The Big Picture: Untransformed

Warforger

New member
Apr 24, 2010
641
0
0
Ok great, if you don't like it then stop watching them, it's not like the Transformers movie from the 80's or the cartoons are going anywhere. Although when I saw them I thought they were ok (I don't think Megan Fox is hot so that was just generic to me) but now re-watching them I don't remember anything from them, the story seemed to be short while going in all of actuality forever because it was broken up by some cheap humor, while not great not horrible just shit teenagers do when they can't come up with any conversation. Although now watching them again I admit they're terrible and I got pretty bored after a 5 minutes.

Casual Shinji said:
Way to contradict yourself... again. *points to The Phantom Menace episode*

Oh, and nice one on insulting the fans of these movies... again.

Seriously, Bob; Grow up.
Honestly I thought he was merely reinforcing it, he didn't say that Episode 2 and 3 were good in that review, just that episode 1 was ok and not as bad. Although insulting an entire group of people because they do something for fun that you don't like I agree is retarded, "herp ok I guess my PhD degree means nothing and that I am a retard because I like Transformers", what you like for entertainment is totally unrelated to how smart you are really.
 

uhohimdead

New member
Apr 24, 2011
34
0
0
?The intelligence of that creature known as a crowd is the square root of the number of people in it.?
― Terry Pratchett, Jingo
 

Nigh Invulnerable

New member
Jan 5, 2009
2,500
0
0
Casual Shinji said:
Way to contradict yourself... again. *points to The Phantom Menace episode*

Oh, and nice one on insulting the fans of these movies... again.

Seriously, Bob; Grow up.
I second this motion. I'm so tired of Bob's whining about movies he doesn't like. Hey, Bob, if you think the movie is dumb, just say so and then shut up about it, but don't be surprised if someone likes it anyway. Too many of his positive reviews (especially when he raves about something) have lead to disappointment when the movie is just average (I'm looking at you, Scott Pilgrim). I'm sure I'll catch flak from fanboys for that one.
 

girzwald

New member
Nov 16, 2011
218
0
0
SpiderJerusalem said:
Oh great, another Bob rant about how Transformers fans are stupid, idiotic drooling morons and how he is the lone voice of smart reason.

Ugh, really, Escapist, you're actually paying him for writing these self-congratulatory, masturbation pieces that he's ALREADY DONE, not once, not even twice, but three times now!

With all your money troubles and such, you'd think that there would be better places and better people to spend the last few schillings on. Hell, I could point out people here on the forums and the commentators on these sections that would be less biased, more accurate and certainly a hell of a lot less judgmental, offensive and downright lazy than Bob.


And THAT'S the big picture.
Burn.
 

Hiroshi Mishima

New member
Sep 25, 2008
407
0
0
CronoT said:
Bob, I just had a realization. Remember how foreign films critics AT THE TIME were always harping on the low budget and stilted acting of the Godzilla films from Toho? Those are considered classics of the film genre now.
Funny, growing up with Godzilla films I never thought they were bad movies. Japan's way of making movies differs from American ways of making movies. In fact, many Japanese movies still, insofar as I know, use people in suits for monster films while the US insists on lackluster CGI with no presence. At least when you saw Godzilla, you knew he was actually there and not something cooked up on a computer over the weekend.


Anyways, I really have tried hard to pretend the second Transformers movie didn't exist. The first one was okay-ish, but largely disappointing. The only one that I felt was any good was the third one, and that may have been due to Leonard Nimoy being in it.

Oh, and 370999.. please don't get me started on how much I hate people making a fuss about how sexy an actress is while stating their opposition to misogyny, please don't. I have enough issue with that in the game industry. :p


NortherWolf said:
G1 had Spike, Chip, Daniel and Carly.
The Unicron Trilogy had some of the most horrible humans ever.
The old comics had Spike, Daniel, G.B Blackrock etc.
Transformers Animated had Sari.
Transformers Prime had those three brats who's death cannot come soon enough.

