The Big Picture: Tropes vs. MovieBob

maximara

New member
Jul 13, 2008
237
0
0
Hallowed Lady said:
maximara said:
Hallowed Lady said:
Like it or not games can be sexist and history can prove that much. From the amount of cheesecake on show to the stereotypes used, there is defiantly a case for this. Lara Croft, Princess Peach, Other M Samus and many female characters created by Team Ninja do play into this. And it makes videogames and the people that play them look childish, which isn't always true. Point blank maybe 'gamers' need to adimt there's a case of this and not get so defensive about it, the average feminist is NOT trying to 'ruin games'.

Lara Croft and Princess Peach didn't get the cheesecake treatment until much later in their gaming careers.

As for Other M Samus, Extra Credit did a good video as to what most likely went wrong there; in a nutshell it was Too Many Cooks meets Bad Writing 101 topped off with Samus' lines being delivered by what Yahtzee described as "a voice actress who has undergone several amateur lobotomies." I think only Link got worst treatment and that was in an animated show. (Excuse me, Princess. Ugh.)
Point taken on the first bit.

The writers didn't seem to understand the main character they were working with, or any of the other characters for that matter.
But one of the writers involved was no less then Yoshio Sakamoto (one of the *creators* of Samus) "The game's story was definitely the product of Mr. Sakamoto at Nintendo. We definitely worked with them on the project, but that was all him." (G4 Media and Kotaku)

It was like what happened with Asprin and his MythAdventures series which after a nearly 10 years hiatus he returned to...and it simply didn't work. Even Conan Doyle had problems making his later Holmes stories consistent with what he had written earlier to the point that some would like to forget that things like "The Mazarin Stone" are part of the canon.

As EC said there were better ways for us to get up to speed with Samus--comm chatter would have been a vast improvement over that inane wooden monotone monologue we did get. It's worse than that Tauren (Kor'kron Primalist) in Warcraft that TotalBiscuit made a joke about.
 

Machine Man 1992

New member
Jul 4, 2011
785
0
0
DrVornoff said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
Really, if the woman was dumb enough to provoke 4chan, a wretched hive of scum and villainy devoid of any sense of conventional morality, infamous both for its boundless stupidity and endless capacity for lulz, then she reaps what she sowed.
Should the people who harassed her be let off the hook?
I never said that, but two points:

1. 4chan is a hive mind. All it takes to bring down the shitstorm is little momentum from a few determined individuals. Anonymous has no face or gender or race. It simply IS. It's less a collection of people and more a force of nature.

2. I know your going to call me out for this sounding like a rape metaphor, but she really was asking for it. This the equivalent of walking into a lion's preserve covered in meat and steak sauce and then acting surprised they attacked you. Trolling feminists is one thing anonymous loves more than bitching about furries.
 

blalien

New member
Jul 3, 2009
441
0
0
Machine Man 1992 said:
DrVornoff said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
Really, if the woman was dumb enough to provoke 4chan, a wretched hive of scum and villainy devoid of any sense of conventional morality, infamous both for its boundless stupidity and endless capacity for lulz, then she reaps what she sowed.
Should the people who harassed her be let off the hook?
I never said that, but two points:

1. 4chan is a hive mind. All it takes to bring down the shitstorm is little momentum from a few determined individuals. Anonymous has no face or gender or race. It simply IS. It's less a collection of people and more a force of nature.

2. I know your going to call me out for this sounding like a rape metaphor, but she really was asking for it. This the equivalent of walking into a lion's preserve covered in meat and steak sauce and then acting surprised they attacked you. Trolling feminists is one thing anonymous loves more than bitching about furries.
The simple fact that you're willing to devote more words to excusing away 4chan and accusing Sarkeesian of provoking them, rather than actually condemning the people who sent the rape and death threats, says a lot about you as a person. There is no context in which the words, "She was asking for it," does not make you sound inhumane. The reason the people on 4chan and Anonymous get away with shit like this is because people like you enable them.
 

Beardly

New member
Jan 19, 2010
119
0
0
jmarquiso said:
Beardly said:
TAdamson said:
I think you may have this a bit back-to-front boy. While she may have spammed 4-chan she made her target well before any controversy. Indeed she made $24,000 before the animalistic hoard descended upon her (Figuratively I mean.)

