The Felicia Day/Destructoid situation

[ReinWeisserRitter]

Oh, please. If things were the other way around, she'd still have her job today. This is silly.

 

[dreadedcandiru99]

I think the thread has said all that's need to be said...

No kidding. Sixteen pages? I don't think any of the ME3 ending threads made it to sixteen pages...

 

[marche45]

Personally,i've never heard of any of these people before today(though i've heard her work in New Vegas.)
Probably going to get some flak for this,but here are my two cents.

1. If your going to have an opinion,thats fine.However if you post it on a social media site,you've got to realize that it could reflect badly on your employers(especially if you are a journalist.)He is a grown man so i expect him to take responsibility for that.

2. I'd like to think that anyone who purchases games(or play them really) contributes to the game industry as a whole.As a voice actor she has actually contributed to the creative process,that is a contribution in my book.

3. Does it matter if she contributed or not?Its not like she proclaims herself to be the messiah of gaming(Though admittedly know little about her) but what i do know is that her main field is acting.I don't really understand the dudes point.

4. It doesn't seem all that sexist.No,Will Wheaton and the like don't receive this type of rude behaviors from random journalists.Then again,i don't remember the last time somebody went on twitter and went on a random tirade against anybody in the industry.

Well thats about it.
*Flame suit on*

 

[Nomanslander]

Nobody asks a question like that expecting an answer. It's rhetorical, a concept you don't seem to understand. The only reason he posted that was to either piss of Felicia Day or to rile up fanboys. He did both, but he also pissed off a lot more people than just fanboys.

Some of the white-knighting has gotten out of hand, but the guy deserves to be fired if he can't understand the consequences of his actions and/or do a little freaking research.

My reactions at the time was a bit rash and volatile I'll admit to it. I didn't know the man's prior history of saying stupid shit nor the fact he worked in journalism. On those accounts I've accepted that maybe being fired wasn't as unjustified as I previously thought.

But I still believe in the industry--any industry really, people should be given the chance to apologize and be forgiven at least once. To be immediately terminated and not given any chance to redeem oneself is not only harsh but straight up cruel in my book, and it does nothing but build passive aggressive animosity and fear within a work place.

Question? How would you feel if you were constantly monitors for every word you said and not given a chance to explain yourself when you fucked-up. I mean isn't human nature to fuck-up some times? And to be penalized for that--well? I don't know what to say.

There's a difference between every word said and every word said PUBLICLY. I don't care about your opinions when you talk amongst friends or in private places, but if you put something out publicly that I take issue with, I have every right to respond.

If a politician got drunk one night and posted on a blog or said in an impromptu interview that he honestly hates black people, do you expect him to get reelected? If you're going to say something to everyone, you damn well better be willing to defend it. If you can't, don't say it at all.

No, I agree there. Like I said I didn't know if the man was a journalist, but if you're job has nothing to do with your opinion and how they can effect your job and people around you (like a politicians would), than how does it matter? If I'm a game tester and I speak negatively towards Obama's administrations, should I be fired over it? Even though politics can be a very touchy subject matter in general like religion.

But it's true, the man was working in journalism, so his opinion does hold weight. But even then, I just believe people should be given a chance to apologize. =/

 

[deth2munkies]

Nobody asks a question like that expecting an answer. It's rhetorical, a concept you don't seem to understand. The only reason he posted that was to either piss of Felicia Day or to rile up fanboys. He did both, but he also pissed off a lot more people than just fanboys.

Some of the white-knighting has gotten out of hand, but the guy deserves to be fired if he can't understand the consequences of his actions and/or do a little freaking research.

My reactions at the time was a bit rash and volatile I'll admit to it. I didn't know the man's prior history of saying stupid shit nor the fact he worked in journalism. On those accounts I've accepted that maybe being fired wasn't as unjustified as I previously thought.

But I still believe in the industry--any industry really, people should be given the chance to apologize and be forgiven at least once. To be immediately terminated and not given any chance to redeem oneself is not only harsh but straight up cruel in my book, and it does nothing but build passive aggressive animosity and fear within a work place.

