The ending of Ocarina of Time isn't in the Ocarina of Time?

[galdon2004]

So, its apparently 'common knowledge' that in the ending of Ocarina of Time, Link goes back into the past further than he left to warn Zelda about Ganondorf's treachery, and in that timeline, Ganon is then arrested and executed, and Link goes off to find Navi in the forest, where Majora's Mask picks up.

Well, I was just recently finishing up replaying the game on the 3DS and at the end after beating Ganon, Zelda tells link that when she sends him back, he can close the door of time by putting away the master sword for good and he can live out the rest of his childhood. It then shows everybody dancing a bit, and then shows the sages looking over the world, then Link visits the castle, and as soon as he sees Zelda the colors fade to brown, then it fades to black, and that's basically the end.

No conversation, no disappearance of Navi, and no capture or execution of Ganondorf. I can get that perhaps it's in the Lore that is what happens, but it leaves me a bit confused as to what the source then is, as clearly the source isn't 'the end of ocarina of time' Can someone clear up what exactly is going on there?

 

[ms_sunlight]

So, its apparently 'common knowledge' that in the ending of Ocarina of Time, Link goes back into the past further than he left to warn Zelda about Ganondorf's treachery, and in that timeline, Ganon is then arrested and executed, and Link goes off to find Navi in the forest, where Majora's Mask picks up.

How is that "common knowledge"? I've played the N64 Ocarina of Time through twice, and Majora's Mask through at least 3 or 4 times (it's one of my all-time favourites) and that's not what happens.

Ganon is defeated. Link returns the master sword, and goes back to his childhood. Navi leaves.

How the hell could he go back in time further than when he first picked up the Master Sword? I do not recall that being in the game anywhere.

By the way, at the start of Majora's Mask, child Link is looking for a dear friend, but this is never explicitly stated to be Navi.

Unless the 3DS OoT has a significant change to the ending (which I would deplore) what you say is just not the case!

 

[endtherapture]

Navi disappearing is the very start of MM isn't it?

And execution of Ganondorf is in Twilight Princess?

So I suppose they are he sources, just time has changed things a bit.

Or the 3DS version is just different from original N64 version.

 

[Bromion]

Because that's what Eiji aounuma said happens. since he's the series producer, what he says goes and he says that Link was sent back to the time before Ganon attacked the castle so he could tell Zelda what a stupid idea her plan is. Ganon's back story from Twilight Princess logically follows from that point.

 

[neblim93]

Navi disappears at the end of OoT. When Link returns to his childhood state in the ToT, Navi just picks up and leaves without saying a word, and Link turns around and leaves. Kind of an awkward ending, but I always thought there was a deep conversation between the two that would be explained later in the series.
As for the rest of that, I would guess that would be based off developer statements/conclusions from future games, like TP.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Because the fans made it up. The Legend of Zelda fans have been desperately trying to piece together the legend of Zelda story forever and its an impossible task. Every piece only makes things even more confused. Apparently someone in charge said there is a storyline (in contradiction to the story here on the Escapist with the dev member saying there wasn't mind you) and now the fans put on there tinfoil hats and have slaved over there duct-tape and bailing wire explanation for years, only for it to look evermore ludicrous with each game and for the fans to become every more adamant with each passing year. I don't know why people can't just accept that there is no plusable explanation for a story, just accept that they are unconnected and do something productive with there life rather then spinning tales to reassure themselves that some series of games and connected and there life somehow now has meaning. I like the games too but I have better things to do then grasp at straws and be a conspiracy theorist.

 

[Sean951]

It's never really explained, but kinda of assumed that Future Zelda sends Link back farther in time since it ends with him going to see her for the "first" time again, and giving her the warning.

 

[Et3rnalLegend64]

We do see Navi up and leave after Link places the sword back again. We do also see Zelda peeking in the window again like when we first see her. There is no solid evidence for anything else that may have led to future games.
Link's "missing friend" in Majora's Mask may or may not be Navi.
Ganondorf's execution in Twilight Princess may or may not be because Child Link warned Zelda at the end of Ocarina.

Personally, I'm all for the timeline theory. Not saying anyone else has to be. I'm just straightening out where the trains of thought come from.

Edit: Well, there is solid evidence for one thing at least, if only because it's retroactively stated. At some point, Ganondorf returns from the void dimension to wreak havoc. The people wait for the return of a supposed "Hero of Time" but he never shows up (presumably because Link became a child again and never took the Master Sword again). The gods flood Hyrule, leading into the universe of Wind Waker.

 

[galdon2004]

So, its apparently 'common knowledge' that in the ending of Ocarina of Time, Link goes back into the past further than he left to warn Zelda about Ganondorf's treachery, and in that timeline, Ganon is then arrested and executed, and Link goes off to find Navi in the forest, where Majora's Mask picks up.

How is that "common knowledge"? I've played the N64 Ocarina of Time through twice, and Majora's Mask through at least 3 or 4 times (it's one of my all-time favourites) and that's not what happens.

Ganon is defeated. Link returns the master sword, and goes back to his childhood. Navi leaves.

