The Felicia Day/Destructoid situation

[newdarkcloud]

Or...it's someone questioning someone's perceived over-representation in a medium, and nowhere near as one sided as you put it. I'm sure he knew about her and her contributions, and felt sick off seeing her so much in place of people he felt were more deserving. This is his opinion, no matter how inflammatory it obviously is, and he has the right to express it.

Yes, he has the right to express his inflammatory opinion. However, we have the right to call him a dumbass and a douchebag for expressing it and Destructoid has the right to fire him for it. The "rights" argument doesn't hold water. Nobody's arguing whether he COULD've done it, but whether he SHOULD've done it.

Yeah, and I think firing is taking it too far, and wouldn't happened was it not for the huge white knight misogyny witch hunt at the moment, and no one would have given a fuck had he said this about a guy. THAT's why I think it's fucked up.

Perhaps, but there's a bit more to it than that. This guy was going to be a contributor to Destructoid. This means that he would've become a public figure that represents them and their image in his public persona (we can argue over whether this is right or wrong, but it is still true). When you represent a company and become a public figure, it's a whole new ball game. Everything you do is a reflection on who you represent. If Destructoid felt like what he was saying is representing them in a negative way, then firing him is really the only recourse they have to protect their image. It's the difference between getting tweets from a well-known contributor and getting tweets from Larry the newsroom janitor.

 

[Riff Moonraker]

Also, the guy is totally a douche

https://twitter.com/PissedOffRyno/status/219343681575063552

It doesnt matter. If he made the comments on his personal twitter account, its bullshit that he got fired from his job for it. It doesnt matter if what he said was true, or not, it was his PERSONAL twitter account. Sure, Felicia Day seems to be a great person, and all... but everyone is entitled to their own personal opinions on their own personal media device, or whatever you would call it.

 

[MrBaskerville]

She´s a host, does she need to contribute anything except for hosting?

Damn, thought she was someone else, so she´s an actor and a voice actor, why does she need to contribute with more than that.

 

[Eyelicker]

Or...it's someone questioning someone's perceived over-representation in a medium, and nowhere near as one sided as you put it. I'm sure he knew about her and her contributions, and felt sick off seeing her so much in place of people he felt were more deserving. This is his opinion, no matter how inflammatory it obviously is, and he has the right to express it.

Yes, he has the right to express his inflammatory opinion. However, we have the right to call him a dumbass and a douchebag for expressing it and Destructoid has the right to fire him for it. The "rights" argument doesn't hold water. Nobody's arguing whether he COULD've done it, but whether he SHOULD've done it.

Yeah, and I think firing is taking it too far, and wouldn't happened was it not for the huge white knight misogyny witch hunt at the moment, and no one would have given a fuck had he said this about a guy. THAT's why I think it's fucked up.

Perhaps, but there's a bit more to it than that. This guy was going to be a contributor to Destructoid. This means that he would've become a public figure that represents them and their image in his public persona (we can argue over whether this is right or wrong, but it is still true). When you represent a company and become a public figure, it's a whole new ball game. Everything you do is a reflection on who you represent. If Destructoid felt like what he was saying is representing them in a negative way, then firing him is really the only recourse they have to protect their image. It's the difference between getting tweets from a well-known contributor and getting tweets from Larry the newsroom janitor.

As a journalist you generally represent yourself. I know yahtzee doesn't represent the escapist. Also, since when was journalism about sucking up and being nice to everyone. It's about perspectives and opinions. This is no better than that guy getting fired for giving Kane and Lynch a bad review. Well known journalist's put famous people on blast all the time.

This also sets a precedent for gaming journalism to become a big circle jerk of niceness, where no one famous can be critisised for fear of this kind of thing. 10-fold if you're getting at a female.

 

[chimeracreator]

Might be offensive but it could also be a valid point. Part of journalism is also making valid points.

Yes, but part of journalism is also knowing how to say things correctly and to walk the thin line between asking the tough questions and attacking others. He crossed that line and failed to ask the question correctly. As such, he lost his job even though he was doing this using his personal twitter account.

