The Big Picture: Tropes vs. MovieBob

[jmarquiso]

Who are you to tell me whether I'm joking or not? Who made you an authority on such a thing? I am entitled to my opinion on what I find funny and what I do not.

I don't remember telling you whether you were joking or not.

You either have a short memory or incredibly poor communication skill - wait.

 

[TAdamson]

Yes you're missing out you intellectual dynamo you.

It's probably another stupid sitcom so who cares.

Who cares indeed when one welcomes to the breakfast table an individual of your intellectual majesty?

Please let us discourse while my crumpets are toasting.

 

[TAdamson]

It's probably another stupid sitcom so who cares.

Would you like a muffin?

 

[jmarquiso]

You either have a short memory or incredibly poor communication skill - wait.

Sorry, I don't remember telling you you were joking.

You told me I wasn't. You're just not witty enough to get it.

 

[TAdamson]

You either have a short memory or incredibly poor communication skill - wait.

Sorry, I don't remember telling you you were joking.

Who cares indeed when one welcomes to the breakfast table an individual of your intellectual majesty?

How's school?

Ha! Such wit! It is indeed a pleasure to have you at the table.

If only your attitude towards women were so enlightened you would be a prince among men.

 

[TAdamson]

Wow you four have really descended this conversation into childish remarks and cynical banter that actually doesn't promote any actual constructive conversation for the need to suit your own personal egos and beliefs.

I disagree. And you have no place at my table.

I wish to hear more about what PercyBoleyn says. Much the same as Blackadder enjoyed the ruminations of his own Percy at his Breakfast table.

 

[TAdamson]

Ha! Such wit! It is indeed a pleasure to have you at the table.

If only your attitude towards women were so enlightened you would be a prince among men.

Sorry I'm not sexist.

Aha! But you claim misandry as if it is equal to misogyny!

That is sexist.

 

[TAdamson]

You people and your strawmans. The reason Anita's "project" garnered this much hate in the first place isn't because the gaming community is full of sexist misogynistic pigs, like Anita and certain gaming "journalists" would have you believe, but because she asked for six thousand fucking dollars to produce a six part video series of her standing in front of a camera and talking about shit she doesn't know jack about.

The magic word here is money. She doesn't need equipment, she isn't making a feature length documentary, she's not flying in random developer Y to interview and she has zero fucking knowledge on the subject of sexism in videogames as evidenced by her "Bayonetta" critique. She got 160k to stand in front of a camera and talk, something which numerous other YouTubers in the past have been able to do without resorting to scamming their fucking audience. But you guys keep white knighting for her, I'm sure she'll eventually show a tit or something.

Ho ho ho that's brilliant.

The fact that Anita's wikipedia was vandalised with pornography, derogratory sexual language and links ponsites isn't sexist.

Give me a minute; I must digest that one.

Would you like a crumpet? They're almost done.

 

[jmarquiso]

Okay, maturity time.

Which I should say is freaking hilarious to watch due to the fact how people who are wanting to defend her have no problem being acting no different than those youtube comments taking the time to insulting people who are also sharing their opinion. Kinda hypocritical if you ask me.

As for Percy, well you do have to admit you could add a bit more into your posts but being completely reactionary and leaving the smallest of comments without actually sharing your stance isn't really promote a constructive conversation either. Great that you are asking questions but you are still since you aren't sharing your views feels like the person is having a conversation with oneself cause all they get are questions back.

SNIP

Tenmar, you are absolutely correct here, and I will only speak for myself. I saw what the conversation was turning into, and couldn't help but participate in what it became. Thank you for attempting to have a conversation here.

First -

If you disagree with her statements, that is absolutely fine. You have shown a video you disagree with and feel she hadn't done the due diligence needed to analyze the films of Zack Snyder, for example. You are correct in that she doesn't include it well. Apparently part of the issue was due to time and time does equal money. That is no excuse, so this is an absolutely valid criticism that should be brought up in the appropriate venue where established. In this case - as a comment or video response to the video. Failing that (due to comment moderation) -

Second -

On spam. People need publicity and spam their blogs/vlogs/kickstarters all of the time. It happens all the time on reddit, and in my case Linkedin and professional communities that I'm a part of. People spam their projects all the time. I've even done it. Some people get annoyed. Some people applaud it. Rules are made, mods discuss it. People deal with it in appropriate ways. SOMETIMES they handle it in inappropriate ways, but sometimes they do handle it well.

