "this character is now gay" when there has been no indication of that does not work. Nor does changing a lot of these characters to other kinds of minorities, especially if the character in question has already stepped out as a member of the majority in one way or another and attempted to promote tolerance in the past... and other things. I mean we've followed Spider Man around long enough where it's not like they can just suddenly have him be black and treat it like it's still the same character, or it was always that way and we just didn't notice.
I understand the political sentiments of the left wing, but I disagree with them. It's not an EASY path to slowly intergrate minority groups into established media continuity, but to do it RIGHT and ever have it truely accepted that's what you need to do. Of course I also firmly believe that any kind of intentional intergration, affirmitive action, or political correctness is wrong. Rather things change slowly, as society does. Spread the ideas, and if they catch on for real, then the rest will slowly change to match those ideas on it's own without any kind of concentrated effort being nessicary. The very arguement about resistance making this nessicary, is why it's a bad idea, because that resistance simply means the level of tolerance hasn't arrived yet. Trying to force yourselves down other people's throats makes you as bad as those you claim to be opposing.
When it comes to things like gay rights, like it or not the nation is polarized, as is the globe. As much as one side or the other might want to think they have a clear advantage over the other all the time when it comes to numbers, that just isn't true. As a result stunts like this do nothing but make the problem worse by basically throwing oil onto a fire.
For gay rights victories in comics, people should be looking at this PR stunt a lot less, and more towards Stormwatch characters like "Apollo and The Midnighter" and similar things. It's not like there aren't any gay men as super heroes out there in the major universes, it's just that they represent a minority prescence to begin with, and this kind of intergration is a slow process. If anything the whole "Green Lantern" stunt has probably done more damage than it has good for anyone who supports that cause.
As far as comments on the representation of the "ideal family" well again, that's what things are like, and have been like for the majority of people. Up until recently the US was strongly dominated by whites in terms of sheer numbers, in recent years this has been less the case and we're seeing a situation where Latinos are going to replace whites as the numerically dominant faction in the US within a few years apparently. In general a minority realizing he is a minority is not a huge thing, and any complex he develops based on that is his own problem. It's sort of like a white guy living in Japan or another nation, and pretty much holding to say American principles, he might be tolerated but is hardly the majority or what people are going to be going out of their way to cater to. As they say "when in Rome, do as the Romans do", as a minority it's your job to try and fit in, not force the majority to conform to you.
I understand the political sentiments of the left wing, but I disagree with them. It's not an EASY path to slowly intergrate minority groups into established media continuity, but to do it RIGHT and ever have it truely accepted that's what you need to do. Of course I also firmly believe that any kind of intentional intergration, affirmitive action, or political correctness is wrong. Rather things change slowly, as society does. Spread the ideas, and if they catch on for real, then the rest will slowly change to match those ideas on it's own without any kind of concentrated effort being nessicary. The very arguement about resistance making this nessicary, is why it's a bad idea, because that resistance simply means the level of tolerance hasn't arrived yet. Trying to force yourselves down other people's throats makes you as bad as those you claim to be opposing.
When it comes to things like gay rights, like it or not the nation is polarized, as is the globe. As much as one side or the other might want to think they have a clear advantage over the other all the time when it comes to numbers, that just isn't true. As a result stunts like this do nothing but make the problem worse by basically throwing oil onto a fire.
For gay rights victories in comics, people should be looking at this PR stunt a lot less, and more towards Stormwatch characters like "Apollo and The Midnighter" and similar things. It's not like there aren't any gay men as super heroes out there in the major universes, it's just that they represent a minority prescence to begin with, and this kind of intergration is a slow process. If anything the whole "Green Lantern" stunt has probably done more damage than it has good for anyone who supports that cause.
As far as comments on the representation of the "ideal family" well again, that's what things are like, and have been like for the majority of people. Up until recently the US was strongly dominated by whites in terms of sheer numbers, in recent years this has been less the case and we're seeing a situation where Latinos are going to replace whites as the numerically dominant faction in the US within a few years apparently. In general a minority realizing he is a minority is not a huge thing, and any complex he develops based on that is his own problem. It's sort of like a white guy living in Japan or another nation, and pretty much holding to say American principles, he might be tolerated but is hardly the majority or what people are going to be going out of their way to cater to. As they say "when in Rome, do as the Romans do", as a minority it's your job to try and fit in, not force the majority to conform to you.
In terms of being less 'cheescake' then yeah the costume is an improvement....visually however its just awful to look at. Gold and white clash together really badly with nothing to break them up, her hair looks like a mullet at some angles and she just feels less fun and the crowning turd: that bloody emblem. It looks absurd and hasily added; like they designed the costume and then remembered the no boob window mandate and thought "Oh fuck, better think of a symbol".idodo35 said:actually they changed powergirls costume to be a litlle more... um practical...
new v----------------------------------------------------------------old v
improvment?