If the sexist comments of a few enabled her to leverage another $125,000, well what the bleeding hell did they expect? Sexist attacks on a feminist web-saavy blogger kickstarter? Gold!
How do you not see something wrong with goading a group of known internet misogynists so that she could stir up controversy and play the victim?
As I said earlier - if she was sincere and didn't expect the backlash, they posted terrible misogynistic comments and stirred up the controversy.

If she was baiting them and they took the bait, they posted terrible misogynistic comments and stirred up the controversy.

Either way - they posted terrible misogynistic comments and stirred up the controversy.

Misogyny still happened, and it isn't tempered by the possibility that they may have been baiting them.
I'm not arguing that the misogynistic comments weren't wrong. My point is that if she was baiting them, which seems more likely than her having no idea that 4chan was the way it is, she was doing it so that she could draw sympathetic publicity to her project by looking like a victim.

As I said earlier, what she did is like throwing a rock at a bees' nest so that people will feel bad that you got stung by bees.
 

Adahn one

New member
Jul 7, 2010
5
0
0
Yep, It is clearly unattractive women in movies, games and comics who will save the culture from degradation!
You know what, let's as a protest just will not consume the media, which shows the appeal sexy images. 'K? After all, sex and violence is so unnatural for a human been, right?
Avengers? Oh, sorry, all movies with Scarlett Johansson prohibited from now on. Sorry, too hot, can't help you.
Say no to boobs! Take for a job most ugly candidates regardless of their aptitudes! Everything to prove that you do not think by your dick! Because you constantly have to prove it, yeah.
 

Machine Man 1992

New member
Jul 4, 2011
785
0
0
blalien said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
DrVornoff said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
Really, if the woman was dumb enough to provoke 4chan, a wretched hive of scum and villainy devoid of any sense of conventional morality, infamous both for its boundless stupidity and endless capacity for lulz, then she reaps what she sowed.
Should the people who harassed her be let off the hook?
I never said that, but two points:

1. 4chan is a hive mind. All it takes to bring down the shitstorm is little momentum from a few determined individuals. Anonymous has no face or gender or race. It simply IS. It's less a collection of people and more a force of nature.

2. I know your going to call me out for this sounding like a rape metaphor, but she really was asking for it. This the equivalent of walking into a lion's preserve covered in meat and steak sauce and then acting surprised they attacked you. Trolling feminists is one thing anonymous loves more than bitching about furries.

The simple fact that you're willing to devote more words to excusing away 4chan and accusing Sarkeesian of provoking them, rather than actually condemning the people who sent the rape and death threats, says a lot about you as a person. There is no context in which the words, "She was asking for it," does not make you sound inhumane. The reason the people on 4chan and Anonymous get away with shit like this is because people like you enable them.

What do you want me to do about it? They are called anonymous for a reason! As in, they have no identity, no central leadership, nothing that I can point at and call them assholes for.

Yes, sending death threats and rape threats is the very definition of not okay, but how the fuck am I supposed to police a group that crashes corporate servers? All I'm saying is that Anons have a (relatively) coherent set of morals and triggers: posting a video of you abusing a cat will cause them to come down on you like the fist of an angry god, posting a video where you ***** about something that can easily be summarized as "15-25 year-old males are the core consumers of video games" will make them ***** right back at you. Combined with the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory, and you have the recipe for sexist shitstorms like this.

Really the argument could be made that anonymous are cowards, owing to the zebra-esque hide-amongst-endless-identical-individuals defense tactic they employ.
 

Sir Prize

New member
Dec 29, 2009
428
0
0
maximara said:
Hallowed Lady said:
maximara said:
Hallowed Lady said:
Like it or not games can be sexist and history can prove that much. From the amount of cheesecake on show to the stereotypes used, there is defiantly a case for this. Lara Croft, Princess Peach, Other M Samus and many female characters created by Team Ninja do play into this. And it makes videogames and the people that play them look childish, which isn't always true. Point blank maybe 'gamers' need to adimt there's a case of this and not get so defensive about it, the average feminist is NOT trying to 'ruin games'.

Lara Croft and Princess Peach didn't get the cheesecake treatment until much later in their gaming careers.

As for Other M Samus, Extra Credit did a good video as to what most likely went wrong there; in a nutshell it was Too Many Cooks meets Bad Writing 101 topped off with Samus' lines being delivered by what Yahtzee described as "a voice actress who has undergone several amateur lobotomies." I think only Link got worst treatment and that was in an animated show. (Excuse me, Princess. Ugh.)
Point taken on the first bit.

