The Big Picture: With Great Power

Axolotl

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Feb 17, 2008
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Goliath100 said:
Axolotl said:
Jennacide said:
We deserved a better voice for the issues of sexual objectification of women in games and the over-use of certain tropes in games, while commenting on why it has become that way and when it's sometimes acceptable.
Well it doesn't really matter if you "deserved" someone better, Anita is the only one so far willing to invest the time and money so for that she's the face of feminism in video games. You don't have to like it but you pretty much need to accept that it's just the way things are.
No we don't. We don't need to accept anything because they "are". If so, change will never come. We can fight, win over their mind one by one. By logic and well made argument. So you can see why it's sad that Sarkeesian, a real straw feminist in her own right, is the "face of feminism" in video games.
You certainly could fight. But you won't will? You'll just ***** and whine and moan about how the prominent voices in the gamer culture aren't saying what you wish they were saying.

Or perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps you're running your own kick-starter for a more reasonable feminist critique of the current state gaming.
 

Weaver

Overcaffeinated
Apr 28, 2008
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Subconsciously, I at least think if a person looks like they have the choice to have lots of sex, they probably aren't a nerd. Is that fair? No. But neither is being born attractive. At least let the nerds have something.
 

TheFinalFantasyWolf

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Dec 23, 2010
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Monxeroth said:
Like bob says: Sexism, Racism and other type of toxic behaviour is one of those things we have to take a stand against now that we hold the talking pillow (for anyone who gets that ref, check me up on steam for a free copy of bioshock infinite).
1. Was that a Breaking Bad reference?

2. Is that offer serious or am I being punk'd again.

OT: Good episode today.

Although I get a bad feeling that there are people that just roll their eyes now whenever there is mention of something negative within "geek culture". :/
 

Farther than stars

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Jun 19, 2011
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Eh, what can I say? Power corrupts. The first and hardest step is to beware of the corruption yourself and try to combat it.

teebeeohh said:
would bob have used wounded knee as an example without bioshock infinite?
Ayn Rand says 'no', but consciousness is a philosophical concept and therefor inherently subject to personal beliefs.

Machine Man 1992 said:
Those "homophobic, sexist, trolls" you rail against are just that-- trolls. They aren't going away, ever, no matter how much mainstreaming is done.

So man the fuck up and deal with it.
That is a terrible reason not to combat homophobia and sexism. Simply not being able to entirely eradicate a problem doesn't mean that you shouldn't try. Otherwise we might as well give up on trying to police criminals because 'oh well, there's always going to be another murderer anyway'. No, you try to diminish their numbers as much as possible. Looking the other way isn't 'manning up'; in fact, it's the exact opposite of manning up: it's cowardice. There's no logical or moral reason not to oppose discrimination.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Dead Century said:
Can't people just enjoy a video game, comic book, movie, board game, D&D, etc? Yes. Yes, they can.
Sure they can. You know what'd make it easier? If we didn't have thousands or millions of people harassing people like hateful little man-children. This would seem especially poignant considering the concept of pointing out that nerd culture feels unfairly maligned themselves.

It's not a political message. And speaking of....

Mr. Omega said:
Ok, I'm just curious, but maybe one of you two can answer me.

When the fuck did "Don't be an asshole" and "Consider other people" become exclusively liberal positions as opposed to generally good advice?
Have you seen conservative campaigning lately? "don't be a dick" is pretty much the antithesis of modern American conservatism.

When? Well, when did Fox start their branding campaign? Mid-nineties?

Accusations of anything that disagrees with your being political are the cornerstone of said empire.

xaszatm said:
Wow...Thank you internet. You are trying to prove to the world the every negative stereotype we have is not just true, but that we are proud of it. This has to be the most depressing comment list I have ever seen...
The internet rushes to both deny that there's an issue and to display a belligerent attitude that demonstrates it. Must be Tuesday.
 

DerangedHobo

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Jan 11, 2012
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jmarquiso said:
DerangedHobo said:
So much this, I don't like women in my online games because it's just like being in a public place...
Because you are?
A public place, I.e. 'the real world' were general social rules apply where I can't make dead baby jokes without looking like a sociopath and being beaten with sticks, those 'public places'.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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The-Bas said:
"User received a warning for this post."

Jebus kwaist the moderators are horrible on this website.
It violates two of the rules of the site. I don't get why that makes the moderators "horrible." They are enforcing rules we all agreed to when we signed up.
 

Stalydan

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Mar 18, 2011
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Zombie_Moogle said:
Renegade-pizza said:
In connection to the Tropes vs Women reference, I don't take Alisia Sarkeesian seriously.

Watch her episode, then Facts vs Women and you'll see why.
While Thunderf00t's videos made rational counterpoints to Sarkeesian's videos, and that's a great start, we shouldn't forget the maelstrom of troll fire that arose after she announced her kickstarter

The side of the gaming community driven by compassion & perspective is ever growing, but there is still work to be done



Movie Bob, excellent video
After seeing Tropes vs Women, I really wish that the passion had been thrown towards showing "Hey! Look at this woman can't make a good argument! Don't give her your money!" rather than just death and rape threats.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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DerangedHobo said:
A public place, I.e. 'the real world' were general social rules apply where I can't make dead baby jokes without looking like a sociopath and being beaten with sticks, those 'public places'.
Oddly enough, you've no guarantee to that even without women present. Quelle dommage.
 