Under the Grey/Palmotti pen, Powergirl was a fun, interesting, powerful and yes, sexy superhero. Now I'm not honestly fussed they deflated her cup size, thats not why I read her (not that you'll believe me), but you know what? Under the old look, she at least had her own book. She wasn't guest starring with a version of Huntress no one seems to like, and her civilian alter ego wasn't Mr. Terrific's sexy arm candy.
So I'll keep my older PG thanks....
....and bring back Atlee, you heartless fucking bastards.
Let's see... underwhelming universe-wide reboot... maddenly convoluted effort to retain continuity... would I be going too far afield to assume Geoff Johns is part of this project somehow?
Meanwhile, a ridiculously overhyped revelation ends up demonstrating that it was actually more significant when The Pied Piper came out of the closet over twenty years earlier.
Meanwhile, a ridiculously overhyped revelation ends up demonstrating that it was actually more significant when The Pied Piper came out of the closet over twenty years earlier.
When the news broke that DC was making one of their iconic heroes gay, the last thing on my mind was one of the Green Lanterns being gay. This was because the idea of making an already existing Green Lantern suddenly gay was colossally stupid, especially since you could easily make another Green Lantern, have HIM be gay, and not annoy fans of the old character with a sudden sexuality switch that looks to have been done solely to drag in new fans.
This goes doubly so considering DC's in the middle of a reboot: the perfect time to add new characters before the system gets completely clogged with Lanterns. All DC had to do was say: hey! Look at this new dude! He's basically Bruce Wayne, but gay. And now he's a Green Lantern! After all, what does it take to be a Lantern, other than a power ring? We had like, what, six human Lanterns at one point? What's the problem with adding another one?
This goes doubly so considering DC's in the middle of a reboot: the perfect time to add new characters before the system gets completely clogged with Lanterns. All DC had to do was say: hey! Look at this new dude! He's basically Bruce Wayne, but gay. And now he's a Green Lantern! After all, what does it take to be a Lantern, other than a power ring? We had like, what, six human Lanterns at one point? What's the problem with adding another one?
Comics ARE weird. And really confusing, too. Perhaps this is why I don't read them.
Also, does anyone think that this feels more like a soap opera sort of thing?
Also, does anyone think that this feels more like a soap opera sort of thing?
Y'know, everyone got really excited about this among my comic-reading friends, and I really didn't care. Maybe it's just my personal attitude towards the entire lgtb movement, but my opinion of homosexuality has been, good for you, I'm not, don't care. When all the argument about gay marriage popped up and never seemed to pop back down I started asking all the people who would argue against gay marriage one question: what is it hurting you that other people get married? Does it invalidate your marriage knowing that someone else is married? Does it make you so uncomfortable that other people have different tastes than you? Anyone who this really bothers is clearly lacking in confidence about their own sexuality.
Now, all that being said, I can understand the groan factor in taking an established character and changing them for the sake of change. I am a white, Christian, heterosexual, American male. I've caught quite a bit of it over the years because I seem to fit into no category where I was ever a minority. Never mind the history of the Irish in this country or the early years of Christianity before the church got a little overly aggressive. Never mind that I have just as much right to be straight as anyone else has to be gay. I just sorta deal with it. Still, when it comes to sexuality, it is something of a horse of a different color.
I've gotten a great deal of arguments started for saying this, but sexuality or any type is a choice. You choose to be straight, gay, bi, or even abstain entirely. It's not something that is determined by your physical being. You can't stop being black or white, male or female, but you can choose who you are intimate with. That's not to say individuals don't have predispositions, but it is not something that it rigid. Thus it is a great deal more understandable when an established character decides to change sexuality than when a character is suddenly a different ethnicity or gender. I may cry foul when a long-beloved character has gone from white to Asian overnight, but in this case let it go. For what it's worth I think the best way DC could've done this is if they had just had him be gay and left that as that. No big marketing campaign. No whispers and guesses for a month before it's revealed. Just a comic reader picks up an issue and inside is a gay Alan Scott. The only way to make all people accepted in society is to remember that special attention, positive or negative, is still separating out people based on one factor. Treat a gay character the same way you treat a straight character, as a complex person that is more than just his/her sexuality, and watch the acceptance grow.
I'm Strormer, and that's my big fat comment.
Now, all that being said, I can understand the groan factor in taking an established character and changing them for the sake of change. I am a white, Christian, heterosexual, American male. I've caught quite a bit of it over the years because I seem to fit into no category where I was ever a minority. Never mind the history of the Irish in this country or the early years of Christianity before the church got a little overly aggressive. Never mind that I have just as much right to be straight as anyone else has to be gay. I just sorta deal with it. Still, when it comes to sexuality, it is something of a horse of a different color.