The writers didn't seem to understand the main character they were working with, or any of the other characters for that matter.
But one of the writers involved was no less then Yoshio Sakamoto (one of the *creators* of Samus) "The game's story was definitely the product of Mr. Sakamoto at Nintendo. We definitely worked with them on the project, but that was all him." (G4 Media and Kotaku)

It was like what happened with Asprin and his MythAdventures series which after a nearly 10 years hiatus he returned to...and it simply didn't work. Even Conan Doyle had problems making his later Holmes stories consistent with what he had written earlier to the point that some would like to forget that things like "The Mazarin Stone" are part of the canon.

As EC said there were better ways for us to get up to speed with Samus--comm chatter would have been a vast improvement over that inane wooden monotone monologue we did get. It's worse than that Tauren (Kor'kron Primalist) in Warcraft that TotalBiscuit made a joke about.
I agree with all your points here, I know that he was involved but I thought there would be more than one writer. Yoshio Sakamoto kinda screwed up with Other M and there's no good way for saying it. Maybe one of the things to would have been to have her seem less obessed with Adam (I think that was his name), and show him in a better light.
 

Ramzal

New member
Jun 24, 2011
414
0
0
Too all who say there are no strong, reasonable female figures in video games I present this:



Admit you are wrong.
 
Apr 24, 2008
3,912
0
0
blalien said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
DrVornoff said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
Really, if the woman was dumb enough to provoke 4chan, a wretched hive of scum and villainy devoid of any sense of conventional morality, infamous both for its boundless stupidity and endless capacity for lulz, then she reaps what she sowed.
Should the people who harassed her be let off the hook?
I never said that, but two points:

1. 4chan is a hive mind. All it takes to bring down the shitstorm is little momentum from a few determined individuals. Anonymous has no face or gender or race. It simply IS. It's less a collection of people and more a force of nature.

2. I know your going to call me out for this sounding like a rape metaphor, but she really was asking for it. This the equivalent of walking into a lion's preserve covered in meat and steak sauce and then acting surprised they attacked you. Trolling feminists is one thing anonymous loves more than bitching about furries.
The simple fact that you're willing to devote more words to excusing away 4chan and accusing Sarkeesian of provoking them, rather than actually condemning the people who sent the rape and death threats, says a lot about you as a person. There is no context in which the words, "She was asking for it," does not make you sound inhumane. The reason the people on 4chan and Anonymous get away with shit like this is because people like you enable them.
Lol. The FBI has trouble doing anything about these people and you're asking "Machine Man 1992" to shoulder some responsibility for them. I'd say he took that nonsense pretty well, maybe that says something about the guy.

Some things are so obviously wrong that it's more-or-less redundant to keep re-stating that they're wrong...rape and death threats certainly fall in that category, this would be an even longer and more boring thread if we all had to say it, lest we be accused of not thinking it...

I've seen her do a video about porn-ads on bit-torrent sites. She's not unfamiliar with the internet.
 

maximara

New member
Jul 13, 2008
237
0
0
Hallowed Lady said:
maximara said:
Hallowed Lady said:
maximara said:
Hallowed Lady said:
Like it or not games can be sexist and history can prove that much. From the amount of cheesecake on show to the stereotypes used, there is defiantly a case for this. Lara Croft, Princess Peach, Other M Samus and many female characters created by Team Ninja do play into this. And it makes videogames and the people that play them look childish, which isn't always true. Point blank maybe 'gamers' need to adimt there's a case of this and not get so defensive about it, the average feminist is NOT trying to 'ruin games'.

Lara Croft and Princess Peach didn't get the cheesecake treatment until much later in their gaming careers.

As for Other M Samus, Extra Credit did a good video as to what most likely went wrong there; in a nutshell it was Too Many Cooks meets Bad Writing 101 topped off with Samus' lines being delivered by what Yahtzee described as "a voice actress who has undergone several amateur lobotomies." I think only Link got worst treatment and that was in an animated show. (Excuse me, Princess. Ugh.)
Point taken on the first bit.

The writers didn't seem to understand the main character they were working with, or any of the other characters for that matter.
But one of the writers involved was no less then Yoshio Sakamoto (one of the *creators* of Samus) "The game's story was definitely the product of Mr. Sakamoto at Nintendo. We definitely worked with them on the project, but that was all him." (G4 Media and Kotaku)

It was like what happened with Asprin and his MythAdventures series which after a nearly 10 years hiatus he returned to...and it simply didn't work. Even Conan Doyle had problems making his later Holmes stories consistent with what he had written earlier to the point that some would like to forget that things like "The Mazarin Stone" are part of the canon.

