The Big Picture: The Toxic Avenger
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
I remember the scene where the teenagers run down and intending to kill pedestrians for fun, and once they do the deed, the driver says 'I want to do it again!' as he looks at the pictures the girls took of the mess on the road, and another guy in the back says 'I can't stay, I have to be up early for Church tomorrow'
It was one of the most disturbing scenes I have ever seen in a movie.
It was one of the most disturbing scenes I have ever seen in a movie.
I actually had one of those toys. It was the dog man mechanic. I also remember watching the movie when I was a kid and when they beat him up and dressed him in the tutu his anguished wails of sorrow moved me to tears. (i was like 5, shut up)
I had actually forgotten about Toxic Avenger. I guess I'll have to dig through my dvd mountain again.
Oh man, I used to love that cartoon! I had a doll and everything, I'm the problem! One of my favourite heroes, mostly because how disgusting he looked. All kids want a doll/action figure that looks different from the other kids.
http://www.figurerealm.com/userimages/customs/500/17-1.jpg
Never saw the movie, so I guess I should change that.
http://www.figurerealm.com/userimages/customs/500/17-1.jpg
Never saw the movie, so I guess I should change that.
Hmmm, well I don't think "The Toxic Avenger" really reflects the needs of the current period, and not because of my general anti-left wing stance (which I sort of disagree with, I see Toxie as being more anti-douchebag than anything).
Right now the country is at a point where it's polarized politically, both parties believe the have a lead, but neither really does. Elections are being won literally on a hairs breadth and no leader is really remaining all that popular for the majority of his campaign, we see a lot more extreme swings than used to happen.
I see the issue as being that there are no more little issues left to pick on, all that's left really are the big, huge issues, that previous generations of politicians decided to leave for someone else to deal with. That's a big part of why you see such an interest in creating boogiemen (far more than usual) like the violent video games contreversy, so politicians have something to go after to show that they are doing something, and they don't have to tackle the big issues that are going to piss people off, and amount to political suicide for anyone who does anything... a potential legacy as having done something positive in the long term does not help your political power right now.
I don't think either a super left wing hero, who goes against the establishment, or a conservative right wing hero who beats up out of control freaks, really represent the current issues, as we're somewhere in between that. Really, I think most people realize that not ALL rich people are inherantly bad, but there are a handfull of douchebags in there who ruin capitalism for everyone. Likewise I think everyone realizes that being a bit differant isn't nessicarly bad, but there are a lot of violent "freaks" out there like gang bangers and criminals that need to be dealt with... of course right now we've identified that problem and Law Enforcement isn't ignoring it so much as trying to find the right balance of methods to deal with it effectively without running roughshod over human rights. In short neither approach to heroism is going to appeal to the masses since one side or the other might approve but a purist message is going to slot off as many people as not.
Marvel dealt with this issue largely by doing with pure fantasy, and managed to walk a fine line with the most difficult character in the current enviroment... Iron Man, by letting him remain a billionaire, but also turning him into a peacenik who is giving up violence and weapons manufacturing, and ensuring most of his storylines are very personal as opposed to him acting as a general vigilante and potentially raising the question of some billionaire going out and beating up poor people who are getting out of line through robbing and stealing. The comic book version of Iron Man.. who was the secretary of defense for the US goverment prior to the Civil War, might not go over that well. Even before that this was the guy who actually did make the toys for groups like SHIELD and was involved in helping to build The Sentinels (one of several people) if I remember. A very three dimensional character with a lot of flaws to go with his strengths.
To be honest, I think Warren Ellis sort of started the trend that should have been followed for the current era with "The Authority". The idea being a ruthless group of super heroes who didn't pussyfoot around with the small issues, but started playing on a global scale, with the stories focusing on the repercussions of those kinds of actions. It got away with being fairly left wing, by taking place in a universe similar, but differant from our own, where their approach was fairly appropriate. Now "The Authority" itself wouldn't work for this, and the writers that came after Ellis were nowhere near as good at covering the material, but I think the basic issue of trying to deal with big issues in an absolute sense and simply muscling through the impasse is probably would could work for the current climate. Big issues require a bigger type of hero than the streetwise vigilantes that were popular through the 80s and 90s. The trick of course being to walk between the party lines as opposed to leaning one way or the other, forcing middle ground solutions so to speak, that might not bring about perfection, but leave things a bit better than they started off.
That's my thoughts at any rate.
Right now the country is at a point where it's polarized politically, both parties believe the have a lead, but neither really does. Elections are being won literally on a hairs breadth and no leader is really remaining all that popular for the majority of his campaign, we see a lot more extreme swings than used to happen.