Transformers has basically never been about robots fighting. The only ones who half-arsedly tried to give that to us fans were Dreamwave and IDW. then McCarthy ruined that part about IDW too.
You want to know why? Even if you and me would love to see the war solely from the Transformer's perspective, that won't sell to the broad masses who are needed to make the movie earn a profit.
I learned this a long time ago when I prayed for the next Transformers cartoon to be like The War Within.
Then again, Transformers: Prime is damn good.
I think you're missing something, to be honest. Either you clearly didn't actually watch more than maybe a couple episodes of the shows you're talking about, or you really don't like kids and/or Humans at all. Well, it could also be that you just don't like the old material, since the one example you said was good was one of the most recent series.

The thing with the Transformers movies isn't that they HAD people, but that they had uninteresting people that often took center stage while the robots did their thing in the background. At least in the first two movies, it wasn't so bad in Dark of the Moon. You claim that Transformers was never about robots fighting, and yet that's what made up many of the cartoons. While Chip, Carly, and others certainly showed up from time to time, their roles were often backdrops to what was going on. Hell, the episode "Autobot Spike" had his brain put into an empty robot body and he goes crazy and we get lots of "robots fighting", so again I can't really see your point.

If the old show had something going against it, it would have been the lack of a consistent overarching storyline, but since this was the 80's and that was rarely done in those days, it just didn't happen with stuff like GI Joe, Thundar, and Voltron. The overall plots might move along after a while, but most of the episodes were still pretty standalone.

And honestly, the character of Sam and the others in the movies would've been better if they'd been better written. Trying to throw in cheap laughs that don't flow naturally, romantic subplots that weren't really necessary, AND low-brow sex-appeal (in a movie about robots) is really a large part of what undermined the movies' appeal.
 

minuialear

New member
Jun 15, 2010
237
0
0
Nigh Invulnerable said:
Casual Shinji said:
Way to contradict yourself... again. *points to The Phantom Menace episode*

Oh, and nice one on insulting the fans of these movies... again.

Seriously, Bob; Grow up.
I second this motion. I'm so tired of Bob's whining about movies he doesn't like. Hey, Bob, if you think the movie is dumb, just say so and then shut up about it, but don't be surprised if someone likes it anyway. Too many of his positive reviews (especially when he raves about something) have lead to disappointment when the movie is just average (I'm looking at you, Scott Pilgrim). I'm sure I'll catch flak from fanboys for that one.
Re: his positive reviews about a lot of movies (Suckerpunch, Scott Pilgrim, etc):

Marasai said:
Nerds tend to have a kind of elitism about ourselves where we like to think we know better, and are better than regular people. See the level of complaint any time a nerd property is about to become mainstream. A freind actually said he was mad that Michael Bay was going to ruin TMNT. I had to explain to him that is impossible because TMNT was already incredibly stupid. But he was having none of it.

IN short, nerds don't like to think that we turn our brains off to enjoy things, so EVERYTHING has to be about something grander so the narrative we've constructed still frames us as the intellectual hero.

So someone who enjoys something he KNOWS to be bad, has to come up with some elaborate excuse. for why it is actually incredibly complex and the rest of them just 'don't get it'.
(comment found here: http://io9.com/5785590/)
 

Nigh Invulnerable

New member
Jan 5, 2009
2,500
0
0
minuialear said:
Nigh Invulnerable said:
Casual Shinji said:
Way to contradict yourself... again. *points to The Phantom Menace episode*

Oh, and nice one on insulting the fans of these movies... again.

Seriously, Bob; Grow up.
I second this motion. I'm so tired of Bob's whining about movies he doesn't like. Hey, Bob, if you think the movie is dumb, just say so and then shut up about it, but don't be surprised if someone likes it anyway. Too many of his positive reviews (especially when he raves about something) have lead to disappointment when the movie is just average (I'm looking at you, Scott Pilgrim). I'm sure I'll catch flak from fanboys for that one.
Re: his positive reviews about a lot of movies (Suckerpunch, Scott Pilgrim, etc):

Marasai said:
Nerds tend to have a kind of elitism about ourselves where we like to think we know better, and are better than regular people. See the level of complaint any time a nerd property is about to become mainstream. A freind actually said he was mad that Michael Bay was going to ruin TMNT. I had to explain to him that is impossible because TMNT was already incredibly stupid. But he was having none of it.

IN short, nerds don't like to think that we turn our brains off to enjoy things, so EVERYTHING has to be about something grander so the narrative we've constructed still frames us as the intellectual hero.