4Chan - as you say - is a highly frequented message board. Its popularity demands is part of the reason it's targeted for marketing. It is not a GOOD choice, by any means but it is one. You realize that it's here where the argument is, "but she was asking for it."

If she wasn't asking for it, she got a lot of undeserved criticism and it managed to garner sympathy.

If she WAS asking for it, well then they fell for the bait and should fee bad for themselves.

Guess what? They still sent death and rape threats, defaced her wikipedia, etc. It still happened, and there's no justification for it. What people here are doing are "well, actually, this brings to light that I disagree with her." The criticism goes to journalists who are somehow "white knighting" her, and not to the anonymous assholes who's behavior so many people "disagree with". The facts are that a) the harassment happened, and b) instead of people being angry with the harassment, they're angry with the Kickstarter. A Kickstarter for a project they could ignore, and not donate to. Only action that was needed to express disapproval was inaction.

And finally -

There is an appropriate place to discuss disagreement with her past and current work. Within that context. I disagree with X. Not - She was wrong in this video here, therefore she must be a scam artist.

I do agree that it doesn't represent gamers as a whole. The disagreement on this very board proves that.

P.S. As for proof that she spammed 4Chan or not, as shown above I don't think it's a big deal. I didn't actually see the imgur link, only heard that it's apparently been proven already. Again, don't think it's that was as important as the behavior it apparently provoked.

 

[jmarquiso]

You told me I wasn't. You're just not witty enough to get it.

I can see you're tired from whatever mentally stimulating activity you were doing. Maybe you should go to bed?

You are absolutely correct. I should stop drinking coffee so late.

 

[MrMan999]

Feminist threads are basically an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object. Nothing good comes of it.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Wow you four have really descended this conversation into childish remarks and cynical banter that actually doesn't promote any actual constructive conversation for the need to suit your own personal egos and beliefs.

You are all clearly at the state where you all should really agree to disagree and move on. Cause it is clear none of you are actually really interested in talking about the subject at hand but instead trying to one up each other in either discrediting each other or simply mocking each other as if each person you are railing against is somehow inferior.

Which I should say is freaking hilarious to watch due to the fact how people who are wanting to defend her have no problem being acting no different than those youtube comments taking the time to insulting people who are also sharing their opinion. Kinda hypocritical if you ask me.

As for Percy, well you do have to admit you could add a bit more into your posts but being completely reactionary and leaving the smallest of comments without actually sharing your stance isn't really promote a constructive conversation either. Great that you are asking questions but you are still since you aren't sharing your views feels like the person is having a conversation with oneself cause all they get are questions back.

What you all seem to miss in the big picture is to actually have an actual conversation. One that requires taking the time to ask serious questions about the subject in question when one is muddled and confused. Take the time to actually ask the question and state what you don't understand, it's not a weakness but a strength cause we are all trying to gain an understanding.

Sharing your opinion is nice but it only does any good when people can truly understand your point of view. It doesn't do anyone any good when your posts are more about espousing your views as if they were correct without actually considering the other person as a person and know that their personal life experiences are very much different from your own.

Personally, as stated before I disagree with this video project as I notice that despite her educational background there really isn't any sort of due diligence in her previous work in truly understanding the movies and games she has critiqued.

I should also note that her style of criticism is very negative and destructive rather than constructive. She has no problem calling directors like Zack Snyder a "parasite" and not actually recognize his previous work as a director, writer and produce. I didn't see her mention any of his previous works such as 300, Watchmen, Legends of the Guardians(that owl film). So her videos do reflect that she does very little research when it comes to the actual work she has published online. So I would find it hard to believe that she actually believes what she preaches cause if she actually had the opportunity to meet Zack Snyder in person that she would actually call him a "parasite" or say that and I am quoting her "To satisfy his own personal pornographic adolescent boy fantasies"(once again her words on Zack Snyder on her review of Suckerpunch). Note that the her review or critique really isn't about the movie itself but more about her personal view and opinion. That is a major problem as she isn't actually acknowledging her bias but embracing her bias.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0811583/

Another note in the relation to video games once again she demonstrates that not only does she not research them but she makes a logical leap and the one logical leap that as people who are involved with organizations like the ECA have been trying to fight for years and have recently won on the federal level with the Supreme Court case Brown V. Entertainment Merchants Association(to which I should note was spear headed by Leeland Yee a State Senator from California). The fight that we have been fighting that video games are free speech and more importantly that dissented against Leeland Yee's opinion that playing video games makes people violent.