Question? How would you feel if you were constantly monitors for every word you said and not given a chance to explain yourself when you fucked-up. I mean isn't human nature to fuck-up some times? And to be penalized for that--well? I don't know what to say.

There's a difference between every word said and every word said PUBLICLY. I don't care about your opinions when you talk amongst friends or in private places, but if you put something out publicly that I take issue with, I have every right to respond.

If a politician got drunk one night and posted on a blog or said in an impromptu interview that he honestly hates black people, do you expect him to get reelected? If you're going to say something to everyone, you damn well better be willing to defend it. If you can't, don't say it at all.

No, I agree there. Like I said I didn't know if the man was a journalist, but if you're job has nothing to do with your opinion and how they can effect your job and people around you (like a politicians would), than how does it matter? If I'm a game tester and I speak negatively towards Obama's administrations, should I be fired over it? Even though politics can be a very touchy subject matter in general like religion.

But it's true, the man was working in journalism, so his opinion does hold weight. But even then, I just believe people should be given a chance to apologize. =/

Apologizing doesn't absolve you of guilt, you still face consequences for your words and actions. The argument over the punishment being too severe is up to you, but given the internet's penchant for backlash towards this sort of behavior, a business that makes its entire revenue stream off the internet would be remiss to keep a person like him around.

Besides, he DID apologize on Twitter several times.

 

[easternflame]

There are a couple of things. I think that he didn't need to loose his job because he has the right to express his opinion, however I do think that he could've worked on the delivery. I mean, Glorified booth babe is not the best way to start a discussion.

Actually, he lost his job because when people defended her, a little switch flipped in his brain that changed his mode of thinking from, "Petulant Douche" to "Duke of Angryfuck."

Well that's that then.

 

[Karadalis]

First the spoony one now this guy.. sheesh..

Why are people still using twitter? It seems to have a negative impact on employment status....

Or maybe its people not realizing that sometimes the internetz are indeed "srs buziness!"

Lay of da twitter man! Cause if you cant shut up it might just cost you your job.

 

[General Twinkletoes]

Perez' question carries undercurrents of sexism because it implies that he thinks any woman who works on the public/promotional side of the games industry is nothing more than a pretty face and an empty smile handing out cheap swag to drooling men and boys.

But it doesn't. It carries a whole river of implications directed at Day and only Day. If you want to explain exactly how his tweets carry "undercurrents of sexism" then please go ahead, but I doubt anything valid will come out of it.

It's another case of people seeing sexism when they want to see it and ignoring it when it's actually present, but inconvenient for them.

Because she probably does more for gaming then he ever will? There are plenty of guys who do very similar things to Day that people love, but because she's a woman people get pissed off, because apparently girls aren't allowed to do that. Just think about it, how much does this perez guy actually help gaming any more than Felicia?
Not at all.

There's a recent example on this thread that I already posted, about a news show on youtube. The previous male anchor had to leave, and they replaced him with an attractive woman. Never mind that this woman has a ridiculous resume when it comes to games journalism, knows her shit and is one of the best people to do the show, people hated on her, calling her a glorified booth babe. Keep in mind that the male host was also very attractive to people that like guys, but do you think anyone would call him a glorified booth babe?
Women who take part in games culture are often singled out if they don't devote their entire lives to games, even though there are plenty of guys who do the exact same thing.

 

[Nomanslander]

If I'm a game tester and I speak negatively towards Obama's administrations, should I be fired over it?

That depends. Have you made it public knowledge through, let's say... Facebook that you are working as a full-time beta tester for a game company? If so, are you saying on your Facebook page that you disagree with Obama because (insert calmly explained rational thoughts here)? Or are you saying that you disagree with him because (insert crazed polemic bullshit with possible racial slurs and/or conspiracy theory that he's not a US citizen here)?

Well, that's a topic that really doesn't have a right or wrong; not yet. It's more of an opinion and opinions are not easily persuaded. =/

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

How about Nolan North? He's pretty visible as a voice actor & is involved in the promotion of games he's in. People apparently find him attractive. Does he ever get shit being an attractive person of his sex participating in the industry?