Abbot of Beregost

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Jun 25, 2012
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I would say that conflating the gamer community and greater geekdom is a pretty bad mistake. Online venues such as forums aren't nests of hatred and various -isms because of geeks; they're venues of hatred and shittiness because they're accessible to everyone, not just geeks. Some geeks and nerds are awful racists, sexists, etc. This I admit. But when every frathouse in the country has between one and three Xboxes, a large number of people use a gaming console as a babysitter, and the crowd at the latest showing of Star Trek has more popped collars than not...well, perhaps it's time to entertain the idea that equating most traditional mainstays of geekdom to actual geeks needs to be rethought.
 

jmarquiso

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Nov 21, 2009
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DerangedHobo said:
jmarquiso said:
DerangedHobo said:
So much this, I don't like women in my online games because it's just like being in a public place...
Because you are?
A public place, I.e. 'the real world' were general social rules apply where I can't make dead baby jokes without looking like a sociopath and being beaten with sticks, those 'public places'.
The day you get beaten with sticks over the internet is the day I think we have a few more problems. That's the thing though - you're responsible for hat you say WHEREVER YOU SAY IT. That's the other side of Freedom of Speech. It isn't a matter of political correctness, it's a matter of accepting that other people exist in the spaces you visit and will treat you accordingly.
 

Mr. Omega

ANTI-LIFE JUSTIFIES MY HATE!
Jul 1, 2010
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Zachary Amaranth said:
Mr. Omega said:
Ok, I'm just curious, but maybe one of you two can answer me.

When the fuck did "Don't be an asshole" and "Consider other people" become exclusively liberal positions as opposed to generally good advice?
Have you seen conservative campaigning lately? "don't be a dick" is pretty much the antithesis of modern American conservatism.

When? Well, when did Fox start their branding campaign? Mid-nineties?

Accusations of anything that disagrees with your being political are the cornerstone of said empire.
Oh believe me, I follow politics closely enough to know this has been the message for a while. But I just try to have a little more faith in my fellow man that this is just the fringe reacting. A vocal minority.

That being said, the more time passes, the more I begin to wonder just how "fringe" it really is. The reaction to this video, combined with a couple other troubling threads I've seen here regarding politics, certainly isn't helping.

More OT: I thought Bob was going a little to far this week. Then I read the comments, and that certainly showed why this kind of video was necessary.
 

Abbot of Beregost

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Jun 25, 2012
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Mr. Omega said:
That being said, the more time passes, the more I begin to wonder just how "fringe" it really is. The reaction to this video, combined with a couple other troubling threads I've seen here regarding politics, certainly isn't helping.

More OT: I thought Bob was going a little to far this week. Then I read the comments, and that certainly showed why this kind of video was necessary.
Unfortunately, some of the reactions aren't fringe because...well, they're mainstream. The same mainstream that plundered geek culture while kicking it every chance they got. Geekdom isn't mainstream- it's components are, like online gaming.

Here's an idea: listen to Fox News or it's leftist equivalent, and see where the overlap is next time you listen to the idiots on Xbox Live as they pour racism into your game.

This isn't a geek issue, it's an everyone issue.
 

CatmanStu

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Jul 22, 2008
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As Tommy Lee Jones said in MIB: A person is smart and rational; people are stupid and irrational.

The rise of the internet and it's anonymity do nothing more than give society the opportunity to be the morons they have always been; nerds are just more eloquent about it.
 

Uhura

This ain't no hula!
Aug 30, 2012
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klaynexas3 said:
I can say that we should work on toxicity as a community, but using Anita as an example of unwelcome is a bad example. While she does get sexist comments hurled at her by trolls and the like, there are genuine reasons not to like her, for one that she does take a stance basically saying that any given moment where a women might be shown in any sort of danger is automatically sexist, even if men are in the same said danger, and acts like that that one moment defines that woman and that nothing else she does has any merit.
Except she hasn't actually said that and that's not her stance. What she actually says:
Anita:
When I say Violence Against Women I'm primarily referring to images of women being victimized or when violence is specifically linked to a character's gender or sexuality. Female characters who happen to be involved in violent or combat situations on relatively equal footing with their opponents are typically be exempt them from this category because they are usually not framed as victims.
Look, I understand that not everyone is going to agree with her points or like what she says, but you aren't doing any favors to your argument when you completely misrepresent her points. It just gives an impression that either you haven't actually watched her videos or that you haven't understood what she says.

MooShoo said:
Instead what we get are feminists coming in and demanding that we change for THEM and we should adapt to THEIR needs, not even the needs of real girl gamers (they too have been around since the beginning) because from what I read they don't see the problems all these crazy feminists are talking about either.
So 'real girl gamers' cannot be feminists? You do know that there are plenty of female gamers on the Escapist who also identify as feminists?

Jennacide said:
I just want to say that while a lot of the outcry directed at Anita Sarkissian announcing her videos was sexist, mysognist nonsense, that too often it's glared over that thinking individuals like myself also did not want her doing it. Not because I don't believe there is something that could be said, but because I don't want Anita being the one to do it. There are many other notable feminists in the games sector that are well spoken, and will attempt to have an actual dialogue with people. Anita is the worst kind of militant feminist, the kind that make it so when I tell people I'm a feminist, they assume that means I burn my bra, hate pornography with a passion, and don't bathe.
I really don't understand the argument that 'she shouldn't be the one to do it'. Why is that a problem? Other feminists are completely free to start their own projects and do their own game critiques. (And using the word 'militant' seems a bit of an overkill in this context.)
 

leviadragon99

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Jun 17, 2010
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Damn right.

No matter the defensiveness and excuses, there is still plenty of bigotry in the community that we need to stamp out, I for one will not suffer bigotry in silence.