This topic was birthed by the events of October 23rd, 2019
Impeachment probe deposition under way following Republicans storming hearing room. [https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/23/politics/republicans-storm-impeachment-inquiry-deposition-laura-cooper/index.html]
They are right, you know. [http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/why-the-house-gop-pretending-care-about-the-impeachment-process] The Following is an excerpt from an article on one of the several closed door Benghazi panels.
So, here we are. The people who represent us in our government are the actual equivalent of those playground kids you used to play tag with who always wanted you to go to jail once they tagged you, but would invent rules while your tag didn't matter.
I'm trying to parse the actual decay we all find ourselves here in America.
I mean, we blame these senators and this Administration, but we wouldn't have these people in charge if they didn't get the votes. And we're stuck with people who take in the garbage they spew every day and call it gourmet.
These are just a few [https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/10/22/iowa-voters-impeachment-inquiry-marquez-lead-pkg-vpx.cnn] of the voters who make up this country that can't even parse the fact that the President Breaking the rules of the United States Code is a big deal. These and people like them who believe the Democrats are on a fishing expedition for actually following the law.
The real bomb hasn't even dropped yet, but I feel the Fallout of it now. Truth means nothing any more. We live in a country where people are so ill-informed of the actual gravity of the potential crimes committed that they consider it an annoyance. Laura Hubka, the chair of Howard Country Democratic Party in Iowa (she was featured in the video I just linked to) states that the impeachment process is actually hindering her job trying to convince Independents to vote Democrat.
This is why I always got Pelosi trying to cool everyone down. I freaking hate this Administration. There's so much smoke and the scent of burning foundation coming from it that I'm tired of everyone telling me it's just vaping, bruh.
But if Trump did anything successfully, it was to immediately paint the democrats as sad whiners. Wasn't hard since Obama's tenure, where that was placed on them when they lost control of the House and the Senate. Even though every investigation into trouble lead to actual jail time for people, it was never enough to bring down Trump. It wasn't even enough to slightly tarnish his image in the eyes of his cult. In fact, everything lionized him more. Pelosi rightfully realized that for some reason, Trump's personality is stronger than logic with his masses.
And Time has shown her right. As these people and countless others have shown, Nothing Matters when it comes to Trump. The cult and the loyal believe their indignation more than they believe in the processes to find facts.
So, Trump won't be in office forever. And quite frankly, that fact worries me a great deal. Because the groundwork has been lain already. I fully believe any successful vote for Impeachment will split this nation apart. The cult and the loyal will never accept it.
Even with the facts, there are people actually thinking this is a 'Lynching' even though Trump admitted to doing this a long time ago and frankly going through the process seems asinine to me. Then Mulvaney admitted to it and we're still here. And Taylor explained that he was told that not to say the words 'Quid Pro Quo', but to make them understand that they get nothing unless Ukraine says what Trump wants to hear.
People. Still. Think. This. Is. A. Witch. Hunt.
Even with the admittals, even with testimony, even with the transcripts... There are people who see this evidence and think their Chosen One is being persecuted. I do not see an Successful Impeachment going down peacefully.
That leads to option 2. Impeachment attempt, and nothing coming out of it. The Democrats will lose even more ground. They will be mocked more. They will seem even weaker than before (Again, what Pelosi was worried about), and the ground they lose will be unthinkable. Sure, Trump is an ass that backfired his way through life somehow successfully... But the democrats lost. Meaning they suck worse and people would rather back the winner.
There is nothing but recovery that will have to be done after the Impeachment of the 45th, no matter if the democrats win or if the Republicans win. Space Buddha willing, I'll be in Canada and showering the stank of this nation off of me. But seeing how many people blindly follow this Administration and their tactics along with the amount of independents who just don't care because they aren't directly affected... I can't see anything but negativity from this Impeachment (no matter the results) for a long time to come.
Does anyone else see it differently?
Impeachment probe deposition under way following Republicans storming hearing room. [https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/23/politics/republicans-storm-impeachment-inquiry-deposition-laura-cooper/index.html]
Roughly two-dozen House Republicans on Wednesday stormed a closed-door deposition in secure House Intelligence Committee spaces to rail against the Democratic-led impeachment inquiry, a political stunt ratcheting up the GOP complaints about the process that delayed Wednesday's scheduled deposition for five hours.
The conservative lawmakers, led by Republican Rep. Matt Gaetz of Florida, barged into the deposition and demanded they be allowed to see the closed-door proceedings where members of three committees planned to interview Deputy Assistant Defense Secretary Laura Cooper as part of the impeachment probe into President Donald Trump.
The chaotic scene, with Republicans flouting House rules to make a political point, represented a new and more confrontational phase of the Republican attack on House Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff and the Democratic impeachment investigation.
By early afternoon, pizza and snacks were being brought into the committee area. The Republicans in the committee SCIF - short for a sensitive compartmented information facility -- left around 2 p.m. ET to attend House votes, apparently ending the protest.
