The Escapist Community is a tad too toxic

Johnlives

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Dec 6, 2009
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ACWells said:
At this point if Macris had a clue what he was doing, he'd either kill off the forums as the obvious dead weight it is and focus on the content this site just does NOT have...

...or just keep dong what they're doing, which will have the same result.
This makes me genuinely curious, you haven't been here for a long time yet you've racked up quite the post count, obviously you enjoy a chinwag and have chosen this forum to have it (welcome by the way, incase no one metnioned it before).

Now you've put a little study into the place with your informal survey and come to the conclusions you have. If you have such a negative view of these forums why did you choose them? One can enjoy the content on this site very well without participating or even looking at the forums.
 

GhostHunter

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Jan 24, 2015
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Kyogissun said:
Oh and this, I can't stand the moderation. There are moments where people say stupid shit and should get reprimanded, but the rate at which warnings, suspensions and bans are handed out on here is far too god damn frequent. This is a PUBLIC FORUM and the persistent favoring towards the people who are CLEARLY being hostile and antagonistic but using manipulative context and language to avoid getting punished as well is absolute bullshit. There's enough examples of it on here and crystal clear favoritism to a certain type of context and language used by the posters that it really does feel like some obnoxious levels of tone policing and dialogue control that directly influences my decision to posts. Hell, had you two not said anything, i wouldn't have brought it up myself.
This

Is always the 10 or so people for never seem to be banned even when intentionally breaking the COC and gloating about in a public thread. oh and the ban jumper whose still around if you can figure it out. I hear the user groups are better but i never liked closed door discussion unless it was a private matter.
 

Kyogissun

Notably Neutral
Jan 12, 2010
520
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GhostHunter said:
Kyogissun said:
Oh and this, I can't stand the moderation. There are moments where people say stupid shit and should get reprimanded, but the rate at which warnings, suspensions and bans are handed out on here is far too god damn frequent. This is a PUBLIC FORUM and the persistent favoring towards the people who are CLEARLY being hostile and antagonistic but using manipulative context and language to avoid getting punished as well is absolute bullshit. There's enough examples of it on here and crystal clear favoritism to a certain type of context and language used by the posters that it really does feel like some obnoxious levels of tone policing and dialogue control that directly influences my decision to posts. Hell, had you two not said anything, i wouldn't have brought it up myself.
This

Is always the 10 or so people for never seem to be banned even when intentionally breaking the COC and gloating about in a public thread. oh and the ban jumper whose still around if you can figure it out. I hear the user groups are better but i never liked closed door discussion unless it was a private matter.
While I cannot attest to seeing what you're referring to with people gloating, I CAN say I've seen numerous situations which DEFINITELY fall under flamebaiting wherein a user uses extremely dismissive, disrespectful and passive aggressive dialogue to bait out the person they're discussing into being more blunt and straightforward with a retort, often due to the baiter intentionally throwing in a personal jab at another individual disguised as critical commentary.

Essentially, if you're enough of a smartass arrogant dickbag on this forum, you get rewarded for it by being able to talk as much shit as you want, provided you're eloquent and diverse enough with your dialogue usage. And I'm not talking just about using 10 dollar words or some bullshit like that, even though I've seen it done and be guilty of it on other outlets and social venues, I'm also referring to people using mental gymnastics in their dialogue and context to phrase things as to how their chosen wording is 'totally not offensive or antagonistic in any way whatsoever' when it clearly is. And to me at least, that is the most elitist fucking bullshit anyone could ever do, because it gives that air of that person thinking you're so beneath them that they're able to talk shit right to your face and receive no punishment for it. But don't dare talk back to them, cause then they'll report you for offending them or flaming them and wham, you've got a warning/suspension/ban.
 

Treeinthewoods

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May 14, 2010
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I am coming in late here, not a frequent poster but I have been here at least weekly since I joined and the big thing I notice is this:

For a video game news/enthusiast site this forum is full of people that seem to really hate video games.

Good example, the news about the size of Fallout 4's script has been on other sites and Facebook all day. Most responses anywhere else I have looked are along the lines of, "Shut up and take my bottlecaps!" That is how I feel myself, I love Fallout and I can't wait for 4.

The responses in the thread here are literally all about how it's going to be crappy. "Quality over quantity, blah blah blah, I am such a hipster." Someone observed that the core players of Bethesda games want big worlds to do jack shit in. The community here seems to think Fallout 4 is going to be shit and anyone looking forward to it will suffer in misery and shame. That's kind of a downer...

