The Ethics Of Pokemon Evolution....

[DudeistBelieve]

So I just went to the grocery store, saw some chaps smoking outside and I thought to myself about the Pokemon Koffing. We all know Koffing right? That lovable little ball of smog, generally he's portrayed as a happy joyful creature. He smiles. His own battle cry is enthusiastically saying his name "KOFFING!"

Yet when this pokemon evolves into Weezing... It's not only portrayed as unhappy and sickly, as it's name applies it can barely breathe.

Now if we're thinking of these things as actual creatures instead of sprites/stats, can we say it is at all ethical to allow Koffing to his stronger form that doubles as it's personal hell? Because trainers do have a say in the evolutionary process of pokemon, they can cancel it on command by pressing the B button.

Personally I think it's overtly cruel and selfish of any trainer to evolve Koffing. I'm wondering if anyone disagrees and/or can think of another pokemon who's evolution hinders them as oppose to helps them?

I suppose, in an inverse of this, any trainer that doesn't evolve their Psyduck as quickly as possible as complete monsters, as the thing is suffering from horrific headaches.

 

[k7avenger]

That is a world where pokemon happily blow themselves up on the whims of their trainer. I don't think our ideas of ethics really apply there.

 

[BQE]

I think Weezing is called such because the term 'wheezing' is pretty synonymous with 'coughing'. I don't think he's upset or living in sort of perpetual nightmare. The game says that they are living cancers, and beyond that, many Pokemon evolve into more angry forms with grimaces or frowns.

That being said, if I had to choose another creature with these alleged horrible afflictions would be Joltik, that tick that dies should it run out of electricity or some such.

Summarily, I'm really incredibly unconcerned with the welfare of my magical imaginary animals. It's not even an afterthought honestly, the game couldn't be more unbelievable if they tried. Personally, there isn't much about this sensationalized world that makes it remotely attractive to live in.

Interesting perspective though, it's refreshing to see such abstract lines of thought.
Good on you.

 

[TehCookie]

Didn't the anime cover some of that? Pokemon want to evolve to help their owns and to be stronger. In the anime James's Koffing wanted to evolve, and that's your example. Now not every pokemon wants to (see Ash's Pikachu) but I believe it also showed that forced evolution is a bad thing in universe. Pretty sure there was some scheme of Team Rocket forcing Magikarp to evolve, but I think that was in gold/silver.

Also I don't think Wheezing is sickly, it's called wheezing because it sounds like a sick human. But it's not a human so that could be it's normal, healthy breath. Who knows about Pokemon biology.

 

[Asita]

You say that as if you're actually forcing the evolution onto the pokemon. In the world of pokemon evolution is more accurately described as metamorphosis, a natural part of the pokemon's life cycle. You can make a case about 'forcing evolution' when it actually requires external factors (like an elemental stone, for instance), but in pure experience cases the only action you have available to you is preventing the pokemon from changing when it itself is good and ready to do so.

That is a world where pokemon happily blow themselves up on the whims of their trainer. I don't think our ideas of ethics really apply there.

Let me go ahead and fix that for you: That is a world where Pokemon happily blow themselves up regardless of whether or not they have a trainer (Which somehow only results in a fully treatable loss of consciousness, oddly enough). It's what makes wild Voltorbs and Geodudes (after level 29) so terrifying.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I've never cared for Pokemon + ethics. But if you're going to go there, why even bother catching 'em in the first place? Let them run wild and be happy in their freedom, for crying out loud. Attacking random wildlife and brainwashing it into servitude for the sake of your own personal amusement and ego sounds pretty horrible.

Didn't the anime cover some of that? Pokemon want to evolve to help their owns and to be stronger. In the anime James's Koffing wanted to evolve, and that's your example. Now not every pokemon wants to (see Ash's Pikachu) but I believe it also showed that forced evolution is a bad thing in universe. Pretty sure there was some scheme of Team Rocket forcing Magikarp to evolve, but I think that was in gold/silver.

They were causing some chaos over at the Lake of Rage Pokemon through radiowaves, though I'm not sure what exactly it was they were trying to accomplish. Didn't they want to catch the Red Gyarados?

 

[VanQ]

I've never cared for Pokemon + ethics. But if you're going to go there, why even bother catching 'em in the first place? Let them run wild and be happy in their freedom, for crying out loud. Attacking random wildlife and brainwashing it into servitude for the sake of your own personal amusement and ego sounds pretty horrible.