The deposition then began around 3 p.m. ET, lawmakers said, a roughly five-hour delay.
A source in the room said that as Cooper was sitting down to testify, the Republicans stormed through the room's three different doors. Rep. Bradley Byrne of Alabama was yelling at Schiff, but the California Democrat did not engage, the source said. Other Democrats, including Rep. Val Demings of Florida, shouted back at both Byrne and Republican Rep. Louie Gohmert of Texas, who were yelling about the process.
Demings, according to one source in the room, asked Republicans if they were trying to teach their children "that it's OK to lie, steal and cheat so long as you don't get caught?"
"Don't you have any work to do today?" she said to one Republican member, according to the source.
Cooper left the room while the Republicans refused to vacate the space. The source says the Capitol Police and sergeant at arms have been consulted as members refuse to leave the room, and lawmakers say there are ongoing negotiations about how to end the standoff.
"It was closest thing I've seen around here to mass civil unrest as a member of Congress," said one source in the room.
Republicans say they forced their way in because Democrats are holding impeachment depositions behind closed doors, denying the public the ability to see what's being said by witnesses that could be used to impeach Trump.
"Show your face where we can all see the travesty that you are trying to foist on America and the degradation of our Republic that you're engaged in," said Rep. Mo Brooks of Alabama.
Rep. Jim Jordan, the top Republican on the Oversight Committee who has been in all of the depositions so far, said the Republican disruption was justified because "it's finally reached a boiling point where members just said they are so frustrated at the idea that they can't be a part of this and see what's going on."
But the GOP complaints about the process - Republicans who have been in the room have made the same argument about public hearings and releasing transcripts following nearly every deposition - comes as Republicans have focused their objections on the process rather than the substance of what the witnesses have said.
Democrats say that Republican complaints about the process are simply unwarranted. Republicans on the three committees - Intelligence, Foreign Affairs and Oversight - have equal time to question witnesses.
Schiff has said that the committee will release transcripts and hold public hearings, but said they are conducting the fact-finding part of the investigation, like a grand jury before a trial, that's done behind closed doors.
He's argued that keeping witness testimony private in the early stages prevents other witnesses from learning what others are saying and aligning their stories.
Democrats also pointed to the Benghazi Select Committee run by former Rep. Trey Gowdy, a South Carolina Republican who conducted closed-door hearings in that investigation.
"This (investigation) clearly has far too much fact for their comfort level, so they have to stop it from moving forward," said Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, a Florida Democrat who was in the room when the Republicans barged in.
Rep. Eric Swalwell, a California Democrat on the Intelligence Committee, said that the Republican tactics would not deter the impeachment investigation.
"The tactics are an effort to delay the inevitable. They are a response to just damaging and pulverizing testimony yesterday," Swalwell said.
They are right, you know. [http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/why-the-house-gop-pretending-care-about-the-impeachment-process] The Following is an excerpt from an article on one of the several closed door Benghazi panels.
In the summer of 2015, the House Select Committee on Benghazi was still chasing conspiracy theories, holding a series of closed-door hearings with officials and witnesses. As part of the investigatory process, other members of Congress who were interested in learning more were excluded ? and when former House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) tried to crash a deposition, Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.) blocked him.
On this, Gowdy, who chaired the Benghazi panel, was correct. Not only did he take steps to prevent a political circus - nearly every witness was interviewed behind closed doors - but House rules only permit members to participate in depositions if they serve on the relevant committees. These are not spectator events.
More than four years later, Issa is no longer in Congress, but the number of far-right lawmakers eager to crash closed-door depositions has grown.
According to Bloomberg News, Donald Trump knew in advance about these far-right members' plan to barge into a secure hearing room - and the president supported the scheme. In fact, The Daily Beast reported that Trump effectively encouraged them to obstruct the impeachment inquiry.
To hear the White House's more ridiculous congressional allies tell it, they're justified in launching stunts like these because hearings related to the impeachment inquiry are being held in secret. At first blush, I imagine some Americans might even think guys like Matt Gaetz and his cohorts have a point: given the importance of the process and the outcome, why is so much work being done behind closed doors?
The truth is, even the most unhinged members of Congress know the answer. They?re only pretending to be dumb. The New York Times recently explained why witnesses are testifying in private:
On this, Gowdy, who chaired the Benghazi panel, was correct. Not only did he take steps to prevent a political circus - nearly every witness was interviewed behind closed doors - but House rules only permit members to participate in depositions if they serve on the relevant committees. These are not spectator events.
More than four years later, Issa is no longer in Congress, but the number of far-right lawmakers eager to crash closed-door depositions has grown.
These House Republicans know the rules, but they broke them anyway as part of a little stunt.A group of House Republicans stormed a secure room where testimony is being heard in the impeachment inquiry on Wednesday, delaying the start of closed-door testimony by Laura Cooper, the top Pentagon official overseeing U.S. policy regarding Ukraine.