That's just one example but it is pretty consistent. Compared to other sites people here seem to respond very, very cynically to any video game news. That kind of makes people who might come here (video game lovers) less inclined to jump into discussions.

But that's just my opinion on it, maybe I am just drunk.
 

IceForce

Is this memes?
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Apr 4, 2020
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Treeinthewoods said:
Good example, the news about the size of Fallout 4's script has been on other sites and Facebook all day. Most responses anywhere else I have looked are along the lines of, "Shut up and take my bottlecaps!" That is how I feel myself, I love Fallout and I can't wait for 4.

The responses in the thread here are literally all about how it's going to be crappy. "Quality over quantity, blah blah blah, I am such a hipster." Someone observed that the core players of Bethesda games want big worlds to do jack shit in. The community here seems to think Fallout 4 is going to be shit and anyone looking forward to it will suffer in misery and shame. That's kind of a downer...
The Facebook comments are better than the Escapist thread comments? Well crap, this forum really is in the doldrums.

As for why this forum tends to attract so many bitter and cynical individuals, well, Yahtzee is the main drawcard to this site, and like-attracts-like, so...
 

Treeinthewoods

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May 14, 2010
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IceForce said:
Treeinthewoods said:
Good example, the news about the size of Fallout 4's script has been on other sites and Facebook all day. Most responses anywhere else I have looked are along the lines of, "Shut up and take my bottlecaps!" That is how I feel myself, I love Fallout and I can't wait for 4.

The responses in the thread here are literally all about how it's going to be crappy. "Quality over quantity, blah blah blah, I am such a hipster." Someone observed that the core players of Bethesda games want big worlds to do jack shit in. The community here seems to think Fallout 4 is going to be shit and anyone looking forward to it will suffer in misery and shame. That's kind of a downer...
The Facebook comments are better than the Escapist thread comments? Well crap, this forum really is in the doldrums.

As for why this forum tends to attract so many bitter and cynical individuals, well, Yahtzee is the main drawcard to this site, and like-attracts-like, so...
Yeah, it sounds crazy but discussing it on Facebook is actually more inviting than here. If YouTube comments are ever more civil and welcoming than an Escapist thread I will suicide ban myself.

And I love Yahtzee, he makes me laugh pretty consistently but for God's sake if you take him too seriously all the time the only game you would ever play would be Painkiller.
 

Kyogissun

Notably Neutral
Jan 12, 2010
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Treeinthewoods said:
I am coming in late here, not a frequent poster but I have been here at least weekly since I joined and the big thing I notice is this:

For a video game news/enthusiast site this forum is full of people that seem to really hate video games.

Good example, the news about the size of Fallout 4's script has been on other sites and Facebook all day. Most responses anywhere else I have looked are along the lines of, "Shut up and take my bottlecaps!" That is how I feel myself, I love Fallout and I can't wait for 4.

The responses in the thread here are literally all about how it's going to be crappy. "Quality over quantity, blah blah blah, I am such a hipster." Someone observed that the core players of Bethesda games want big worlds to do jack shit in. The community here seems to think Fallout 4 is going to be shit and anyone looking forward to it will suffer in misery and shame. That's kind of a downer...

That's just one example but it is pretty consistent. Compared to other sites people here seem to respond very, very cynically to any video game news. That kind of makes people who might come here (video game lovers) less inclined to jump into discussions.

But that's just my opinion on it, maybe I am just drunk.
For the sake of a disclaimer, I just found the gloating about the script absolutely stupid when instead they could show gameplay and let the game speak for itself.

My post in that thread may be critical, but I am hype as fuck for FO4.
 

BrokenTinker

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Sep 11, 2014
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Treeinthewoods said:
I am coming in late here, not a frequent poster but I have been here at least weekly since I joined and the big thing I notice is this:

For a video game news/enthusiast site this forum is full of people that seem to really hate video games.

Good example, the news about the size of Fallout 4's script has been on other sites and Facebook all day. Most responses anywhere else I have looked are along the lines of, "Shut up and take my bottlecaps!" That is how I feel myself, I love Fallout and I can't wait for 4.

The responses in the thread here are literally all about how it's going to be crappy. "Quality over quantity, blah blah blah, I am such a hipster." Someone observed that the core players of Bethesda games want big worlds to do jack shit in. The community here seems to think Fallout 4 is going to be shit and anyone looking forward to it will suffer in misery and shame. That's kind of a downer...

That's just one example but it is pretty consistent. Compared to other sites people here seem to respond very, very cynically to any video game news. That kind of makes people who might come here (video game lovers) less inclined to jump into discussions.

