The Big Picture: You Are Wrong About Sucker Punch, Part One

[AngelBlackChaos]

Finally, someone is actually taking a worthwhile look at this film instead of just dismissing it as sexist pandering. I really liked this film myself.

I never really found the film misogynistic. I never felt like the movie was trying to make me look at the girls as sexually appealing, despite their costumes. They were just a side effect of the world the film was set in. The whole criticism of how the film is supposed to be dressing up soft porn as "empowerment" seemed so forced to me. It didn't feel like either of those. Maybe people just threw that criticism at the film because that's what people usually say about films that look like this. They didn't bother to look closer, or simply accept that there might be narrative reasons why the girls are dressed as they are, and not just to titillate the audience.

But the metaphor of the strip-tease and the action scenes and how that relates to the viewer sounds really interesting. It makes a whole lot of sense. I always had a feeling there was more going on in that film that it was letting on. The layers of fantasy weren't just Inception-esque plot devices to allow them to change scenery, they had meaning to them. I kind of got that the action scenes were analogous to the strip-tease, but adding the viewer in to the metaphor is genius. I never thought of that myself, but it makes perfect sense.

There's also the alternate, that while she is being violated/dancing, she is thinking of her plans with her friends, escaping to a world that she could make it. And while thinking of her escape plan as some hero like story, avoiding the nitty gritty parts that make them able to escape in the first place. Its also a way to kind of hope for herself a happy ending, until one of the girls die. Then reality partially starts to set in.

 

[lordmardok]

This seems kind of late. Sucker Punch came out a long while ago relatively speaking, I enjoyed Sucker Punch immensely actually, and not for the reasons some might have. It was like watching a burlesque show on film that actually full advantage of the pro's of movies, i.e. amazing effects and clarity, without losing the theater feel. It wasn't my favorite movie of all time, it had a relatively simple premise that I pretty much saw coming from the get go, but it was well executed and well designed.

 

[Jegsimmons]

well i see BOB follow TGWTG which is a good thing. varying opinions is always good.


but i recall first seeing this movie, and while not impressed with its story, i was grateful a movie of this type existed if not just for the risk and art style.
but i also remembered saying to my self "this movie is a bit smarter than its letting on, but im not sure how...."

then i saw this video and i was all :

"Fucking genius...even Snyder's 'bad' movie, isn't really bad"

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

Well, at the end of the day she is still a young girl, fantasy empowerment is one thing but its another to actually ask a teen (regardless of sex) with no combat experience to subdue would be attackers.

Yeah, I mean I get that, but I didn't expect her to go commando on his ass, just something instead of quivering in fear while he shoots her friends.

 

[Seneschal]

Yeah...

I don't buy it. It's like saying "Striptease is degrading and wrong", and following it up with a 20-minute Salma-Hayek-dancing-with-a-python-for-clothes number to illustrate your point. Then, after she covers up and everyone's boners subside, you continue with, "See? Wasn't that disgusting?"

For half of its running time, every ten minutes, the movie stops dead to have a "satirical" vignette that quite shamlessly basks in everything that it's trying to condemn. These sections are so shallow and pandering that they can literally be cut from the movie without affecting the asylum/brothel plot at all. When the supposedly subversive, insightful, gender-exploring message gets swamped by ten times the amount of completely straight sexist pandering, you can't still claim it was the entire point.

 

[DemBones]

I saw the film a year ago so I don't remember exact details about the film. I do remember the main reasons why I didn't like the film (though I wouldn't call it the worst film I've ever seen):

1. Contrary to what most people said positively about the film, I found the action scenes boring, over-long and visually cluttered. This might be due to me not remembering much of the scenes, but I recall while watching the later setpieces that they started to feel repetitive. I enjoyed the action scenes in Watchmen more, but they were almost literally pulled from the comic. Another factor that could lead to that is a weak narrative, since it was a big problem in the film that it focused more on its ideas it tried to convey than its characterizations. The film worked better in pieces than as a narrative held together (also like Watchmen).