Didn't the anime cover some of that? Pokemon want to evolve to help their owns and to be stronger. In the anime James's Koffing wanted to evolve, and that's your example. Now not every pokemon wants to (see Ash's Pikachu) but I believe it also showed that forced evolution is a bad thing in universe. Pretty sure there was some scheme of Team Rocket forcing Magikarp to evolve, but I think that was in gold/silver.

They were causing some chaos over at the Lake of Rage Pokemon through radiowaves, though I'm not sure what exactly it was they were trying to accomplish. Didn't they want to catch the Red Gyarados?

They were experimenting on forced evolution using radiowaves to force Pokemon to evolve. They just wanted stronger Pokemon without the effort of training them. The red Gyarados was just a side effect that one of the magikarp suffered when it was forced to evolve.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I've never cared for Pokemon + ethics. But if you're going to go there, why even bother catching 'em in the first place? Let them run wild and be happy in their freedom, for crying out loud. Attacking random wildlife and brainwashing it into servitude for the sake of your own personal amusement and ego sounds pretty horrible.

Didn't the anime cover some of that? Pokemon want to evolve to help their owns and to be stronger. In the anime James's Koffing wanted to evolve, and that's your example. Now not every pokemon wants to (see Ash's Pikachu) but I believe it also showed that forced evolution is a bad thing in universe. Pretty sure there was some scheme of Team Rocket forcing Magikarp to evolve, but I think that was in gold/silver.

They were causing some chaos over at the Lake of Rage Pokemon through radiowaves, though I'm not sure what exactly it was they were trying to accomplish. Didn't they want to catch the Red Gyarados?

They were experimenting on forced evolution using radiowaves to force Pokemon to evolve. They just wanted stronger Pokemon without the effort of training them. The red Gyarados was just a side effect that one of the magikarp suffered when it was forced to evolve.

So, airborne Rare Candy waves? I'm down with that.

 

[VanQ]

So, airborne Rare Candy waves? I'm down with that.

I'm not so sure about that. I think it was more that it forced them to evolve as they were if they succumbed. The problem with it was that if Pokemon evolve before they're mature enough (or high enough level in game terms) that it could cause some rather odd or severe physical side effects. Dangerous stuff, basically.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

You say that as if you're actually forcing the evolution onto the pokemon. In the world of pokemon evolution is more accurately described as metamorphosis, a natural part of the pokemon's life cycle. You can make a case about 'forcing evolution' when it actually requires external factors (like an elemental stone, for instance), but in pure experience cases the only action you have available to you is preventing the pokemon from changing when it itself is good and ready to do so.

That is a world where pokemon happily blow themselves up on the whims of their trainer. I don't think our ideas of ethics really apply there.

Let me go ahead and fix that for you: That is a world where Pokemon happily blow themselves up regardless of whether or not they have a trainer (Which somehow only results in a fully treatable loss of consciousness, oddly enough). It's what makes wild Voltorbs and Geodudes (after level 29) so terrifying.

I mean it is forcing though. If I'm catching a pokemon and making it fight for experience so that it evolves, is that not forcing evolution?

Didn't the anime cover some of that? Pokemon want to evolve to help their owns and to be stronger. In the anime James's Koffing wanted to evolve, and that's your example. Now not every pokemon wants to (see Ash's Pikachu) but I believe it also showed that forced evolution is a bad thing in universe. Pretty sure there was some scheme of Team Rocket forcing Magikarp to evolve, but I think that was in gold/silver.

Also I don't think Wheezing is sickly, it's called wheezing because it sounds like a sick human. But it's not a human so that could be it's normal, healthy breath. Who knows about Pokemon biology.

That too is my point. James' Koffing wanted to evolve to be stronger, but at great personal cost to it's own happiness. James should of been a wiser trainer to say no.

 

[k7avenger]

Okay, think about this. When you catch a wild pokemon, what level is it? Its not level 1, that's for sure. Meaning that it has had previous combat experience. In fact, the further in your journey you go, the higher the level the pokemon are, meaning more combat experience.

Pokemon love to fight each other. A lot. And that is before you stuff them into balls.

With this in mind, I imagine every pokemon in the game has a major hard on for getting the chance to evolve. It makes them stronger, and with pokemon's violent tendencies, well you can put 1 and 1 together.