But that's just my opinion on it, maybe I am just drunk.
Nah, not just you, I don't even bother to talk about games here after going through the threads, you've the same group of ppl throwing accusation and shit at games where it was never intended by the creator(s). And people that are woefully not aware of the culture they are criticizing while calling others the offense of the day. Hell, the most fun I've had is a certain user's "satire news", brought a smile to my face a few times.
 

SolidState

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May 30, 2015
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ACWells said:
At this point if Macris had a clue what he was doing, he'd either kill off the forums as the obvious dead weight it is and focus on the content this site just does NOT have...

...or just keep dong what they're doing, which will have the same result.
Joystiq had no forums and was just a host for their journalist's content, and look what happened there.
 

Frankster

Space Ace
May 11, 2020
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I dunno if I can agree the forums have become more toxic, I don't recall being told in the past years to go commit suicide, that my tastes in games are shitty and make me an inferior human being and I'm not wanted on the escapist so should just leave, etc....

Yet I was told all that in my first few years. Now the trend is to be sly and snarky with your attacks.
I admit I hate that, I much prefer someone call me a wanker to my face rather then dance around and imply it.

But just goes to show the forums have always been about the same, toxicity wise, just the methods have changed.

I will agree that there are a lot more hot button topics then there used to be though, which is what really poisons the well. When I first signed up the escapist was a more carefree and apolitical place. Now? Oh boy..
People say its GG but nah, it was already happening way before.

Makes me miss the old days when all the hostility was about march madness and how people twisted themselves into knots over "unworthy" devs or publishes possibly winning the MM.


Treeinthewoods said:
The responses in the thread here are literally all about how it's going to be crappy. "Quality over quantity, blah blah blah, I am such a hipster." .
Eh..I don't agree with this, wtf should we go crazy over every bit of pre release PR? And furthermore this isn't even part of some new wave of negativism that has come across the escapist... The escapist was ALWAYS a place to discuss games openly, both good and bad. It's part of why I liked this place and I've been making bitchy posts about upcoming games for as long as I've been a member and never felt out of place so yeah.. This really isn't something you can say the escapist has become more toxic in, if anything this is something that's been stable throughout my years here.

And honestly I'd rather we have a bit of cynism here and don't go crazy over every piece of PR fed to us and am disappointed you think I should be jumping up in glee on finding out that fallout 4 has a bigger script, as if that alone will make the game super awesome when I know for a fact once I'm playing I won't give a toss how big the script is if I find the quality to be lacking and I don't think you would either.
 

Sigmund Av Volsung

Hella noided
Dec 11, 2009
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This happens with every site.

Recently, it has been made worse by a drove of GGers and AGGers duking it out in GID, but overall, it's not that bad. The internet is the home of nitpicks; it was created by nerds for nerds.
 

Zen Bard

Eats, Shoots and Leaves
Sep 16, 2012
704
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Ricardo Lima said:
Has this forum turned in Toxicity Olyimpics where eryone pretends the other is winning?
Oh this forum doesn't even [i/]place[/i]. Gold, Silver and Bronze in the Toxicity Olympics would go to YouTube, Reddit and any Political news site, respectively.

The Escapist would be like a Jamaican Bobsled team...

Sansha said:
This I totally agree with. I've noticed an increasing amount of intellectually elitist quips and snipes, cleverly stepping around directly insulting someone by being condescending and rude. And none of the moderators seem to notice.


I've started looking back into it now that that garbage seems to have finally been hauled away, but the lack of moderation towards what is obvious flame-baiting is repelling me again.
I've seen a few comments like this on "flame baiting". And while it's a legitimate concern, here's the thing:

Some one once told me "It takes two to have an argument. Next time someone tries to start one with you, refuse to participate."

Absolutely no one says you have to take the bait, especially if you know that's what the other person wants. Sometimes walking away is a bigger "Fuck you" than getting drawn into a stupid flame war.
 

Treeinthewoods

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May 14, 2010
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Frankster said:
I dunno if I can agree the forums have become more toxic, I don't recall being told in the past years to go commit suicide, that my tastes in games are shitty and make me an inferior human being and I'm not wanted on the escapist so should just leave, etc....

Yet I was told all that in my first few years. Now the trend is to be sly and snarky with your attacks.
I admit I hate that, I much prefer someone call me a wanker to my face rather then dance around and imply it.

But just goes to show the forums have always been about the same, toxicity wise, just the methods have changed.