2. I completely agree that the INTENTION of the filmmakers was to showcase the woman striking back at the males who gaze upon them, but they didn't pull it off. The thing is, if they try to mock sexual exploitation by sexually exploiting the attractive female stars in fetish outfits, then the intention seems disingenuous. They're condemning the audience while enabling them. This might have been averted with a change in tone, but then the film would have been completely different (like Bob said, it's easier to do with a comedy). Something like Starship Troopers worked because is was very tongue-in-cheek, but Sucker Punch was deadly serious. That was fine because that was the mood the film was going for, but it might of put the Snyder's metaphorical punch out of reach of the audience. It may have been Snyder's intention to subvert geek culture, but it wasn't the reason the film was made.

I'd like to hear what Bob says in part II.

 

[Dr. Crawver]

Seriously dude? You went to all this trouble to make not one, but two videos just to say how better you are then all of us just because we dont like a movie you do?

Fuck you Bob and your pretentiousness.

I know this is the internet and all, but why do people never actually listen/read to what others actually say? He flat out said that he didn't mind/care about whether you liked the film or not, he just wants the film to be liked or disliked on it's actual merits, rather than strawman ones that have been created for it.

If you disliked it, but understood the metaphors, great, the video wasn't about you. If you didn't get the metaphors, but do now and still don't, fine, at least you understood it now.

He never said that just because you disliked it, he was better than you.

 

[ThePS1Fan]

Am I the only one who hates this movie more now?
It's designed to draw in a certain audience only to blatantly insult said audience?
That is literately like asking someone to come over to you, just to punch them in the face. That's a dick move and you're a massive twat if you do that.

 

[PunkRex]

Well, at the end of the day she is still a young girl, fantasy empowerment is one thing but its another to actually ask a teen (regardless of sex) with no combat experience to subdue would be attackers.

Yeah, I mean I get that, but I didn't expect her to go commando on his ass, just something instead of quivering in fear while he shoots her friends.

I suppose, lets face she wasn't the most endearing character... I may have had a thing for the bus driver though... 0_0

 

[RobfromtheGulag]

Viewers -- How dare you watch movies with female protagonists!
Seems kind of anti-producive. Are you sure you're not on a spree after Cabin in the Woods Bob? This seems like a cut&paste with horror/violence replaced by action scifi / sexism.

Given this message may have been their intent, it seems to have failed a bit if most of the audience didn't get it. Then, as mentioned in the video, the high minded folk can discuss it over tea after the next urban poetry reading.

I went to see it because it was a sci-fi with a female lead. That doesn't happen too often (it does in a week or two here though!). The sci-fi alone probably would have gotten me in the theatre - if you omit comic book movies there aren't too many coming out these days. The pandering with the outfits was obvious, but that was definitely not the reason I went to see it. There are far better outlets for that sort of thing if you're into this subculture.

Final Thought - What if Zack Snyder started on this rhetoric with 300 and men in banana hammocks?! Gerard Butler was representing the repressed males!

 

[ritchards]

So... this is another one of those things whereby the only way to win is to not participate?

No moreso than any other forum thread on any website on the internet.

I was meaning more "given that the movie is criticising those who see it, the only way not to be criticised is to not participate", which reminds me of a certain FPS people are raving about...

 

[ElPatron]

>not a fan of anime/comics in general
>crap movie
>"hurr durr rape" message at the end

Am I supposed to be impressed?

Seriously, just how does a striptease parallel to shooting Nazi zombies?

How does becoming a Greek deity and brutally slash trough hordes of enemies parallel to a kid's problems with bullies?

It's called "escapism". It's a power fantasy that doesn't necessarily have to take place in the same setting. And yes, I knew a kid who played God of War to cope with constant bullying. Not an effective solution but he did it.

I feel like I 'get' this film mostly because I have been in abusive relationships with men and have used my imagination (and games) as a form of escapism. This film could have been taken from inside my head... I have real life parallels for both the step father and the doctor/brothel owner guy, unfortunately.