I see the issue as being that there are no more little issues left to pick on, all that's left really are the big, huge issues, that previous generations of politicians decided to leave for someone else to deal with. That's a big part of why you see such an interest in creating boogiemen (far more than usual) like the violent video games contreversy, so politicians have something to go after to show that they are doing something, and they don't have to tackle the big issues that are going to piss people off, and amount to political suicide for anyone who does anything... a potential legacy as having done something positive in the long term does not help your political power right now.
I don't think either a super left wing hero, who goes against the establishment, or a conservative right wing hero who beats up out of control freaks, really represent the current issues, as we're somewhere in between that. Really, I think most people realize that not ALL rich people are inherantly bad, but there are a handfull of douchebags in there who ruin capitalism for everyone. Likewise I think everyone realizes that being a bit differant isn't nessicarly bad, but there are a lot of violent "freaks" out there like gang bangers and criminals that need to be dealt with... of course right now we've identified that problem and Law Enforcement isn't ignoring it so much as trying to find the right balance of methods to deal with it effectively without running roughshod over human rights. In short neither approach to heroism is going to appeal to the masses since one side or the other might approve but a purist message is going to slot off as many people as not.
Marvel dealt with this issue largely by doing with pure fantasy, and managed to walk a fine line with the most difficult character in the current enviroment... Iron Man, by letting him remain a billionaire, but also turning him into a peacenik who is giving up violence and weapons manufacturing, and ensuring most of his storylines are very personal as opposed to him acting as a general vigilante and potentially raising the question of some billionaire going out and beating up poor people who are getting out of line through robbing and stealing. The comic book version of Iron Man.. who was the secretary of defense for the US goverment prior to the Civil War, might not go over that well. Even before that this was the guy who actually did make the toys for groups like SHIELD and was involved in helping to build The Sentinels (one of several people) if I remember. A very three dimensional character with a lot of flaws to go with his strengths.
To be honest, I think Warren Ellis sort of started the trend that should have been followed for the current era with "The Authority". The idea being a ruthless group of super heroes who didn't pussyfoot around with the small issues, but started playing on a global scale, with the stories focusing on the repercussions of those kinds of actions. It got away with being fairly left wing, by taking place in a universe similar, but differant from our own, where their approach was fairly appropriate. Now "The Authority" itself wouldn't work for this, and the writers that came after Ellis were nowhere near as good at covering the material, but I think the basic issue of trying to deal with big issues in an absolute sense and simply muscling through the impasse is probably would could work for the current climate. Big issues require a bigger type of hero than the streetwise vigilantes that were popular through the 80s and 90s. The trick of course being to walk between the party lines as opposed to leaning one way or the other, forcing middle ground solutions so to speak, that might not bring about perfection, but leave things a bit better than they started off.
That's my thoughts at any rate.
Honestly when it comes to horror I think creators sold out to the point where things have become so low-end with implied violence replacing the real thing, that anything remotely over the top shocks people. You just don't find all that many horror movies designed for the jaded fans, the closest was SAW but they kind of overdid that.DTWolfwood said:speaking of The Human Centipede...i just recently watched it and i seriously thought it was going to be way more fucked up than it actually was. Everyone makes it out to be the sickest movie ever. Maybe i was just expecting a gorefest instead of a demented Doctor playing god
To find things that are really intense you have to look for stuff by groups like say August Underground (I think that's the name) and their movies, but they are relatively hard to get a hold of legitimatly and really stand out in a purely comparitive sense.
With "The Human Centipede" it's the idea that's kind of shocking, and really when you go into it knowing what your going to see due to it being spoiled a thousand times already, it loses a lot of impact.
It's sort of like the classic ending of "Sleepaway Camp" you will go "WTF" at the final scene... unless someone already told you what's coming. If you don't know what I'm talking about, you should probably watch it and you'll understand right before the final credits.
Oddly, I think the heroes for today's problems (at least the ones of a non-super variety) come from early Heinlan writings as opposed to 1984. I think what we need is a more militant goverment willing to force it's needs globally, but that's another discussion entirely.DVS BSTrD said:
In short one of the reasons why our economy is in a shambles is because of our attempts to preserve peace with China. We've let China's robber economy persist, and knock off products and innovations from the US and allied countries... thousands of them, which it produces in it's sweatshops. Rather than force them to start we've pretty much let them buy us off with "loans" while it's used the money it's made to build up it's military and start taking those loans seriously leading to the recent credit problems and so on. People are always talking about China calling us on our debt, but at the same time I think we should be being a lot more assertive about it's thefts and what it actually owes us. A recent article here on The Escapist shows their Joyland part which kind of summarizes the problem, even if it is minor in of itself. We're talking about literally thousands of products from clothing to drugs, to electronics and heavy machinery. I've gone into this in more detail on that thread, but the bottom line is that every time China steals a product it not only steals from the creator but also from the goverment. The US doesn't collect taxes, tariffs, and other things from sales, the manufacturing centers, and the pay of the workers that would be making those products... You think we owe China a lot of money, but consider that it's entire economy pretty much comes from stealing from other countries. Personally I've bene of the opinion we should get involved here militarily instead of trying to maintain the peace before their military gets much bigger (especially navally) and that ceases to even be remootely possible. Not pleasant to contemplate, but it gets to the gist of the problem.