I will agree that there are a lot more hot button topics then there used to be though, which is what really poisons the well. When I first signed up the escapist was a more carefree and apolitical place. Now? Oh boy..
People say its GG but nah, it was already happening way before.

Makes me miss the old days when all the hostility was about march madness and how people twisted themselves into knots over "unworthy" devs or publishes possibly winning the MM.


Treeinthewoods said:
The responses in the thread here are literally all about how it's going to be crappy. "Quality over quantity, blah blah blah, I am such a hipster." .
Eh..I don't agree with this, wtf should we go crazy over every bit of pre release PR? And furthermore this isn't even part of some new wave of negativism that has come across the escapist... The escapist was ALWAYS a place to discuss games openly, both good and bad. It's part of why I liked this place and I've been making bitchy posts about upcoming games for as long as I've been a member and never felt out of place so yeah.. This really isn't something you can say the escapist has become more toxic in, if anything this is something that's been stable throughout my years here.

And honestly I'd rather we have a bit of cynism here and don't go crazy over every piece of PR fed to us and am disappointed you think I should be jumping up in glee on finding out that fallout 4 has a bigger script, as if that alone will make the game super awesome when I know for a fact once I'm playing I won't give a toss how big the script is if I find the quality to be lacking and I don't think you would either.
Well see, I have loved the hell out every Bethesda game since Morrowind and have played them all for more cumulative hours than basically every game I own combined. Fallout 4 is going to be awesome, all it has to do is be Fallout 3 with more stuff to do and I will love it. Hell yes you should be excited, it's Fallout 3 plus Skyrim in dialogue size. That's big man, Bethesda is pushing the envelope here. And I really have no idea how anybody can seriously criticize the perfectly enjoyable stories of either of those games so if the quality is simply equal it will be my gaming nirvana.

I love all video games, there are very few games I have ever played that left me feeling unhappy. Games are not "srs bzns" to me at all and people who try to take it that way always strike me as cynical hipsters who can be overlooked.

This place draws that crowd, that crowd specifically makes casuals like me feel like getting involved with this community is going to be more negative than positive. Hence, IMHO, the steadily shrinking user base. Most of the positive, friendly folks move on or exist in forum games and user grips exclusively now.

Usually if I try to envision the typical poster here I see the Goth Kids from Southpark, darkness and pain man. Cute but fully predictable.
 

The Lunatic

Princess
Jun 3, 2010
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Passive aggression has always been an issue on the forums.

Nobody wants these people around, and they're mostly near-banned anyway. Yet, for some reason, nobody had decided that they're just more harm than good at this stage.

Simply, these are members who add nothing to the forum but cause fights and make everyone else feel unwelcome, and yet, they seemingly get a longer leash than everyone else.


Perhaps when, finally, after some of them have been banned for the 4th or 5th time, they'll actually stay that way, but, I can't imagine there will be much forum left for anyone else to enjoy.
 

Ricardo Lima

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May 4, 2012
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Zen Bard said:
Ricardo Lima said:
Has this forum turned in Toxicity Olyimpics where eryone pretends the other is winning?
Oh this forum doesn't even [i/]place[/i]. Gold, Silver and Bronze in the Toxicity Olympics would go to YouTube, Reddit and any Political news site, respectively.

onze in the Toxicity Olympics would go to YouTube, Reddit and any Political news site, respectively.

The Escapist would be like a Jamaican Bobsled team...

Sansha said:
This I totally agree with. I've noticed an increasing amount of intellectually elitist quips and snipes, cleverly stepping around directly insulting someone by being condescending and rude. And none of the moderators seem to notice.


I've started looking back into it now that that garbage seems to have finally been hauled away, but the lack of moderation towards what is obvious flame-baiting is repelling me again.
I've seen a few comments like this on "flame baiting". And while it's a legitimate concern, here's the thing:

Some one once told me "It takes two to have an argument. Next time someone tries to start one with you, refuse to participate."

Absolutely no one says you have to take the bait, especially if you know that's what the other person wants. Sometimes walking away is a bigger "Fuck you" than getting drawn into a stupid flame war.
Zen Bard said:
Ricardo Lima said:
Has this forum turned in Toxicity Olyimpics where eryone pretends the other is winning?
Oh this forum doesn't even [i/]place[/i]. Gold, Silver and Bronze in the Toxicity Olympics would go to YouTube, Reddit and any Political news site, respectively.

The Escapist would be like a Jamaican Bobsled team...