That's it, I'm out.

The characters in the movie had no way to deal with their situation (because plot convenience). Unlike the kid that got bullied, he had several options to deal with his problem.

I don't think the movie makes such a parallel with your life. This might sound rough, but you had other options and *chose* escapism over dealing with the problem directly.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

That's a pretty bold statement considering you know NOTHING about me. In both of the situations I was in I had very little choice over whether to stay in there or not.

This film had an effect on me more so than any other I have watched because it reminded me of bad situations I have been in. How you can call me out on that and say I'm 'wrong' for feeling that is just astonishing.

 

[chadachada123]

I feel like one of the few people that absolutely loved the movie but absolutely despise the people that only like it for the perviness.

Don't get me wrong, Emily Browning is in my top five most beautiful actresses right now. That said, I didn't watch the movie to get my sleeze on, nor was I aroused by the sexualization within.

Sure, most of the girls were hot and all, but I was actually interested in the damn story and the characters (the doctor, the warden, the father, the psychiatrist, and Browning's character herself).

The ending surprised the hell out of me, and was probably the best way to end a movie like that, even if I felt it didn't fit the 'escape' analogy well.

Spoiler

fucking keys, what?

All of this is said without yet watching your video. I'll edit this once I watch it to add new thoughts/opinions.

Edit number one: Still haven't watched the video, but need to include this: The Director's Cut added a great deal to the movie, and I highly recommend it to anyone that doesn't already hate the movie.

 

[TheSchaef]

I take a similar movie-snob perspective on the movie Fight Club, for a related but somewhat inverted reason.

My beef with that movie is not the people who hated it, but the people who go around (mostly on iMDB boards) saying it changed their life or whatever.

"Dudes", the movie was good for what it was, but it's not the basis for an entire life philosophy. As a treatise on nihilism, there was another movie out the same year that gave the topic a better treatment. It was called something like The Matrix, or whatever. Additionally, you're copying the movie's fights as a salve for a post-nuclear family culture, and to attain a sense of the visceral in a world saturated with simulacra. In some cases, you're even mimicking its anti-consumerist message and prankster vandalism (so far, no domestic terror attacks on our financial system, though I'm sure people gaze at that closing scene starry-eyed).

But here's the thing: a movie is telling you what is wrong with the world and with your life, and what you have to do to break out of this prison of the mind and make your own choices. Is the irony sinking in yet? You paid six bucks (it would be ten today) to a film studio in order to lift the blinders of modern consumerism? You remember those guys who, when Ed Norton's narrator shouted at them that they were all individuals, they replied in a simultaneous monotone "we are all individuals"? THAT'S YOU!

So yeah, Fight Club is my "movie snob" moment for people who love (or in the case of Sucker Punch, hate) the film without realizing that they are the target at whom the social satire is very squarely aimed.

 

[SnakeoilSage]

What the wha? Did we watch the same film? Did you listen to the last words that were said? Have you ever heard of revenge sexploitation films?

'Revenge Sexploitation.' Sounds like something a producer would say to get laid. "Yeah, we're gonna rape you, and really draw out the scene so everyone in the audience is horrified to the point of nausea or aroused to the point of self-conscious nausea, but you're gonna get revenge some day! That's makes us squaresies, right?"

What I saw at the end of Sucker Punch was one of the girls getting on a bus, and the cops stopping her but the bus driver saves her by lying to them. Didn't exactly scream "I have all my weapons and have fought my way to freedom" at that point. It screamed "my escape is random circumstance as the result of bizarre luck and coincidence and I needed a man to show up and set things right."

 

[TakerFoxx]

I always imagined that Baby Doll's dancing was actually the Napoleon Dynamite dance. Both are strangely hypnotic and leave the viewer speechless.

Okay, I still don't like the film (I got everything Bob said, I just found the actions scenes to be boring and overly long), but that image alone justifies the movie's existence for me.