Now how does this relate to this youtuber(sorry I am TERRIBLE with remembering youtubers names, I remember a person's name if I meet em in person but online I just can't do it well)?

She makes the same logical leap but instead of playing video games makes people violent her logical leap is that playing video games/seeing video game advertisements that depict women as sexual objects makes people want to commit sexual acts such as molesting. As her last comment in her Bayonetta video I will quote her one again that makes this logical leap and helps take away the freedoms of developers should the video game industry end up in court again. For reference her comment is how the advertisement ad in japan is the spark and encourages people to perform misogynistic acts such as physical harassment and her evidence of such is how women are being treated in japanese subway cars.

While there is action being taken to try and curb this behavior such as the women only passenger cars and the public service announcements. Right next door is this bayonetta ad that is encouraging this predatory behavior.

Now the video I am going to link here is actually a video that is a mirror link but added comments in the video that quotes the instruction booklet, the characters involved and the backstory and narrative. I'm gonna go on a limb here but I think that she hasn't really actually played Bayonetta or if she did she has either not beaten the game or didn't pay any attention to the acutal narrative she as a player should be experiencing.

I should also mention here that going back to the Brown v. EMA that if what she is saying is true and if that playing sexualized video games and participating in advertisements causes sexist behavior then it is is only a matter of time before the same link is made where playing violent video games makes people violent and that the video game industry needs to be regulated on a government level instead of actually retaining the rights of free speech. I must also add here that she completely omits or does not for the convenience of her own videos does not even talk about how most of a person's beliefs starts with how they were raised by their parents and their interactions as a child and the more direct social relationships of one's peers. We have been through this fight and have proven that usually the violent "gamer" that has a copy of Call of Duty in his game collection all of a sudden goes out on a school shooting it has been proven that he usually comes from a broken home, has bad role models or is socially ostracized by his peers.


I really don't see how people can actually agree with her views as I and others have proven that it is very clear that despite her higher education she doesn't actually perform any sort of due diligence. Nor have I seen any intellectual honesty from her mention other previous factors that could essentially result in a person who commits acts of molestation to be linked to their past.

She has been destructive in her criticisms and not actually promote any sort of constructive conversation and those who properly dissent are dismissed in favor of people who want to take the time and just be an asshole due to their anonymity.

Speaking of assholes, I should also note that it has been proven that she spammed a link to her video on 4chan the SECOND it was fully uploaded. Now I really don't see how 4chan is essentially part of the "gaming community" compared to clans like PMS/H2O, or the ECA who fight for our rights and actually active. We all know 4chan is a message board where people who partake in a WIDE variety of activities. Now imagine if your forum or message board was spammed by this link? I wouldn't take kindly to it either, the only difference is that we know that 4chan actually takes action to people who are attention whores. Which as a result basically makes 4chan the victim here as they were baited by her. So as a result we get a bunch of youtube comments that once again I completely disagree that they represent the "gaming community" as they get to go full blown troll as she was the one that spammed them first and not the other way around. If you would like the video please do not hesitate to ask and I will be more than happy to edit this video.

But the point I'm trying to make here is that if you really want to actually have a conversation don't be afraid to share your opinion, and be clear with your point of view and take the time to be patient and ask questions for clarity before responding cause you will get so much more from that than worrying about where you stand on the issue.

I don't think she is the right person for the job at all as I have noted and that her education hasn't helped her with her ability to research and given the situation that she has been doing this for so long I would estimate that she is personally either suffering from her lack of research or finds problems where there are none. We can certainly have a conversation but being destructive about tropes doesn't actually help the video game industry compared to say encouraging women to take up degrees in computer science and start them young learning computer languages like C++ but even then it really is up to each individual to decide what they really want to do.

EDIT: Added Zack Snyder's IMDB link.

If you don't know that "winning" is more important than making any kind of sense, then you clearly haven't been on these forums long. This place should come with warnings every 20 minutes like on Nintendo wii, reminding you to take breaks so that you can keep your sanity intact.

Yours is a very good post that will likely be ignored in favour of more of what this has devolved into. I'd say it was a shame, but I'm actually quite enjoying the mess. One of my favourite recurring line is "Why are you only talking about Sarkeesian? There are other examples..." That might be true, but this thread has never been about any of 'em.

Now touch gloves and come out swinging.