How the hell could he go back in time further than when he first picked up the Master Sword? I do not recall that being in the game anywhere.

By the way, at the start of Majora's Mask, child Link is looking for a dear friend, but this is never explicitly stated to be Navi.

Unless the 3DS OoT has a significant change to the ending (which I would deplore) what you say is just not the case!

Thats basically what I was asking; I've read in many places that was what happens in the ending of OOT, but after finishing the game and watching the ending, none of it happened.

@endtherapture: so, 'At the end of Ocarina of Time' is really just shorthand for 'implied to happen at about that point in the timeline by another game' then?

 

[DustyDrB]

I feel like if it doesn't happen in the game, it doesn't happen at all. That said, I've never been fussed over the timeline in Zelda. And this has been my favorite series for about 20 years now (I'm 24, Zelda II was the second game I ever played).

 

[Phlakes]

So, if something happens off screen in a movie, do you just not believe that?

 

[galdon2004]

So, if something happens off screen in a movie, do you just not believe that?

I think deleted scene would be a closer analogy there; and it seems spotty, especially since the guy incharge seems to change his mind about the zelda timeline/plot himself.

 

[Phlakes]

So, if something happens off screen in a movie, do you just not believe that?

Kind of. Think about Dark Knight. Batman jumped off a building to rescue his girlfriend leaving a room full of rich people to Joker and his goons. What happened? Obviously they didn't get hurt because they're never mentioned again, but obviously Batman didn't go back because they didn't show it, and it never was mentioned again.

Also, video games aren't movies, despite what Kojima and Squenix would have you believe. A movie is generally 90-180 minutes. A video game is generally 6-20 hours. If they don't show it in that time, why would we have any reason to believe it happened? There weren't run time constraints, and deadlines are easily fixed with text or half-assed dialogue. When it comes to what we see and what happens canonically we have to hold movies and video games to a different standard. Games tell a longer story, and have more time to tell it than movies.

The only thing in question here is the ending cutscene. It was left open ended, and then someone sometime said what canonically happened. Just like every other game/movie/show that's ever not shown anything directly.

 

[Jazoni89]

Because the fans made it up. The Legend of Zelda fans have been desperately trying to piece together the legend of Zelda story forever and its an impossible task. Every piece only makes things even more confused. Apparently someone in charge said there is a storyline (in contradiction to the story here on the Escapist with the dev member saying there wasn't mind you) and now the fans put on there tinfoil hats and have slaved over there duct-tape and bailing wire explanation for years, only for it to look evermore ludicrous with each game and for the fans to become every more adamant with each passing year. I don't know why people can't just accept that there is no plusable explanation for a story, just accept that they are unconnected and do something productive with there life rather then spinning tales to reassure themselves that some series of games and connected and there life somehow now has meaning. I like the games too but I have better things to do then grasp at straws and be a conspiracy theorist.

It was confirmed only a week ago in an official book that the timeline does exist, but not entirely what most of the fans imagined it would be like.


Skip to 5:05

Here's the translation.

http://www.glitterberri.com/content/zelda_series/hyrule_historia/timeline.png

There's is actually a three way spilt, rather than the rumoured two spilt. The two rumoured splits are just exactly like they were imagined to be. Link leaves the adult world behind, then goes back to tell Zelda about Ganondolf's plans for hyrule and of his treason to the high king, thus he get's sent to death which starts the Twilight Princess storyline. Link also leaves the world of hyrule behind to find Navi thus begins Manjora's Mask in the same Timeline. In the Adult Timeline, Zelda tries to mend a broken Hyrule, which has Ganondolf locked away in the sacred realm. He somehow breaks out of it, and there's no hero of time to save them, so the people of hyrule prayed to the gods to save them. This causes the gods to flood hyrule which starts Wind Waker.

This third timeline however is possibly a what if scenario, if Link falls to Ganondolf in Ocarina of Time. There's so many theories about this third timeline (some involving more rifs in the timeline's and even a creation of a new one due to possible time paradoxes involving the removal of the master sword in the child timeline), but what does happen is that Ganondolf gains the triforce in the sacred realm, the Knights of hyrule fight with Ganondolf and his minons over the Triforce which starts the Imprisoning war, when Ganon gets sealed in the sacred realm by the seven sages thus Beginning the Link to the Past storyline.

I think that's how it goes, I think the official timeline brings out more questions than answers though.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Snipped for space

Even if that is an official book (not doubting it is but I can't read the book and its on the internet so I have reason to be suspicious), this strikes me as an "oh crap" solution by the developers. It looks like a cobbled together mess implying that if some grand storyline does exist they probably only created it recently (maybe just so they had something to show in the book). No one in there right mind would develop something as needlessness complex as that for what could be a simply storyline if it was planned out in advance and I don't think anyone would make so many branches and breaks that depend on numerous games getting developed when the series was just starting out. This strikes me as an extremely retroactive piece-mealing. I stand by my point that there was no storyline and the games were developed without any grand plan even if they are going to create some official thing now. It'll be interesting to see if they actually follow this or continue to do what they want and give this tree even more branches.