As EC said there were better ways for us to get up to speed with Samus--comm chatter would have been a vast improvement over that inane wooden monotone monologue we did get. It's worse than that Tauren (Kor'kron Primalist) in Warcraft that TotalBiscuit made a joke about.
I agree with all your points here, I know that he was involved but I thought there would be more than one writer. Yoshio Sakamoto kinda screwed up with Other M and there's no good way for saying it. Maybe one of the things to would have been to have her seem less obessed with Adam (I think that was his name), and show him in a better light.
To be fair to Yoshio Sakamoto as the EC video ("Learning from Other M") shows you also had the political pressures of Teen Ninja, D-Rocket, and Nintendo in the mix. So you have the "Bad Writing" situation of Yoshio Sakamoto having to write around whatever those three had planned for the game.

Then there is the fun issue of game mechanics butting heads with the writing. Sometimes as in WoW it can result in bizarre and sometimes silly situations--if you have ever taken a Worgen through Grizzly Hills you know what I mean. But in Other M this clash was a disaster and the lack of any comm chatter made this already bad situation worse. Instead of the strong independent Samus everyone was expecting we got a woman with seemingly nearly as many (though different) psychological hangups as Sylvanas Windrunner.
 

Hugga_Bear

New member
May 13, 2010
532
0
0
Nope.
Bob seriously underestimates the importance of looks. As someone who's been ripped and fat I can tell you the difference is disgusting. I'm a man and when I was fatter than Mario I was easily and readily dismissed many times for many things, little things. Dumb things. Being slimmer/better looking makes an obscene difference and a prettier person will do better, male or female. Dismissing that so out of hand was ridiculous of Bob.

However he's on the money at the end and I think that's the big issue, both portrayals are fantasies but both are male fantasies, empowerment or sexualisation. Those are the offers on the table for guys.
That does need to be addressed and I think we're getting there.
 

JambalayaBob

New member
Dec 11, 2010
109
0
0
I know this stuff has already been said plenty in the hundreds of comments here, but I think I'll kinda consolidate a few things that people really need to think about here. First of all, Anita Sarkeesian would not be wrong for raising money for a series that aimed to address certain issues of sexism in video games and explore how these problems can be rectified. The problem is, she doesn't do that. All she does is promote the idea that feminists are all angry bitches that hate everything involving men or any implications that men and women are different, which is something that very much gets in the way of civil rights discussion. In essence, she's turning herself into a walking cliche more than constructively talking about female video game tropes, ironically.

Second of all, her entire reason for doing all of this is very obvious. It's very very clear that all she's doing is exploiting her own idiotic opinions, as well as the droves of people that are apologetic towards the previously-mentioned stereotypical feminists that do more to promote feminine dominance than equality of any kind. She's been making videos for quite some time, and her production value will almost certainly not improve now that she's asking for money to do something that she previously did for free. She already had a FRIGGEN STUDIO SETUP with an HD camera! You cannot tell me that she didn't have money, and I seriously can't even begin to understand what she needed $6,000 dollars for anyways. Also, she already has 6 videos in the Tropes VS Women series, with the first one being from March 22, 2011 (and it is bad).

Overall, Sarkeesian is just exploiting the internet, her dumb opinions, and her sexuality to make a quick buck by doing something that hundreds of people have been doing without asking for any money for years now. People that professionally talk into a camera generally aren't asking for large sums of money to increase the "production value" that hasn't been clearly defined as anything specific (eg. lights, better camera, hiring crew members), without offering anything in return.
 

PhiMed

New member
Nov 26, 2008
1,483
0
0
PercyBoleyn said:
PhiMed said:
And yes, class privilege was predominant early in our society. Nobody is saying that class, race, health, even beauty privilege don't exist, and they have existed for centuries.
It's still predominant. Class privilege has existed since the dawn of society.

PhiMed said:
But as bad as it was to be a poor serf man living at the whim of his feudal lord, it was WORSE to be a poor serf woman
It was? How so? The serf had to do an excruciating ammount of work every day and then go die in whatever war his liege started.

