The Final Boss
- Thread starter Shamus Young
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Good article Shamus, but I must ask, when you referred to Phantom Menace, was that the game or the movie?
I ask simply because although I enjoyed that game greatly myself despite its flaws, I'm yet to find someone else who even remembers it.
I ask simply because although I enjoyed that game greatly myself despite its flaws, I'm yet to find someone else who even remembers it.
Ah, well the game involved running into Maul's lightsaber a good 15 or so times before finally beating him.Shamus Young said:
More than anything, this article has made me realize that, while I greatly enjoy stories in games AND sadistically difficult challenges, I'm too well adjusted to the quirks of video game narratives colliding with gameplay to care that the story has been "ruined" by a inconsistency caused by my characters temporary death. No matter how great a game's story, there is very few ways they could capture the same emotional arc of a two hour movie without throwing gameplay completely out the window and basically ending the game with a two hour movie. Thankfully, I think many people are capable of editing their game experience in their heads, cutting out the inconsistent parts and appreciating the progression of the game had it been completed flawlessly.
I like final bosses to take me a few tries, as long as I feel like I'm doing better each time. Drama is important also, but gets ruined by an easy boss.
As an example, Ganondorf from Zelda: Twilight Princess. Looks at you, says something along the lines of "you call that little thing a sword?", then pulls out an awesome, badass-looking sword about twice the size of yours, and proceeds to deal...
1/2 a point of damage with it.
Fail.
As an example, Ganondorf from Zelda: Twilight Princess. Looks at you, says something along the lines of "you call that little thing a sword?", then pulls out an awesome, badass-looking sword about twice the size of yours, and proceeds to deal...
1/2 a point of damage with it.
Fail.
I think I'm mostly Heroic, but I'll lean Skilled on some occasions.
As for the endings, some do it well.
As for the endings, some do it well.
You can, for narrative purposes, convince Saren to kill himself. Then you fight his reanimated corpse. It works.
I'm a little of column A and a little of column B, I like having a challenging final boss because if it isn't the end of the game feels rather meh, but I hate it when it's frustratingly difficult and will just move on to the next game if it annoys me too much. I like games with good stories but I also go back to games that have given me the best kick in certain gameplay types.
Personally the most annoying thing about final bosses though is that they have a habit of being too detached from the rest of the game. The example fresh in my mind is one of the games I recently completed - Rainbow 6 Vegas 2 (twas on sale on steam). The last challenge was roughly difficult enough to be good, but it failed completely in my eyes because it took everything you've learned in Vegas and threw them out of the window - it was too different compared to the rest of the game.
Personally the most annoying thing about final bosses though is that they have a habit of being too detached from the rest of the game. The example fresh in my mind is one of the games I recently completed - Rainbow 6 Vegas 2 (twas on sale on steam). The last challenge was roughly difficult enough to be good, but it failed completely in my eyes because it took everything you've learned in Vegas and threw them out of the window - it was too different compared to the rest of the game.
I consider myself a casual gamer. Reason being that between my job and my family I just don't have the time to devote myself to games anymore.
For this reason I'm 100% heroic. More than once I have played a game right the way through to the end boss or last level, only to give up in frustration and never see the final cutscene.
For this reason games like COD4 and FEAR have endings I find great.
And its the same reason automatically adjusting games like Midnight Club: LA drive me mental. I prefer to always have the difficulty just a little ways below what I know Im capable of. That way I can enjoy the storyline and have it finished in a timely manner and get onto other things.
For this reason I'm 100% heroic. More than once I have played a game right the way through to the end boss or last level, only to give up in frustration and never see the final cutscene.
For this reason games like COD4 and FEAR have endings I find great.
And its the same reason automatically adjusting games like Midnight Club: LA drive me mental. I prefer to always have the difficulty just a little ways below what I know Im capable of. That way I can enjoy the storyline and have it finished in a timely manner and get onto other things.
Personally I like the final boss fight to be a "final exam" of sorts that incorporates as much of what I've learned from the game as possible, maybe with a new twist or two. I don't see it as a major dramatic problem to have a few or even a few hundred player deaths between encountering the final boss and rising victorious. To me that is the story.
But yeah, I get how that can be a total mood killer.
But yeah, I get how that can be a total mood killer.