Led by Rep. Matt Gaetz, R-Fla., the GOP members - who don't sit on the committees that are questioning witnesses in the impeachment inquiry - entered the secure room, known as a SCIF, in the basement of the Capitol Visitor's Center.
According to Bloomberg News, Donald Trump knew in advance about these far-right members' plan to barge into a secure hearing room - and the president supported the scheme. In fact, The Daily Beast reported that Trump effectively encouraged them to obstruct the impeachment inquiry.
To hear the White House's more ridiculous congressional allies tell it, they're justified in launching stunts like these because hearings related to the impeachment inquiry are being held in secret. At first blush, I imagine some Americans might even think guys like Matt Gaetz and his cohorts have a point: given the importance of the process and the outcome, why is so much work being done behind closed doors?
The truth is, even the most unhinged members of Congress know the answer. They?re only pretending to be dumb. The New York Times recently explained why witnesses are testifying in private:
The Democrats are trying to collect as much information as possible as quickly as possible. Big made-for-TV hearings are a chaotic and clunky way to try to build a body of evidence. They allow witnesses to line up their stories in advance and could easily backfire on Democrats trying to build a public narrative in real time.
Most congressional veterans would tell you that from a fact-finding point of view, you are better off following the Watergate model: Investigate in private first, then choreograph a series of public hearings that recreate for the public what the investigation found.
So, here we are. The people who represent us in our government are the actual equivalent of those playground kids you used to play tag with who always wanted you to go to jail once they tagged you, but would invent rules while your tag didn't matter.
I'm trying to parse the actual decay we all find ourselves here in America.
I mean, we blame these senators and this Administration, but we wouldn't have these people in charge if they didn't get the votes. And we're stuck with people who take in the garbage they spew every day and call it gourmet.
These are just a few [https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/10/22/iowa-voters-impeachment-inquiry-marquez-lead-pkg-vpx.cnn] of the voters who make up this country that can't even parse the fact that the President Breaking the rules of the United States Code is a big deal. These and people like them who believe the Democrats are on a fishing expedition for actually following the law.
The real bomb hasn't even dropped yet, but I feel the Fallout of it now. Truth means nothing any more. We live in a country where people are so ill-informed of the actual gravity of the potential crimes committed that they consider it an annoyance. Laura Hubka, the chair of Howard Country Democratic Party in Iowa (she was featured in the video I just linked to) states that the impeachment process is actually hindering her job trying to convince Independents to vote Democrat.
This is why I always got Pelosi trying to cool everyone down. I freaking hate this Administration. There's so much smoke and the scent of burning foundation coming from it that I'm tired of everyone telling me it's just vaping, bruh.
But if Trump did anything successfully, it was to immediately paint the democrats as sad whiners. Wasn't hard since Obama's tenure, where that was placed on them when they lost control of the House and the Senate. Even though every investigation into trouble lead to actual jail time for people, it was never enough to bring down Trump. It wasn't even enough to slightly tarnish his image in the eyes of his cult. In fact, everything lionized him more. Pelosi rightfully realized that for some reason, Trump's personality is stronger than logic with his masses.
And Time has shown her right. As these people and countless others have shown, Nothing Matters when it comes to Trump. The cult and the loyal believe their indignation more than they believe in the processes to find facts.
So, Trump won't be in office forever. And quite frankly, that fact worries me a great deal. Because the groundwork has been lain already. I fully believe any successful vote for Impeachment will split this nation apart. The cult and the loyal will never accept it.
Even with the facts, there are people actually thinking this is a 'Lynching' even though Trump admitted to doing this a long time ago and frankly going through the process seems asinine to me. Then Mulvaney admitted to it and we're still here. And Taylor explained that he was told that not to say the words 'Quid Pro Quo', but to make them understand that they get nothing unless Ukraine says what Trump wants to hear.
People. Still. Think. This. Is. A. Witch. Hunt.
Even with the admittals, even with testimony, even with the transcripts... There are people who see this evidence and think their Chosen One is being persecuted. I do not see an Successful Impeachment going down peacefully.
That leads to option 2. Impeachment attempt, and nothing coming out of it. The Democrats will lose even more ground. They will be mocked more. They will seem even weaker than before (Again, what Pelosi was worried about), and the ground they lose will be unthinkable. Sure, Trump is an ass that backfired his way through life somehow successfully... But the democrats lost. Meaning they suck worse and people would rather back the winner.
There is nothing but recovery that will have to be done after the Impeachment of the 45th, no matter if the democrats win or if the Republicans win. Space Buddha willing, I'll be in Canada and showering the stank of this nation off of me. But seeing how many people blindly follow this Administration and their tactics along with the amount of independents who just don't care because they aren't directly affected... I can't see anything but negativity from this Impeachment (no matter the results) for a long time to come.
Does anyone else see it differently?