Sansha said:
This I totally agree with. I've noticed an increasing amount of intellectually elitist quips and snipes, cleverly stepping around directly insulting someone by being condescending and rude. And none of the moderators seem to notice.


I've started looking back into it now that that garbage seems to have finally been hauled away, but the lack of moderation towards what is obvious flame-baiting is repelling me again.
I've seen a few comments like this on "flame baiting". And while it's a legitimate concern, here's the thing:

Some one once told me "It takes two to have an argument. Next time someone tries to start one with you, refuse to participate."

Absolutely no one says you have to take the bait, especially if you know that's what the other person wants. Sometimes walking away is a bigger "Fuck you" than getting drawn into a stupid flame war.

1 - That there worse places does not change that there is a problem. And you forgot Twitter.

2 - Its a forum is supposed to discuss ideas and news. The purpose of some topic briganders is silence discussion or opposing views. Discussion with flamers is pointless identify and ifgnore them is the best course of action. But they still can disrupt a topic to hell and too often do.
 
Sep 14, 2009
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Treeinthewoods said:
Well see, I have loved the hell out every Bethesda game since Morrowind and have played them all for more cumulative hours than basically every game I own combined. Fallout 4 is going to be awesome, all it has to do is be Fallout 3 with more stuff to do and I will love it. Hell yes you should be excited, it's Fallout 3 plus Skyrim in dialogue size. That's big man, Bethesda is pushing the envelope here. And I really have no idea how anybody can seriously criticize the perfectly enjoyable stories of either of those games so if the quality is simply equal it will be my gaming nirvana.

I love all video games, there are very few games I have ever played that left me feeling unhappy. Games are not "srs bzns" to me at all and people who try to take it that way always strike me as cynical hipsters who can be overlooked.

This place draws that crowd, that crowd specifically makes casuals like me feel like getting involved with this community is going to be more negative than positive. Hence, IMHO, the steadily shrinking user base. Most of the positive, friendly folks move on or exist in forum games and user grips exclusively now.

Usually if I try to envision the typical poster here I see the Goth Kids from Southpark, darkness and pain man. Cute but fully predictable.
I was one of those posters that probably came across as "cynical", so perhaps I'll go into greater detail.

it doesn't matter WHO is developing WHAT game, if all you're doing is bragging about quantity, that doesn't mean a damn thing to me, you could make 9 trillion npc's in a jupiter sized planet and have 800 trillion lines of dialogue, but if all they are saying is "bird is the word", then it's absolute shit compared to a 30 minute game with 2 people that have 100 lines of interesting dialogue.

the only reason I cared to comment on it, was bethesda was using that as a bragging point (and they've been touting having alot more dialogue and a voiced protagonist since the games announcement, which is a different direction than their previous games) and when they are bragging about said things, I'm going to critique it, if they didn't use it as touting points, I probably wouldn't have cared to be cynical about it. Hell the witcher 3, which I loved to death, also *slightly* touted about the amount of dialogue they had in the game pre-release, and I was critical about it then, too.

Now from what I've seen so far of fallout 4, I do like it alot, but just because I like certain things doesn't mean I won't be critical of other things that they say, it's about being an informed customer.



The Lunatic said:
Passive aggression has always been an issue on the forums.

Nobody wants these people around, and they're mostly near-banned anyway. Yet, for some reason, nobody had decided that they're just more harm than good at this stage.

Simply, these are members who add nothing to the forum but cause fights and make everyone else feel unwelcome, and yet, they seemingly get a longer leash than everyone else.


Perhaps when, finally, after some of them have been banned for the 4th or 5th time, they'll actually stay that way, but, I can't imagine there will be much forum left for anyone else to enjoy.
Agreed, and you know it's a bit interesting, you could look up the post count on those people and it seems like they never have any actual opinions or interests themselves, all they do is literally go into semi-controversial threads with passive aggressive flamethrowers and just nit pick at posts, rather than addressing anything relevant. Although I suppose they can be genuine when they are patting each other on the back, that happens on occasion.
 
Aug 12, 2013
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Imperioratorex Caprae said:
One thing I'd like to add, if any of you think the gaming community in general is toxic, try your hand at reading some Pro Wrestling forum discussions. Holy fucking shit those people make this forum look like the Kindergarten playground compared to the vile toxicity waiting in that basement. I call it a basement but it has no upper levels, just basements all the way down.
No kidding.
If isn't bitching about how bad the WWE was and is, it's bitching about what TNA did wrong, or how awesome ROH was 7 years ago and now is a shell of it's former self. Or how NXT and Lucha Underground are the best things in wrestling ever.