So someone who enjoys something he KNOWS to be bad, has to come up with some elaborate excuse. for why it is actually incredibly complex and the rest of them just 'don't get it'.
(comment found here: http://io9.com/5785590/)
Interesting response and link. I think this basically hits the nail on the head. People, in general, who are into something that is a little "underground" like to think it caters to their specific taste and always will, but then go berserk when it gets adapted and changed in a slight way they dislike. My own example would be the Hitchhiker's guide movie. Each version, tv, books, and radio, have been different from the others. Partly due to Douglas Adams desire to mess with people and partly because different mediums do things in distinct ways.

Bob seems to have problems with accepting the differences in mediums when a given IP changes and evolves. My thought is simply that if someone doesn't enjoy the newer version, just watch/read what you do enjoy.
 

LordFisheh

New member
Dec 31, 2008
478
0
0
Honestly, there will always be fun, bad films. Yeah it's a shame for Transformers fans that their franchise got cannibalised to make some, but is it really that big a deal? You wouldn't only read highbrow philosophical literature or only eat gourmet food. I think the apoplectic level of hate for Bay's films is far to high for what they really are. They're trashy action, not Nazi kitten hunting propaganda.
 

Dragonforce525

New member
Sep 13, 2009
338
0
0
I am a proud member of the "Will Never Pay To See A Michael Bay Transformers Movie" I watched the first round a friends house, fucking hated it, the second looked like more of the same, I'll let you guess how that panned out, and the third looked like Shia Lebeofffffeff got fucked by the army and had an American Flag shitting propaganda baby.

Keep Bay away, as well as 90% of the human characters and my arse will be in that seat.
 

CK76

New member
Sep 25, 2009
1,620
0
0
It is curious how Bob flips the switch from whiny entitled fanboy to elitist "calm down whiny entitled fanboys" rhetoric from video to video.

The point is simple, we get emotionally invested in something and if someone takes that from us and changes it we generally do not care for it (see: The book was much better argument ANY time a film is made).

I get where people come from, my younger years were peppered with the disappointment of Godzilla, Batman, Spider-Man, Phantom Menace, Transformers, etc. where existing properties were translated (in my view) poorly.

So, I was thrilled when Batman got another shot with Nolan and I enjoyed it, and I have hopes that Spider-Man might finally get a film about that character I enjoy. If not? Oh well. I, like many others, have lives filled with more things than if our beloved characters are mismanaged "ruins" us. I think perspective is often needed whenever we find ourselves declaring the decline of humanity or civilization based on a film.
 

LordXel

New member
Sep 25, 2010
190
0
0
While I liked the first and third Transformers films, I don't think we need another one. I have no idea where the movies can go from this point forward. How would you reboot it anyway this quickly? But there were discussions made about producing a theatrical movie based on Transformers Prime, I would pay to see that shit more than once! And Bob, I would just like to reccommend a few things here. If you really want to get your fill of better Transformers material, there are good Transformers cartoons out there aside from G1. (Or the original cartoon as you refer it to as)

How about Beast Wars? Yeah yeah, we've heard of how Transformers shouldn't be animals and we've heard the counter arguement to that, but seriously give Beast Wars a chance if you haven't. It has well developed characters, an amazing story that connects to G1 perfectly, and its not just for kids. It felt like Star Trek for some odd reason.

Transformers Animated is also very good. Yes, I was amoung the many who hated the new designs, but when you get past that, it has so much heart and soul put into it. It is also not just for kids, there are countless references to G1 in it, so much so it becomes fanservice.

Transformers Prime. Okay, even though I like 2 thirds of the movies, I still think that this is how the movies should be. Seriously, check this one out. The human characters do take some time to get used to but they don't constantly steal the attention and they do things other than scream and make stupid jokes. That and the Transformers are well developed, the animation is very good, and theres stories in it other than BOOM BOOM BOOM! That and the music is just fucking fantastic!

I would say that personally, I prefer this lot over G1. I love G1, it has likeable characters, it is very entertaining and it had a good movie, but theres so much about it thats so stupid compared to the rest.