I've gotten a great deal of arguments started for saying this, but sexuality or any type is a choice. You choose to be straight, gay, bi, or even abstain entirely. It's not something that is determined by your physical being. You can't stop being black or white, male or female, but you can choose who you are intimate with. That's not to say individuals don't have predispositions, but it is not something that it rigid. Thus it is a great deal more understandable when an established character decides to change sexuality than when a character is suddenly a different ethnicity or gender. I may cry foul when a long-beloved character has gone from white to Asian overnight, but in this case let it go. For what it's worth I think the best way DC could've done this is if they had just had him be gay and left that as that. No big marketing campaign. No whispers and guesses for a month before it's revealed. Just a comic reader picks up an issue and inside is a gay Alan Scott. The only way to make all people accepted in society is to remember that special attention, positive or negative, is still separating out people based on one factor. Treat a gay character the same way you treat a straight character, as a complex person that is more than just his/her sexuality, and watch the acceptance grow.
I'm Strormer, and that's my big fat comment.
Just a quick analogy for those who don't quite grasp the whole "COMICS ARE WEIRD" continuity hijinks...
It would be like saying Batman is gay ... but ONLY George Cloony's Batman (bat-nipples, really?) but Christian Bale and all the other Batman actors were playing a straight Batman.
So yeah, when they say "Green Lantern is gay," isn't not the Ryan Reynold's character from the terrible Green Lantern movie, nor any of the other "Green Lantern" characters from that movie...
So I'll agree with Bob in that it's a baby step, but hey, it's something. Also gotta agree that having a previously straight character come out is a lot more "normal" than the race and/or other changes that transpire between comic book reboots. People come out all the time... I've never woken up one morning and suddenly switched races to look like Samuel L Jackson.
It would be like saying Batman is gay ... but ONLY George Cloony's Batman (bat-nipples, really?) but Christian Bale and all the other Batman actors were playing a straight Batman.
So yeah, when they say "Green Lantern is gay," isn't not the Ryan Reynold's character from the terrible Green Lantern movie, nor any of the other "Green Lantern" characters from that movie...
So I'll agree with Bob in that it's a baby step, but hey, it's something. Also gotta agree that having a previously straight character come out is a lot more "normal" than the race and/or other changes that transpire between comic book reboots. People come out all the time... I've never woken up one morning and suddenly switched races to look like Samuel L Jackson.
I can't shake the feeling that they picked Green Lantern because his movie bombed big time.
For the record, the movie still sucks. A gay Green Lantern wouldn't make it better.
For the record, the movie still sucks. A gay Green Lantern wouldn't make it better.
Wow another pointless ploy to cash in on Gay Pride Day.
Oreos, I'm looking RIGHT at you and I see a shameless attempt to draw in people to think that your diverse when really they treated it like a valentines day cash in.
Doesn't anyone find this pandering crap even a little bit offensive?
-Please read the next bit carefully-
I thought it was bad when Holder dragged out a bunch of gay service members and then treated them as if they had fought off racism like black service men during the 40's-60's.
***Before anyone gets all bent out of shape over my last statement please continue reading: Black service men were issued older, crappier equipment than even the USMC during those decades and they were forced to do the most dangerous assignments with no recognition. An example of that service was retrieving bodies from sunken ships at Pearl Harbor when the burning hulks were still exploding/ burning. They had it way worse than any gay service member.
A gay person, as long as they kept that information to themselves, could participate like any other soldier/sailor/airman/marine and if they were outed they were dishonorably discharged, sent home and they could go on with their lives. They weren't sent to penal battalions and they weren't used like fodder. They had standard issue everything and they were treated with the same amount of respect as everyone else.
Oreos, I'm looking RIGHT at you and I see a shameless attempt to draw in people to think that your diverse when really they treated it like a valentines day cash in.
Doesn't anyone find this pandering crap even a little bit offensive?
-Please read the next bit carefully-
I thought it was bad when Holder dragged out a bunch of gay service members and then treated them as if they had fought off racism like black service men during the 40's-60's.
***Before anyone gets all bent out of shape over my last statement please continue reading: Black service men were issued older, crappier equipment than even the USMC during those decades and they were forced to do the most dangerous assignments with no recognition. An example of that service was retrieving bodies from sunken ships at Pearl Harbor when the burning hulks were still exploding/ burning. They had it way worse than any gay service member.
A gay person, as long as they kept that information to themselves, could participate like any other soldier/sailor/airman/marine and if they were outed they were dishonorably discharged, sent home and they could go on with their lives. They weren't sent to penal battalions and they weren't used like fodder. They had standard issue everything and they were treated with the same amount of respect as everyone else.