Don't call someone out for a flawed argument premise and make one yourself: Nolan North is a somewhat talented voice actor who has a crap-load of work to his name. Felicia Day has four voice credits total, and is more known as a film actress. An actress who has played approximately one character in all her appearances.

Now, was the guy a dick? yes. Should he have been fired? Not unless this was an official twitter, or a personal one being used in a professional capacity. Should he have been disciplined? Certainly. Has Felicia Day contributed anything to the medium besides a solid marketing strategy? Debatable.

more important is why anyone is covering this. This is one man's fuckup, to be dealt with by himself, his employers, and Ms. Day.
We, as people not involved shouldn't be talking about it.

 

[General Twinkletoes]

Because she probably does more for gaming then he ever will? There are plenty of guys who do very similar things to Day that people love, but because she's a woman people get pissed off, because apparently girls aren't allowed to do that. Just think about it, how much does this perez guy actually help gaming any more than Felicia?
Not at all.

Yeah... Sorry, still not seeing the sexism. How valid his question is and what the proper answer would be is debatable (and for the record, I think it's a really stupid question) but it's not a sexist thing to ask.

If anything, the only gender inequality I see here is how pissed people are getting. If someone had stated the same question to, say, JDD, there wouldn't have been an uproar.

It wasn't really the comment, but the fact he asked it in the first place, and only her. Plenty of guys, including him, give less to the industry than she does.

There's a recent example on this thread that I already posted, about a news show on youtube. The previous male anchor had to leave, and they replaced him with an attractive woman. Never mind that this woman has a ridiculous resume when it comes to games journalism, knows her shit and is one of the best people to do the show, people hated on her, calling her a glorified booth babe. Keep in mind that the male host was also very attractive to people that like guys, but do you think anyone would call him a glorified booth babe?

That's a very nice story and it's totally fascinating (not really, pricks acting like pricks again, nothing more nothing less) but it's still irrelevant to this discussion, which is about Perez and his tweets.

Well it is kind of relevant. If a woman takes the same place as a man, she's expected to prove herself while guys are just accepted. It's judging by gender in both cases, which sounds an awful lot like sexism to me.

 

[Celi]

I'm a bit late here, but reading his tweet I feel like I'm missing something. Have people been lauding Day as the gaming industry's Second Coming or something? I mean, I can easily see that this guy is an idiot, but it's strange that even an idiot would just say this out of the blue. Did something happen to lead into this or did he just say that for no reason?

 

[Savagezion]

Haha, the gaming Internet and sexism today. I don't think most people know what sexism is anymore. He got fired because Felecia Day has a LOT more fans in the gaming community (Destructoids audience) than he could ever hope to. That has more to do with his termination than any comment said. The only part that could even be interpreted as sexist in there is the booth babe thing but in an industry that supports booth babes, it is a totally valid and non sexist remark. It's comparing her relevancy to a sexist part of the industry already. I hate this new "everything is sexist" movement going through the industry. Some people need to learn what sexism is before accusing everyone of it.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

How about Nolan North? He's pretty visible as a voice actor & is involved in the promotion of games he's in. People apparently find him attractive. Does he ever get shit being an attractive person of his sex participating in the industry?

Don't call someone out for a flawed argument premise and make one yourself: Nolan North is a somewhat talented voice actor who has a crap-load of work to his name. Felicia Day has four voice credits total, and is more known as a film actress. An actress who has played approximately one character in all her appearances.

Now, was the guy a dick? yes. Should he have been fired? Not unless this was an official twitter, or a personal one being used in a professional capacity. Should he have been disciplined? Certainly. Has Felicia Day contributed anything to the medium besides a solid marketing strategy? Debatable.

more important is why anyone is covering this. This is one man's fuckup, to be dealt with by himself, his employers, and Ms. Day.
We, as people not involved shouldn't be talking about it.

Four voice credits and keeping the discussion about gaming alive is still more then the guy who made the original tweet. Whatever or not Felicia Day is a talented actress is beside the point, the point is that this kind of spiteful opinion is never seen leveraged against men. The whole "glorified booth babe" opinion is inherently sexist because it somehow assumes that Felicia Day is only a "celebrity" within gaming because she looks good (and last time I checked, most gamers are still discussing whatever she is or not) and that any other thing, like her voice work, was only landed because she looks good.