As for the other Transformers cartoons, well Beast Machines isn't as good as Beast Wars but I thought it was okay, I don't care for the animes however. But seriously Bob, if you really hate these movies, which is fine, you'll find the three cartoons that I recommended to be such a delight. You'll properly never read this, but seriously, you'll be missing out on a lot of great stuff if you don't see Beast Wars, Animated or Prime.
 

NortherWolf

New member
Jun 26, 2008
235
0
0
Hiroshi Mishima said:
CronoT said:
I think you're missing something, to be honest. Either you clearly didn't actually watch more than maybe a couple episodes of the shows you're talking about, or you really don't like kids and/or Humans at all. Well, it could also be that you just don't like the old material, since the one example you said was good was one of the most recent series.

The thing with the Transformers movies isn't that they HAD people, but that they had uninteresting people that often took center stage while the robots did their thing in the background. At least in the first two movies, it wasn't so bad in Dark of the Moon. You claim that Transformers was never about robots fighting, and yet that's what made up many of the cartoons. While Chip, Carly, and others certainly showed up from time to time, their roles were often backdrops to what was going on. Hell, the episode "Autobot Spike" had his brain put into an empty robot body and he goes crazy and we get lots of "robots fighting", so again I can't really see your point.

If the old show had something going against it, it would have been the lack of a consistent overarching storyline, but since this was the 80's and that was rarely done in those days, it just didn't happen with stuff like GI Joe, Thundar, and Voltron. The overall plots might move along after a while, but most of the episodes were still pretty standalone.

And honestly, the character of Sam and the others in the movies would've been better if they'd been better written. Trying to throw in cheap laughs that don't flow naturally, romantic subplots that weren't really necessary, AND low-brow sex-appeal (in a movie about robots) is really a large part of what undermined the movies' appeal.
I've seen every episode of the shows I listed except Prime*shrugs*I've read every comic and own most of them.
And of course I hate the humans in the shows; they're horrible written annoyances. Which is why I didn't mind the humans in the live-action movies that much. They were all over the place, sure, but they were mostly tolerable. (Okay, except for Leo and Sam).
And my view of the old material is split. I understand the importance of it to me since it got me hooked to Transformers, but it's horribly dated. My Season 1 Transformers G1 DVD rots in the shelf because I can't watch it, even with Cullen and Welker.
Now, as for the fourth movie...DO I want one? Hell yes. Do I want it to be Bay's movie? No, absolutely not. Do I still think MovieBob is a pretentious prick? Oh, absolutely.
 

jack583

New member
Oct 26, 2010
301
0
0
marurder said:
Incidently, Transformers 3 was THE biggest movie in China last year. And most of them saw it dubbed into Chinese, so dialogue really isn't that important when making money. (watch any movie dubbed into Chinese it sounds AWFUL - bad lip sync, and voices don't fit any actor or situation at all)

jack583 said:
here's a tip for mr bay:
KEEP...
HUMANS...
OUT OF IT......
But how to make it relate-able to the masses!??!
i wasn't saying that the problem was the dialog, the problem was that bay focused on the humans, and practically just threw the robots into the background.

did they go into much detail about the struggles of war between the autobots and decepticons?
not really
it was just " we are good! they are bad! both sides need shiny thing!"
and you don't need humans to have someone the audiance can relate to

example: Wall-e
wall-e just works a dead-end job, but it gives his life some purpose and he's thankfull to have it. he just get's up each morning and goes out to do his job. it's hard, yes; it's thankless, yes; but he doesn't complain, he just does what needs to be done.
i, for one, can relate to this character
anyone that has ever had to work for just enough to get by can relate to this character
and it took 0 dialogue to do it

bay could go into cybertrons history, and show what lead to the war.
THAT is something people would like.
 

bpricems

New member
Sep 18, 2010
12
0
0
Transformers is incredibly dumb-down to reach a mass audience. Kind of like the Twilight series (books, not movies...well, maybe movies too) reading level is incredibly low. Lesson learned - Don't scare away potential customers with anything enlightening or intelligent.
 

android88

New member
Jul 21, 2011
105
0
0
There was a bad Lord of the Rings film. It was done by Warner Bros. and it was animated. And it sucked. I watched it at around the same time the first Peter Jackson film version came out and it's not even in the same league.