The Final Fantasy VII Remake is a Fantasy

[Silva]

Most games are already as poorly written as a bad anime.

I would not take it quite so far, as a writer myself. There are well-written game stories out there, for what they're worth. They just don't generally reach the level of high literature. It happens, but not anywhere near enough. But to me, as I've seen some horrible anime in my time, "bad anime" is a whole new level of bad from what I've experienced in gaming, which is mostly tolerable if a bit underdeveloped.

And even the mighty BioWare has yet to write a story that is a step above uninspired sci-fi that you can find on any bookstore shelf.

Quite right. In fact, I find their stories quite bland even by gaming standards. The characters in Dragon Age: Origins, at least, are a bit of fun, but not interesting or that relevant to any central themes in their games.

The industry is moving too far in one direction without addressing other shortcomings.

It's kind of like a wide receiver who only works on his speed, but not his body control, route running or hands. Sure, he'll be fast, but he won't be all that effective.

Precisely what I thought this article should have been about. The industry is too pre-occupied with fan drama to face the real issues here.

 

[NoElixir]

It's obvious they yearn for an HD Remake in a very different vein than we are portraying. Square Enix isn't the company to release low quality games especially Final Fantasy titles (regarding graphical milestones).

 

[LewsTherin]

Besides guys, Final Fantasy 4 better.

As true as that may be, I for one wouldn't mind a revamp of either IV or VII.

4 has been remade. Twice at least, once for the GBA and once for the DS. Also there's a sequel game, which supposedly sucks but I haven't played it.

Besides, I would argue that 4 was just a cliched fantasy story while FF7 actually tried to be creative.

But then there's my favorite, 5, which was a SELF AWARE cliched Fantasy story with an incredibly fun little job system. It's been remade once for the GBA, and that got a truly awesome localization.

I meant revamped in a more current style, not simply ported over. Also, the DS ports I have judged and found wanting. And as cliched as 4 was, you can't imagine a world without Spoony Bards.

 

[FloodOne]

I would not take it quite so far, as a writer myself. There are well-written game stories out there, for what they're worth. They just don't generally reach the level of high literature. It happens, but not anywhere near enough. But to me, as I've seen some horrible anime in my time, "bad anime" is a whole new level of bad from what I've experienced in gaming, which is mostly tolerable if a bit underdeveloped.

To me, all anime is usually poorly written, even though I've watched and enjoyed my fair share of it. There are gems that rise from the smoke, but most of it is shallow drivel.

Quite right. In fact, I find their stories quite bland even by gaming standards. The characters in Dragon Age: Origins, at least, are a bit of fun, but not interesting or that relevant to any central themes in their games.

Glad to see someone sees it the way I do. People laud BioWare a bit too much in my opinion. Constructive criticism never hurts, it only helps.

Precisely what I thought this article should have been about. The industry is too pre-occupied with fan drama to face the real issues here.

It's not just fan drama, it's the fact that consumers continue to heap money on all of these companies that do little to innovate. Though, I will defend Squenix with regards to the Final Fantasy franchise as a whole. They have demonstrated time and again that they aren't afraid to tinker with or drastically change the formula with each outing. Five isn't like six, which isn't like seven etc. etc. A lot of people fail to recognize that.

 

[Zero=Interrupt]

Game world and script aside, let's look at some of the games that followed FF7, such as:

- FF12, which had a shit story and gameplay mechanics, but was graphically superior had big environments with decent amounts of detail, lots of people running around and was generally not a bad shake, when you got into it.

- FF13, which has an eeeehh (it's okay, I s'pose) story and shit gameplay mechanics, but is graphically over the top. The areas are straight lines, yes, but looking over the side of all those walkways, the areas are so insanely huge their complaints that "Towns are to haaaaard!" are laughable. Oh, and it has 3 person parties, because 4 person ones, like the had in FF9 "are too haaaaard".

Shops? You walk up to a desk, talk to an NPC, and a shop menu pops up. There, that's an acceptable RPG shop. What does Squeenix think they have to make? an actual shop where player 1 walks around picking up items, then rifles through his wallet at the checkout? Give me a break.

The original advertising for FF7 was based heavily on the idea that "it's to a human what headlights are to a deer." There's nothing wrong with going that extra mile, farming out sections to other studios (as is already done in Japan and other places) and building up the game world again, from scratch, in reasonable (not over the top) detail. Yes graphic elements are tough, and the programming is insane, but think of all the starving modelers, programmers, and others they'd employ. A rising tide does float all boats.

Shamus, you make an excellent argument and your point of view is very educational. At the same time, if I was a big, well-off company assured megagallons of liquid cash from a title I knew would sell, you'd better believe I'd give serious consideration to making it a reality; only a moron wouldn't. Planning such an undertaking wisely and keeping the scope to normal levels (you don't need destructible, climb-everywhere environments with microscopic detail, nor does the player expect same) there's no reason they couldn't turn out something that people would love.