Heroic. I love to feel the immersion of getting to interact with characters and story. Gameplay is a consideration, but its secondary.
Challenge is alright when killing time, but in those cases I'll pop in a puzzle game.
Most disappointing final conflict was KOTOR 1. I realized that my lvl 20 female rouge turned Jedi diplomat was sorely underpowered to get past the final boss. I quickloaded and tried to fight him a dozen times; each repeated effort was met with a three hit kill. I still don't know how the game ends as I don't feel like replaying the entire game all over again just to see if i can manage to be more successful at the one part.
Challenge is alright when killing time, but in those cases I'll pop in a puzzle game.
Most disappointing final conflict was KOTOR 1. I realized that my lvl 20 female rouge turned Jedi diplomat was sorely underpowered to get past the final boss. I quickloaded and tried to fight him a dozen times; each repeated effort was met with a three hit kill. I still don't know how the game ends as I don't feel like replaying the entire game all over again just to see if i can manage to be more successful at the one part.
i compleetly dissagree about dying a lot making the finally sequence worse the fact the the boss has been obliterating you for ages meas you feal better when you win. in fact dispite the fact i am a heroic gamer i would feel bad if i beat a boss without dying because dieing adds to the drama.
i guess I'm heroic, but i don't mind a games ending so much as long as it's not notably bad, i am talking about the err 'easy' ending to S.T.A.L.K.E.R or of course 'all your base are belong to us'. Games with outstanding memorable endings? err get back to me on that
I was glad you mentioned Final Fantasy at the end, as I'd been thinking of it the entire way through the article. The FF games do deal with the issue in exactly the right way, I think. It's one of the reasons they're so good. You have the story arc, with all the attendant drama, and then when you're done, and the story's over, you go looking for the challenge.
I'm both in equal measure, I enjoy the stories and the challenge, but I like to keep them separate. To some degree challenge based gaming is meta, you're not fighting the enemies, but the game itself. You can't fight the game and its minions at the same time.
Another excellent example is Devil May Cry. Normal difficulty is simple, and you see the plot, such as it is. Then afterwards you ramp up the difficulty and start honing your skills to ninja levels.
Someone mentioned Sartharion. The problem with that fight, and that mechanic is that when you wipe, the first thing you do is try to figure out ways to make the fight easier, to lower incoming damage etc. The first thing that occurs of course is that you could kill the drakes. The optional difficulty mode there can be reset every time you wipe, and the temptation is demoralising. The same problem will occur in Ulduar on the optional difficulties there. The interesting part will be the ultra challenging optional boss they've put in. You don't have to kill it, but if you want a challenge, it's available.
Essentially, challenge should always be optional, and never interfere with a good story.
I'm both in equal measure, I enjoy the stories and the challenge, but I like to keep them separate. To some degree challenge based gaming is meta, you're not fighting the enemies, but the game itself. You can't fight the game and its minions at the same time.
Another excellent example is Devil May Cry. Normal difficulty is simple, and you see the plot, such as it is. Then afterwards you ramp up the difficulty and start honing your skills to ninja levels.
Someone mentioned Sartharion. The problem with that fight, and that mechanic is that when you wipe, the first thing you do is try to figure out ways to make the fight easier, to lower incoming damage etc. The first thing that occurs of course is that you could kill the drakes. The optional difficulty mode there can be reset every time you wipe, and the temptation is demoralising. The same problem will occur in Ulduar on the optional difficulties there. The interesting part will be the ultra challenging optional boss they've put in. You don't have to kill it, but if you want a challenge, it's available.
Essentially, challenge should always be optional, and never interfere with a good story.
I don't think it's unusual for people to be a 'little but of both' but it strikes me that the point of the article si that people are more one than the other. In order for the drama to be present, its generally the case that *some* sort of difficulty needs to be in place, its just a question of *how much*. A boss properly tuned to a 'skill' layer won't just be 'hard' he will *require* practice to beat. A proper story boss should be able to be beat in one try, altough the battle may *feel* challenging.
As a general rule, I think skill type players have alot more challenges tuned for them, which can make it frustrating to play a lot of things as a heroic player.
As a general rule, I think skill type players have alot more challenges tuned for them, which can make it frustrating to play a lot of things as a heroic player.