You don't need to go into hardcore feminism mode to see how his tweets had a sexist undertone, even if that wasn't their primary message. In fact, just remove the "personality" remark and booth babe sentence out of his original tweet and look at it again. Far less sexist while still retaining his "criticism" against Felicia Day. This is how sexism is perpetuated, not by conscious decisions to "put some bitches down" but by unconscious choices of words, sloppily thought through criticism against professional women ("Are you just a glorified booth babe?" seriously, who can't see the sexism in that?) and lots of people who doesn't see the sexism because it is so extremly common that we don't think much about it.

Consider: If Perez would have wanted to "criticize" Nolan North in the same way, would Mr. North's looks even have been mentioned? Or would the remarks be about what a worthless voice actor he is?

 

[Hatchetman]

Sounds like some nobody tried to make a name for himself by slamming someone famous because he thought he could get some followers that way and it backfired. I don't think it goes any farther than that.

 

[Kahunaburger]

How about Nolan North? He's pretty visible as a voice actor & is involved in the promotion of games he's in. People apparently find him attractive. Does he ever get shit being an attractive person of his sex participating in the industry?

Don't call someone out for a flawed argument premise and make one yourself: Nolan North is a somewhat talented voice actor who has a crap-load of work to his name. Felicia Day has four voice credits total, and is more known as a film actress. An actress who has played approximately one character in all her appearances.

Well, if (in your mind) experience with video game voice acting mean that Nolan North is liek so differant guise from Felicia Day that we can't use him as an analogy, how about Nathan Fillion? Or Will Wheaton? Or Vin Deisel? All were brought up multiple times by multiple people in this thread, none had would-be games journalists calling them "glorified booth babes."

Why? Because this sort of attack is a sadly common one that is aimed pretty much exclusively at women, not just in the games industry.

 

[ninjaRiv]

Well, doesn't she at least add the same amount to the medium as the people who post "Let's Play" videos? And game journalists? Besides that, she's an actress. She contributes the same amount as an accountant who really likes games. He was a dick, I think that's a good enough reason to dislike him.

But I don't think it has anything to do with sexism. Just one guy thinking he's being a cool journalist. Maybe he has been reading Hunter S Thompson books lately or something.

 

[Kahunaburger]

The only part that could even be interpreted as sexist in there is the booth babe thing but in an industry that supports booth babes, it is a totally valid and non sexist remark.

However, he was using "glorified booth babe" as an insult. Which, in the context of what you pointed out, is interesting. What does it say about the "gaming community" when most major gaming events are staffed by scantily-clad female staff but said scantily-clad female staff are disrespected to the point that comparison to one is an insult?

 

[somonels]

Hmm... I wonder what Ryan Perez has "provided to gaming." Oh, wait, nobody asks that question because he has a Y chromosome and it's not a good question.

You seem to be woefully misguided - Ryan's importance is unquestioned because nobody cares, though that may be due to his Y chromosome. Who's sexist now, internet? You are, that's who.

No, he does not deserve to be fired for his personal opinions and should seek legal compensation for his termination. This is 'theh internetz' being 'theh internetz' and D-structioid's D-amagecontrol.

 

[Hjalmar Fryklund]

The only part that could even be interpreted as sexist in there is the booth babe thing but in an industry that supports booth babes, it is a totally valid and non sexist remark.

However, he was using "glorified booth babe" as an insult. Which, in the context of what you pointed out, is interesting. What does it say about the "gaming community" when most major gaming events are staffed by scantily-clad female staff but said scantily-clad female staff are disrespected to the point that comparison to one is an insult?

There are contradictory reasons for that, but of them can be partially explained by this stereotype:

Spoiler

Now add in the ingredient that parts of the "gaming community" (vad fan that means) want that sort of stereotype to be done away with. Booth babes suddenly seem like acceptable targets, and for some jerks, any female gamer that dares to wear something even a little revealing in a game related show.