It doesnt matter. If he made the comments on his personal twitter account, its bullshit that he got fired from his job for it. It doesnt matter if what he said was true, or not, it was his PERSONAL twitter account. Sure, Felicia Day seems to be a great person, and all... but everyone is entitled to their own personal opinions on their own personal media device, or whatever you would call it.

Sort of, everyone entitled to their own opinion and their own devices in private, but he chose to make all of this public. Consider the following: You're a newly hired junior salesman for a firm with a few dozen major clients. When you leave work one day you see someone who works for one of your major clients and you get your buddy to record you punching them in the face and then post the video to YouTube while shouting your name. The client sees this video, your employer sees this video and none of them want anything to do with you anymore. So they fire you despite the employee who was punched never pressing charges.

Yes, you have a right to have a YouTube page and a phone that can record videos for it, but if you're an idiot about how you use these to present yourself to the world at large there can be consequences.

Catcha: "know your rights", sometimes I love these things

 

[Eyelicker]

Might be offensive but it could also be a valid point. Part of journalism is also making valid points.

Yes, but part of journalism is also knowing how to say things correctly and to walk the thin line between asking the tough questions and attacking others. He crossed that line and failed to ask the question correctly. As such, he lost his job even though he was doing this using his personal twitter account.

Looked like a question to me! But then the white knight reaction begins and Whooosh!

 

[chimeracreator]

Looked like a question to me! But then the white knight reaction begins and Whooosh!

What's white knighting about pointing out that if a journalist who offends key demographics or sources loses their job? There's a reason that real news anchors talk to dictators, madmen, scientists and movie stars with a straight face and in a respectable manner, it's their job.

 

[Nami nom noms]

Felicia day is just an actress who likes videogames, and a bunch of nerds fantasise over.

Why SHOULD she need to contribute something to gaming? It's not a legal requirement.

 

[newdarkcloud]

Or...it's someone questioning someone's perceived over-representation in a medium, and nowhere near as one sided as you put it. I'm sure he knew about her and her contributions, and felt sick off seeing her so much in place of people he felt were more deserving. This is his opinion, no matter how inflammatory it obviously is, and he has the right to express it.

Yes, he has the right to express his inflammatory opinion. However, we have the right to call him a dumbass and a douchebag for expressing it and Destructoid has the right to fire him for it. The "rights" argument doesn't hold water. Nobody's arguing whether he COULD've done it, but whether he SHOULD've done it.

Yeah, and I think firing is taking it too far, and wouldn't happened was it not for the huge white knight misogyny witch hunt at the moment, and no one would have given a fuck had he said this about a guy. THAT's why I think it's fucked up.

Perhaps, but there's a bit more to it than that. This guy was going to be a contributor to Destructoid. This means that he would've become a public figure that represents them and their image in his public persona (we can argue over whether this is right or wrong, but it is still true). When you represent a company and become a public figure, it's a whole new ball game. Everything you do is a reflection on who you represent. If Destructoid felt like what he was saying is representing them in a negative way, then firing him is really the only recourse they have to protect their image. It's the difference between getting tweets from a well-known contributor and getting tweets from Larry the newsroom janitor.

As a journalist you generally represent yourself. I know yahtzee doesn't represent the escapist. Also, since when was journalism about sucking up and being nice to everyone. It's about perspectives and opinions. This is no better than that guy getting fired for giving Kane and Lynch a bad review. Well known journalist's put famous people on blast all the time.

This also sets a precedent for gaming journalism to become a big circle jerk of niceness, where no one famous can be critisised for fear of this kind of thing. 10-fold if you're getting at a female.

For the record, I'm not against his comments themselves, rather the tone he used. I'm okay with a dissenting opinion, but he couldn't used more tact when expressive it instead of going up to her Twitter and asking "Hey, why do you matter you glorified booth babe?". Nothing valuable is added to the discussion by that.

