The Chinese vaccine MAY not be that effective.

Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)

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Before I go on I just want to state that there is still debate going on about this how true this is or not. One of the articles I link has a balanced discussion on this.



So basically there is a debate going on how effective the 2 Chinese vaccines are actually dealing with Corona. and many have questioned its effectiveness because people are still getting sick.

What is really important is China gave a bunch of these vaccines to a bunch of other countries. So basically people are accusing China of rushing this out the door so they can have a PR win against the west.

So how much do you believe this?
 

warmachine

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There is a reason why those of the Chinese populace that can afford it import baby milk powder, rather than use domestic supplies. There is a reason why Dr Li WenLiang signed a letter promising not to spread 'untrue statements' about SARS cases.
 

Chimpzy

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Wasn't this already known? That Sinovac and Sinopharm are not the most effective vaccines out there, I mean. Testing of Sinovac in Brasil in particular showing only a 50% efficacy rate versus symptomatic covid, barely making the threshold for WHO approval? Tho as far as I understand, both are still generally good enough to prevent you falling seriously ill and needing hospitalization.

As for what to believe, I'm going with the truth being somewhere in the middle i.e. China did cut corners, delivering vaccines that under normal circumstances may have not been approved, maybe massaged its numbers too. But also that a loooooot of people don't understand what vaccines actually are i.e. they're not a convenient button that grants you god mode and makes the problem magically go away.
 
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MrCalavera

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They were one of the first vaccines released, no?
It's very possible they weren't as thoroughly tested as Sputnik and some western vaccines.

Of course, China will fight for their "good name" tooth and nail.

The scarier alternative is another, stronger strain.
(50% vacced populace also isn't herd immunity yet)
 

SilentPony

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I mean duh? The Chinese health policy has always been just have a billion people, who cares if a few million go?
Next you're going to tell me India doesn't really have a handle on their Covid cases and don't want anyone reporting on it because they don't have the medical infrastructure to actually treat its population and no one wants to admit its basically just a collection of loosely aligned states and the idea of a central controlling Government is laughable in the face of a pandemic.
 

Kwak

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A solution I heard was having multiple doses instead of 2. If that works, it's a simple fix.
 

Gergar12

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Now I feel stupid for having told people to take any vaccine they can get their hands on...

How in the world is China supposed to be the new superpower, when they can't get an issue related to STEM right. This was supposed to be their bread and butter.

Hey Singapore, I bet you feel stupid for having taken this vaccine instead of the western ones.
 
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Seanchaidh

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Is it time for the Cuban vaccine to step up?
 

Dirty Hipsters

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A solution I heard was having multiple doses instead of 2. If that works, it's a simple fix.
How simple is producing, transporting, and storing several billion more doses?
 
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SilentPony

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How in the world is China supposed to be the new superpower, when they can't get an issue related to STEM right. This was supposed to be their bread and butter.
Numbers, that's all it is. China has a billion+ people, that's their superpower. Their """official""" death toll is like 4,500, a number no one actually believes, but even if its a hundred thousand times higher, that's nothing to them. That's a drop in a ocean population wise. In that light it doesn't matter if the vaccine works or not, all it needs to do is keep the population from rioting, because the CCP's plan is to just let the virus run its course and if a few hundred million die, so be it. What do they care?
 
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Seanchaidh

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Numbers, that's all it is. China has a billion+ people, that's their superpower. Their """official""" death toll is like 4,500, a number no one actually believes, but even if its a hundred thousand times higher, that's nothing to them.
I'm pretty sure they'd notice a third of their population missing.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Wasn't this already known? That Sinovac and Sinopharm are not the most effective vaccines out there, I mean. Testing of Sinovac in Brasil in particular showing only a 50% efficacy rate versus symptomatic covid, barely making the threshold for WHO approval? Tho as far as I understand, both are still generally good enough to prevent you falling seriously ill and needing hospitalization.
Hospitalizations and deaths is the key number. If a vaccine had 0% efficacy against getting covid but 100% for stopping hospitalizations and deaths, then it would be a damn good vaccine. People overrate and only focus on the efficacy for completely stopping infections vs what's most important. I'm not defending the Chinese vaccine by any means as I don't really have a clue on how good it is.