 

[Asita]

I mean it is forcing though. If I'm catching a pokemon and making it fight for experience so that it evolves, is that not forcing evolution?

Nope. At worst it's accelerating the process. Again though, it's a part of their life cycle. You stopping it is more of an oddity than facilitating it is.

 

[Another]

Okay, think about this. When you catch a wild pokemon, what level is it? Its not level 1, that's for sure. Meaning that it has had previous combat experience. In fact, the further in your journey you go, the higher the level the pokemon are, meaning more combat experience.

Pokemon love to fight each other. A lot. And that is before you stuff them into balls.

With this in mind, I imagine every pokemon in the game has a major hard on for getting the chance to evolve. It makes them stronger, and with pokemon's violent tendencies, well you can put 1 and 1 together.

I...never thought of this. And considering that almost every game mentions that you shouldn't go into tall grass without pokemon, doesn't that imply that pokemon will all attack you weather or not you are a trainer? Wow, the entire world of pokemon just wants to beat the living shit out of you.

Man, being a trainer is more like personal defense training if that's the case. "Hey kid! Your ten! Time to go raise some bodyguards!"

 

[Matthewmagic]

Lickylicky... I'm just saying. Lickitounge was bad enough why make it evolve into that... thing.

 

[Raddra]

A lot of pokemon's 'evolutions' are just them growing older / more mature. For example Charmander is essentially a child charizard, a charmeleon is a teenage charizard and then they grow into an adult charizard.

Not all: some do seem to become different things, but with some its blatantly just growing up.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

So, airborne Rare Candy waves? I'm down with that.

I'm not so sure about that. I think it was more that it forced them to evolve as they were if they succumbed. The problem with it was that if Pokemon evolve before they're mature enough (or high enough level in game terms) that it could cause some rather odd or severe physical side effects. Dangerous stuff, basically.

As far as I know, gameplay-wise, the only downside to rushing evolution is that the Pokemon in question may not respond adequately in battle (kind of what happened with Charmeleon in the anime) if evolved prematurely. The Rare Candy mutant effect thing is something that happened once (I think?) on a plot level and never carried over to actual gameplay.

 

[stormeris]

Bah, all this ethics nonsense!
Just look at how miserable Azurill looks before evolving! And how happy he is after!

Spoiler

 

[Scarim Coral]

Err doesn't Koffing evolve by levelling up therefore it has to battle alot? If you really don't want it to evolve you pretty much holding it back or just keep it as a pet? Well ok that is what a Everstone if for.

Now if this was a dicussion about forcing a Pokemon to evolve using a stone (Dusk stone, fire stone etc) now that would be a valid dicussion.

If that is the case the cartoon had pretty much cover it in two ways-
The Pokemon are obedient and will do what his/ her "master" commad meaning it is willing to evolve to beome strong of his/ her master.

The trainer treat his/ her Pokemon as equal meaning he/ she allow it if it does want to evolve or not.


Honestly dicussion like this make me think the way we treat our Pokemon when it come to EV training (I mean you cast aside many breeded Pokemon you deem as "failure" for having the wrong nature to seek out the perfect one and then trained it to the max!).
In saying so the Pokemon is a bunch of pixels which I know it will be highly different if we were training real life Pokemon.

 

[Feraswondervahnn]

I outright refuse to evolve Paras. That is a fate the poor thing does not deserve! Sure, it's just a theory, but it makes more sense than anything else I've heard.

Parasect's growth has been stunted by the mushroom that has resided on its back since birth. The mushrooms sink their spores into the host's brain, giving the parasitic mushroom total control over the Paras. Due to being possessed for so long, the eyes have whited out and the mushroom has drained almost all of the Parasect's life force, which gives the mushrooms the energy to grow into a gross exaggeration of its former size.

Once they are that huge, they take total control of the Parasect's mind, creating a "hivemind" with other host Parasects. To ensure survival, the mushrooms force the Parasect to breed and once the eggs are laid, the mushrooms coat the eggs with their parasitic spores, ensuring their offspring will wind up in the same, dead-eyed and doomed fate they currently have.

Man... Poor Paras...

 

[Jandau]

Isn't Pokemon in general unethical to the extreme if one tries applying real-world standards to it? As in, child abuse, massive animal abuse, potential slavery/trafficking (if we accept Pokemon as sentient), and so on and so forth? So isn't this like one of the least problematic things about the universe?