And I'd say that Yathzee does represent the Escapist on some level. Most of the contributors do. Loading Ready Run, MovieBob, the Escapist News Room Staff, Chris, Kyle, and Dan all represent the Escapist by virtue of being contributors. They all have different personalities and opinions, but when the Escapist picked them to be content providers, they are vouching for their characters and integrity. When they don't show restraint or tact, it reflects negatively on The Escapist.

We saw this with the MovieBob fiasco when Mass Effect 3 came out. The way he talked about some of Mass Effect's fanbase came off to some people as condescending and rude. This reflected on the Escapist as seen by many of the forum posts from that time period. His opinion did have some merit, but the way he presented it came across the wrong way.

 

[kayo of the Well]

.

 

[LiquidGrape]

Man, watching people like Wil Wheaton and Adam Baldwin tell this guy to grow up and get lost is some of the best entertainment I've had in a while.

Oh, and yes, like it or not this is indicative of an endemic sexist attitude. This guy wanted a woman with an actually quite active role in gaming culture (whether you like her output or not is really irrelevant) to legitimise her existence to him for no discernible motivation beyond her sex.
He's not the first person who've made such remarks, and he won't be the last.

 

[CommanderL]

Also, the guy is totally a douche

https://twitter.com/PissedOffRyno/status/219343681575063552

It doesnt matter. If he made the comments on his personal twitter account, its bullshit that he got fired from his job for it. It doesnt matter if what he said was true, or not, it was his PERSONAL twitter account. Sure, Felicia Day seems to be a great person, and all... but everyone is entitled to their own personal opinions on their own personal media device, or whatever you would call it.

It may be his personal twitter account But Twitter is not a private thing twitter is PUBLIC and everything you say is PUBLIC so if you bad mouth someone in PUBLIC its going to bite you in the ass

capchta high horse

 

[everythingbeeps]

Felicia Day has yet to make any kind of decent contribution to gaming. She's done some voice-overs and otherwise have yet to do anything to earn the attention and pay she's gotten. She's been riding the "hurr durr girl that acknowledges the existence of gamer geeks, must adore!" train pretty much from the beginning.

The reason pointing out that she's nothing but a glorified booth babe isn't sexist is simple: She is nothing but a glorified booth babe. Insane feminists have somehow managed to make it a bad thing to point out that some women just coast along on their tits and giggles, like Felicia Day.

Yeah sure, that's a question or accusation that is fairly unique to women but guess what? That's because women are the only ones who do get to do it! Men actually have to work for their positions and there's nothing sexist in demanding that women have to do the same.

^^^ Another person who has no idea who Felicia Day is.

There's a wider world out there son. Go experience it. She's done a ton of shit.

 

[Aprilgold]

Well, if we asked the reverse question what has he contributed? What has he done that changed the industry? Why should we care about him?

 

[Susan Arendt]

Or...it's someone questioning someone's perceived over-representation in a medium, and nowhere near as one sided as you put it. I'm sure he knew about her and her contributions, and felt sick off seeing her so much in place of people he felt were more deserving. This is his opinion, no matter how inflammatory it obviously is, and he has the right to express it.

Yes, he has the right to express his inflammatory opinion. However, we have the right to call him a dumbass and a douchebag for expressing it and Destructoid has the right to fire him for it. The "rights" argument doesn't hold water. Nobody's arguing whether he COULD've done it, but whether he SHOULD've done it.

Yeah, and I think firing is taking it too far, and wouldn't happened was it not for the huge white knight misogyny witch hunt at the moment, and no one would have given a fuck had he said this about a guy. THAT's why I think it's fucked up.

Perhaps, but there's a bit more to it than that. This guy was going to be a contributor to Destructoid. This means that he would've become a public figure that represents them and their image in his public persona (we can argue over whether this is right or wrong, but it is still true). When you represent a company and become a public figure, it's a whole new ball game. Everything you do is a reflection on who you represent. If Destructoid felt like what he was saying is representing them in a negative way, then firing him is really the only recourse they have to protect their image. It's the difference between getting tweets from a well-known contributor and getting tweets from Larry the newsroom janitor.