Numbers, that's all it is. China has a billion+ people, that's their superpower. Their """official""" death toll is like 4,500, a number no one actually believes, but even if its a hundred thousand times higher, that's nothing to them. That's a drop in a ocean population wise. In that light it doesn't matter if the vaccine works or not, all it needs to do is keep the population from rioting, because the CCP's plan is to just let the virus run its course and if a few hundred million die, so be it. What do they care?
I'm not gonna defend China but I'm pretty sure by all accounts, the CCP is not letting the virus rip through its population. I'm pretty sure their strat was to basically lock everyone up (regardless if they needed medical attention) to extinguish the virus. That strat of course lead to much more death in the present but saved future death. It's something no western country would do but it's not without its merits though. Yeah, China lies about all their numbers in like everything, but it seems like they accomplished very low covid by doing what they did because we'd have some knowledge of covid ripping through China since we did at the start.
 
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SilentPony

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I'm pretty sure they'd notice a third of their population missing.
Maybe. Truly, maybe. But they're also a rigidly controlled people that the CCP has no problems with isolating from the world, "reeducating" or just straight up killing. There's no way in hell their actual death toll is only 4,500. Yet no one is coming forward saying well actually entire towns are missing, and we're doing mass graves like India. Wouldn't be surprised if their death toll is in the tens of millions and we don't find out for decades.

I'm not gonna defend China but I'm pretty sure by all accounts, the CCP is not letting the virus rip through its population. I'm pretty sure their strat was to basically lock everyone up (regardless if they needed medical attention) to extinguish the virus. That strat of course lead to much more death in the present but saved future death. It's something no western country would do but it's not without its merits though. Yeah, China lies about all their numbers in like everything, but it seems like they accomplished very low covid by doing what they did because we'd have some knowledge of covid ripping through China since we did at the start.
See I disagree. This is China we're talking about. They've never shown as inclination towards protecting their population, and have always just blunt forced bodies their way through things. Lie about the numbers, not just to the world, but to the population. Your grandparents didn't die of Covid, its just been a very bad flu season and was their time. Tens of millions of cell phones didn't shut off in early 2020 because their users died, everyone just took a me-cation to the country side. Covid didn't start at the Covid research center in Wuhan, a pangolin had sex with a bat and traveled to a US military base in New Jersey. The Covid vaccine is super effective and you're totally inoculated, you just had a bad cold for 8 weeks.
China has an official death toll of 4,500 for the same reason North Korea doesn't have a single official case, and its not thanks to a robust health care system.
 
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Bob_McMillan

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As someone who just got his second dose of said Chinese vaccine: Welp.

It doesn't bother me too much. If you read through some of the articles, you'll notice that plenty of the countries that went through outbreaks didn't exactly handle reopening well. The healthcare workers that died in Indonesia were in terrible shape after multiple 24 hour shifts. I'm not planning on going around outside without a mask on, at most I plan to just go back to grocery shopping instead of ordering everything. I just want the assurance that even if against all odds I get Covid, I won't end up dead.

I still think the best vaccine you can get is the one you can get right now, but it's pretty obvious to everyone that Sinovac and likely Sinopharm (still unsure of the difference tbh) aren't the greatest options out there. They should have most definitely not been given to healthcare workers, though doing so would have obliterated the already low confidence in Sinovac. The best thing to do now is to diversify vaccine usage, but then that's easier said than done with the west hoarding vaccines and governments like mine choking on China's dick.

EDIT: What I want to know now is what the deal will be with booster shots. Is there any medical reason we can't have extra doses of different vaccines? Our family already purchased some Moderna doses, but they'll be arriving late in the year, maybe even early 2022.
 

Silvanus

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I imagine they probably rushed it through to try to turn a PR disaster (their shoddy regulation exacerbated the pandemic a hundredfold) into a PR victory (they saved us with the vaccine).

So, playing politics with peoples' lives, again. Just as countless governments around the world have been doing with their brainless border control policies, inconsistent messaging, late lockdowns, and vaccine chauvinism.
 

SilentPony

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This is unhinged Sinophobia.
Right, because the Chinese government is such an honest, open and free group of very friendly people. When have they ever withheld the truth from their people or the world? When have they ever stamped down on whistle blowers, reporters, and fed their people an alternate history? When have they ever denied events in which people died? That's just SOOO unlike the CCP.
 
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Seanchaidh

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Right, because the Chinese government is such an honest, open and free group of very friendly people. When have they ever withheld the truth from their people or the world? When have they ever stamped down on whistle blowers, reporters, and fed their people an alternate history? When have they ever denied events in which people died? That's just SOOO unlike the CCP.
And?
 

SilentPony

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And the """"""official"""""" death toll from Covid is 4,500, according to the honest, open, free and friendly CCP, with reports suggesting they've under-reported their deaths by over 99%.
And going by funeral urn distribution since the pandemic started, the death toll could have been nearly 700,000 by June 2020, but that doesn't take into account mobile crematorium trucks.