Another is simply that we're not willing to be very aggressive in profiting from the few things we still produce. The US produces a massive amount of the world's supply of wheat, we produce so much wheat that we've had to actually pay people not to produce it. Huge portions of the world are dependant on the US for their food. China aside, it's kind of ridiculous that a nation with this kind of nessicary resource would be facing the kinds of problems we are. The issue is largely that we "won't use food as a weapon", and we basically give the stuff away in a lot of places despite the profits we generate. We've pretty much got a lot of the world by the wrinklies here, everyone knows we've got financial problems, personally I think it's time to start raising our prices and taking a "pay it or starve" attitude until we get our finances in order. It's not a nice thing to do, but we do need to keep our own house in order before we start propping up those of others.
Basically I think some of Heinlan's protaganists would be ideal for dealing with the current climate... being ruthlessly practical in a way that our current politicians are not.
Therumancer said:Honestly when it comes to horror I think creators sold out to the point where things have become so low-end with implied violence replacing the real thing, that anything remotely over the top shocks people. You just don't find all that many horror movies designed for the jaded fans, the closest was SAW but they kind of overdid that.DTWolfwood said:speaking of The Human Centipede...i just recently watched it and i seriously thought it was going to be way more fucked up than it actually was. Everyone makes it out to be the sickest movie ever. Maybe i was just expecting a gorefest instead of a demented Doctor playing god
To find things that are really intense you have to look for stuff by groups like say August Underground (I think that's the name) and their movies, but they are relatively hard to get a hold of legitimatly and really stand out in a purely comparitive sense.
With "The Human Centipede" it's the idea that's kind of shocking, and really when you go into it knowing what your going to see due to it being spoiled a thousand times already, it loses a lot of impact.
It's sort of like the classic ending of "Sleepaway Camp" you will go "WTF" at the final scene... unless someone already told you what's coming. If you don't know what I'm talking about, you should probably watch it and you'll understand right before the final credits.
I do agree that movie goers now are just more 'sensitive' to this kind of demented behavior. I don't even believe Hostel got as much water-cooler conversation time as the Human Centipede.
I remember the first time i heard of the Toxic Avenger was around the time it was made. And so far I have not been able to watch it. Not an easy film to find. Nevertheless you just renewed my will to search for it.
Thanks for this schlockopedia you have presented us with for more than a month. Pure cheap and cheesy goodness.
:-D
Thanks for this schlockopedia you have presented us with for more than a month. Pure cheap and cheesy goodness.
:-D
I'm not sure Lethal Weapon really belongs on some odd list of "OMG Teh Conservzorz Haz Stoled Our Culture" films from the 80s. For starters, boobs and explosions practically print money in any day and age, and some people just make films in order to pile up some dollars. See also: Transformers.
With specific regard to Lethal Weapon, think about the baddies in the movies. Yes, the first one was about heroin smugglers, but the undercurrent in the film is exploitation of barely-legal (if at all) girls for prostitution. The second movie was nominally about drug dealers (again?) but focused significantly on apartheid. The third movie was about gun-runners but they centered it around its impact on gang violence. The fourth movie baddies were counterfeiters but their social issue du jour was, shall we say, undocumented immigration.
Face it, guns or no guns, explosions or no explosions, the Lethal Weapon movies definitely had their eye on "social justice" topics, and don't really fit the American Dad profile at all.
With specific regard to Lethal Weapon, think about the baddies in the movies. Yes, the first one was about heroin smugglers, but the undercurrent in the film is exploitation of barely-legal (if at all) girls for prostitution. The second movie was nominally about drug dealers (again?) but focused significantly on apartheid. The third movie was about gun-runners but they centered it around its impact on gang violence. The fourth movie baddies were counterfeiters but their social issue du jour was, shall we say, undocumented immigration.
Face it, guns or no guns, explosions or no explosions, the Lethal Weapon movies definitely had their eye on "social justice" topics, and don't really fit the American Dad profile at all.
I have to say. I had not seen the Toxic Avenger until just a few weeks ago. It felt like an 80s Grindhouse-ish horror movie, but at the same time it was a lovable hilarious super-hero movie. The music was great (very punk) and the lines were cliche and quippy, but great! Do to my strong environmentalism, the message of the movie felt like something I wanted it to be. Sure I made fun of it with my friends for most of the time, but I loved the movie and can't wait to watch it again with my friends!