PhiMed said:
And just as it's bad to be a short, gay, poor black man with a limp today, a short, gay, poor black woman with a limp is even more disadvantaged. It's how it all intersects.
A short, gay, poor black woman with a limp would have been just as disadvantaged as a short, gay, poor black man with a limp.

PhiMed said:
And nobody has made any videos about the masculine issues yet. I'm just saying, there is a right way to go about doing a set of videos that is a COMPLEMENT and not trying to silence Sarkeesian, and then there is the douchebag misogynist way.
So basically, they video makers either glorify her or they're misogynistic pigs. How does that work exactly?


PhiMed said:
It's cute that you think that I feel guilty about anything. Somebody doesn't understand privilege.
Men are not priviledged. In fact, women are more priviledged than us in every single way. A white woman born to a middle class family has much more chances to succeed in life than a white male born in the same family. A white woman on the streets has more chances of surviving than a white male on the streets.

In the past it was fairly similar. Go back a hundred years and women generally spent their time taking care of kids and doing household work whilst men were forced to work agonizing hours under the scorching son for hours on end. Men fought for women, hell entire wars were started over them. Imagine how many men died just for that. A woman could advance her social position by marrying a lord, a male could not advance his social position by marrying a lady.

Both genders had it bad and both genders had it good in one way or another. Both genders were subjugated by gender roles and it's only recently that females have managed to break free of it whilst males have remained trapped. Saying that men had it worse than women is simply wrong.
Please edit your post. You've edited me into multiple quotes that are not mine.
 

PhiMed

New member
Nov 26, 2008
1,483
0
0
DrVornoff said:
PhiMed said:
When she didn't get the desired reaction IMMEDIATELY, she spammed /b/ so that she could drum up the trolls.
Do you have proof of that?
Multiple screen shots of spammed requests asking for views, yes. It is, of course, anonymous, as you know, so it would take computer skills beyond mine to search the archives for ips to prove it definitively.
 
Apr 24, 2008
3,912
0
0
DrVornoff said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
1. 4chan is a hive mind. All it takes to bring down the shitstorm is little momentum from a few determined individuals. Anonymous has no face or gender or race. It simply IS. It's less a collection of people and more a force of nature.
Doesn't mean it should be excused.

2. I know your going to call me out for this sounding like a rape metaphor, but she really was asking for it. This the equivalent of walking into a lion's preserve covered in meat and steak sauce and then acting surprised they attacked you. Trolling feminists is one thing anonymous loves more than bitching about furries.
Yeah, but if the guy survives the lions long enough for help to arrive, he's still taken to the hospital.
He's not excusing it. He's only saying that a known quantity is a known quantity.

This is becoming beyond ridiculous.
 

LadyRhian

New member
May 13, 2010
1,246
0
0
maximara said:
Hallowed Lady said:
Like it or not games can be sexist and history can prove that much. From the amount of cheesecake on show to the stereotypes used, there is defiantly a case for this. Lara Croft, Princess Peach, Other M Samus and many female characters created by Team Ninja do play into this. And it makes videogames and the people that play them look childish, which isn't always true. Point blank maybe 'gamers' need to adimt there's a case of this and not get so defensive about it, the average feminist is NOT trying to 'ruin games'.

Lara Croft and Princess Peach didn't get the cheesecake treatment until much later in their gaming careers.

As for Other M Samus, Extra Credit did a good video as to what most likely went wrong there; in a nutshell it was Too Many Cooks meets Bad Writing 101 topped off with Samus' lines being delivered by what Yahtzee described as "a voice actress who has undergone several amateur lobotomies." I think only Link got worst treatment and that was in an animated show. (Excuse me, Princess. Ugh.)
I just gotta say here, I remember an advertisement for one of the Lara Croft games (2, I think) in which it was heavily advertised "Lara gets more outfits this time!" I really don't recall that being a selling point for male characters in any game I can remember. It was like "Lara Croft Barbie"! Look, her clothes change!
 

LadyRhian

New member
May 13, 2010
1,246
0
0
Ramzal said:
Too all who say there are no strong, reasonable female figures in video games I present this:



Admit you are wrong.
We (and Anita Sarkeesian) aren't saying there aren't any. We're saying there aren't enough of them.
 

maximara

New member
Jul 13, 2008
237
0
0
LadyRhian said:
maximara said:
Hallowed Lady said:
Like it or not games can be sexist and history can prove that much. From the amount of cheesecake on show to the stereotypes used, there is defiantly a case for this. Lara Croft, Princess Peach, Other M Samus and many female characters created by Team Ninja do play into this. And it makes videogames and the people that play them look childish, which isn't always true. Point blank maybe 'gamers' need to adimt there's a case of this and not get so defensive about it, the average feminist is NOT trying to 'ruin games'.