As a journalist you generally represent yourself. I know yahtzee doesn't represent the escapist. Also, since when was journalism about sucking up and being nice to everyone. It's about perspectives and opinions. This is no better than that guy getting fired for giving Kane and Lynch a bad review. Well known journalist's put famous people on blast all the time.

This also sets a precedent for gaming journalism to become a big circle jerk of niceness, where no one famous can be critisised for fear of this kind of thing. 10-fold if you're getting at a female.

For the record, I'm not against his comments themselves, rather the tone he used. I'm okay with a dissenting opinion, but he couldn't used more tact when expressive it instead of going up to her Twitter and asking "Hey, why do you matter you glorified booth babe?". Nothing valuable is added to the discussion by that.

And I'd say that Yathzee does represent the Escapist on some level. Most of the contributors do. Loading Ready Run, MovieBob, the Escapist News Room Staff, Chris, Kyle, and Dan all represent the Escapist by virtue of being contributors. They all have different personalities and opinions, but when the Escapist picked them to be content providers, they are vouching for their characters and integrity. When they don't show restraint or tact, it reflects negatively on The Escapist.

We saw this with the MovieBob fiasco when Mass Effect 3 came out. The way he talked about some of Mass Effect's fanbase came off to some people as condescending and rude. This reflected on the Escapist as seen by many of the forum posts from that time period. His opinion did have some merit, but the way he presented it came across the wrong way.

A better example would be if, say, I or Steve Butts or Greg Tito made snarky comments about...I dunno, Gabe Newell or something on Twitter. Contributors still have a certain amount of distance from The Escapist - it's pretty clear that we don't necessarily share whatever opinions they put forth in their content. But in-house staff is something else.

For the record, I don't think Ryan's comments were sexist, just ill-advised and ill-informed. Plus, the way he chose to handle the situation once his gaffe had been pointed out to him really sealed the deal. He acted like an ass, and then cranked up the assiness to 11 once the furor started.

Yes, your Twitter account is your own, but a big part of your job is knowing how to comport yourself. Wondering whether there's any substance to Day's celebrity is a perfectly valid line of inquiry, but knowing how and when to ask the question matters.

 

[Evan Waters]

Holly wood is full of acters and actress in restruants who are never infrount of camra or who do theator. She's infrount of a camra becuase she pretty.

If that was all it took, there would be a lot more successful actresses than there are.

(And if it was required, character actors would not exist.)

Paris Hilton and the Kardashions even Jersy shore all beg to differ. They are infrount of the camra and have no real talent beside being train wrecks. The actress who plays bloodrayne or even the resident evil movies. Thier not great but they still get work. One becuase she's the wife of the director and he married her becuase he though she was pretty.

You're misreading my argument. If that were truly ALL that it took, there'd be hundreds of famous actresses. That hot girl you see on the street? She'd get a movie deal. That one cute waitress? Sitcom. That doesn't happen because in Hollywood, beautiful people are a dime a dozen.

Paris Hilton- to the extent that she acts anymore- got on TV because she was an heiress and a prominent figure on the party circuit before making a sex tape. Her reputation as a wild party girl got her a reality show. The Kardashians got where they are through ruthless exploitation of the gossip and media circles. It may not be great work but it wasn't just "they're pretty"- it helped but it wasn't everything.

 

[felbot]

i do wonder how long it takes for this thread to reach +1000 posts.

anyways i am not sure why felicia didnt just mention her voice acting jobs when the guy asked the question, just say something like "oh i have done voice acting for fallout new vegas and i have done a very good web series about wow", seems simple.

i certainly dont think he should have lost his job over this one question.

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

That's kind of dumb.
Why on earth would you single someone out and be like `justify your existance to me!`.
Sounds like a bit of a prick.

Because If you're a guy who likes games, it's your misogynistic duty to ask any woman in the gaming biz that question, to make sure they have a reason for being out of the kitchen.

(I like Felicia Day, Okay, so I'm gonna jump on the "He's probably sexist" Bandwagon. He's a tool, and he's probably sexist, but I'm not sure if this particular instant was far enough on the line to be sexist. But saying that he is lets me make more jokes about chauvanism.)