Lara Croft and Princess Peach didn't get the cheesecake treatment until much later in their gaming careers.

As for Other M Samus, Extra Credit did a good video as to what most likely went wrong there; in a nutshell it was Too Many Cooks meets Bad Writing 101 topped off with Samus' lines being delivered by what Yahtzee described as "a voice actress who has undergone several amateur lobotomies." I think only Link got worst treatment and that was in an animated show. (Excuse me, Princess. Ugh.)
I just gotta say here, I remember an advertisement for one of the Lara Croft games (2, I think) in which it was heavily advertised "Lara gets more outfits this time!" I really don't recall that being a selling point for male characters in any game I can remember. It was like "Lara Croft Barbie"! Look, her clothes change!
Sounds like _Lara Croft: Tomb Raider - The Angel of Darkness_ a point Yahtzee said the series "died". The second game was likely the sequel _Tomb Raider: Legend_ which was made by a different team.

It must be remembered that the original team had tried the end the series ala Conan Doyle by killing off their creation but they quickly came under pressure to bring her back. We got the prequel "Hound of the Baskervilles" treatment in _Tomb Raider Chronicles_ followed by the above Angel of Darkness and we can see where that went.

So was this the fault of the developers who knew if they continued Lara would degenerate into cheesecake or the fans for demanding the character be effectively driven into the ground?
 

jmarquiso

New member
Nov 21, 2009
513
0
0
Beardly said:
As I said earlier, what she did is like throwing a rock at a bees' nest so that people will feel bad that you got stung by bees.
Again, whether she did it or not, it still happened, and that is a problem.

She may share some responsibility in the whole ordeal, sure. However, that's not the problem. When it happened, what did people do about it? They excused them. "That's 4Chan" "I'm tired of this topic." "Why does she need so much money?" What could they have done? "You know what, that's not okay." Those that have done that are accused of being white knights.

In a free society we need views we disagree with. Yes, even misogynist views. I think we are perfectly allowed to do so. The place for criticizing the ideas is after the product is created, not from an intro video - you know like people have been doing with her Bayonetta video. Dissecting these existing videos is perfectly acceptable. I may disagree with their analysis, or may even disagree with her video, but you know what? There are thousands of youtube channels and podcasts I can listen too. When I disagree with something and feel compelled to talk about it, I do my best to write them in a way that's not abusive and make my point. I may fail at some point, but you win some and you lose some.

My own criticism of her videos so far is that they take ideas further than reality, and is dismissive and snarky - something she shares with the rhetoric of the genre of "youtube vlog". I want to shout to the screen, "drop the sarcasm and snark, you're an academic, educate!" In other words, she goes about her work in a way I don't like, but it obviously attracts an audience. So yes, I disagree with her on many points, too. I also agree with her in others. I'm not going to change her wiki page to express that.

Some brought up Extra Credits, Zero Punctuation, and the Game Overthinker himself - all of which have been paid or eventually been paid by an entity. Some began free, and were picked up eventually. Extra Credits even ran a crowdfunded fundraiser of their own.

As for "exploiting her opinions", well, that's how Kickstarter works. People provide a project that other people want to see, and they donate money - no - they "invest" money in exchange for various products and services that represent their contribution. Or do you not believe people should give to a product that they value? You basically said - "She's exploiting the people who want what she's selling."

Me, I'm not a contributor to her project. I do contribute to ideas I like or products I want to see the light of day.

There are so many projects on Kickstarter I don't like, are beating dead horses, and have opinions I really dislike. When the product is finished I would probably do a point by point blog post dissecting why it's bad, or finding out that I may even agree. I'll give them that chance.

1) Misogyny happened through harassment, threats, and the like. If that's not okay, express disgust at that.

2) You disagree with her points, fine. IN an article discussing her views OVER an article discussing the response is a more appropriate place to talk about it. MovieBob says himself - IN THIS VIDEO - that he watched her videos and there are some points he may take issue with.

3) While I may sound like I'm advocating restricting free speech, I'm talking about the best way to handle it. To make her views the issue over the harassment - in a thread about the harassment - may make it sound like you're defending the harassment.