They made the leap to FF7 after FF6; look at the differences. Then again between 9 and 10. Look at 13. Even if it does play like... well, play isn't the right word, but the point is, it's yet another quantam leap. In the face of these things, crying "It's too hard!" doesn't hold water.

Whatever the result, the story's still a damn sight better than the filth that Bioware calls a narrative. Ferelden my ass. I'll take PS1 graphics, text dialogue, and Cloud's silent head moves over that atrocious garbage any day, even with its A-list voice actors....

 

[ultimasupersaiyan]

When it comes to a Final Fantasy VII remake, I just want a new coat of paint for the most part. I'd be happy with just the character sprites to look like Final Fantasy XIII during the game but still have the pre-rendered cutscenes and locked camera pre-rendered backgounds, I'll even take text over voice acting with anime style neutral mouth movements like in Kingdom Hearts when it's not a cutscene. I realise a true Final Fantasy VII as played by Final Fantasy XIII remake would be spectacularly awesome but I do realise the issues at hand. The FFVII remake I want to see would take a couple of years to make because of motion capture, voice acting if used and so on but let's face it I'm not like the majority of screaming fans. Even PS2 graphics with the HD sheen on it like the God Of War Collection would make me happier then a cancer patient finding out it can be cut out and they'll survive.

Either way if it's meant to be awesome, if not at least we can download it on the PS3 and play our original PC or PS One copies. Honestly I would prefer the Original Final Fantasy in 3D HD graphics or a new Final Fantasy with the Job Class system brought back with a fully customisable main character.

 

[Ciran]

Well, I can see where the creators are coming from, but I can also see that I think there is a bit more resources than people are realizing as well. Yes, the graphics would need a major overhaul, and that would probably take a crazy large amount of money, but I honestly think they wouldn't need to find new voice actors, since they could just get the ones from Advent Children to do it (maybe this is way harder than it sounds, but I don't think there were any really big budget voices on the team, if I remember correctly).

Not to mention that there were some more recent games based off of FF VII that they may be able to pull at least preliminary work for some of the models from (Now I have absolutely NO experience in graphics here, so maybe it's impossible, I wouldn't know, but it seems like they could use at least some of the work from those games and put it toward a remake)

I also agree that the fact that there are an amazingly large amount of people wanting this would mean that it would sell as well, if not better than, some of the more recent FF games, which means that dropping as much money as they do into new games would not be a foolish investment. However I guess this is all a moot point on my end, considering I don't even have a PS3, I was just putting my two cents in, I guess.

 

[rembrandtqeinstein]

1. skip 3d and voice acting - poof that is 90% of your argument
2. take the original game and engine, don't mess with the gameplay and re-draw the painted backgrounds at higher resolution
3. take the important models and increase the polygon count and add a few frames of animation
4. slightly increase the eye candy level of the summons, spells and attacks, that is the stuff that makes the trailers
5. re-render the cutscenes if necessary, maybe add a couple
6. add a few side quests and minigames and maybe some kind of multiplayer feature, like online chocobo races or something
7. release for Wii, PSN and Arcade
8. massive profit off all the fanbois

You could do it exactly like Bionic Commando Re-Armed but charge $40-50 for it and everyone would pay.

I'm sorry but a ff7 anything (that isn't a psp exclusive) is a slam dunk, I don't see why the studios aren't milking this property for all its worth. The ROI on something like that seems like it would be much better than the abortion that was FF13.

 

[Frylock72]

tbh they should just release 7-9 on retail as Final Fantasy Last Games Most Fans Liked or something.

Eeeeh. I wasn't crazy about FFIX. I loved VII and VIII (anyone notice that when talking about Final Fantasy, it's almost required to use Roman numerals?), and X and X-2 (bad as it is, I still love it). I think that they want to avoid the X-2 trap (which was a sequel rushed out in order to capitalize on FFX's popularity and sales) of just releasing a game to make money.

Asking Square Enix to halt production of their Final Fantasy line to do a remake is a little preposterous and more than a little egotistical. We don't know for sure if people would buy it or not. With the recent increase in game piracy, who's to say whether it would actually make the big bucks everyone claims when more people are interested in getting it for free?

I don't actually know what Square Enix said regarding the remake, but it's not as impossible to accomplish as they're saying; I think they're just wary of how much profit they would actually make versus how quickly it would be pirated.

To the poster who mentioned manga-style cutscenes, Chrono Trigger's release with FFIV had 30-second anime-style cutscenes in place of (or in addition to, I don't recall) its SNES ones. Something similar would work here, or the cel-shaded TF2-style cutscenes.

To be honest, though, I have to wonder how many people would actually buy the game. We've been feeding on FFVII for over a decade, I think it's time that we let it go, but to do that Square Enix also needs to stop jerking the leash.

I'd also be in favor of a PSP remake. Crisis Core was good, if not great (and I hated that final part at the end where you have to play as Zach yet you still couldn't win no matter how much you tried), and seeing something like that for a remake of FFVII would be interesting.

 

[Leaper]

Huge post

For some bizarre reason I have a huge urge to argue with you :<

Well I can't really comment anything about game budgets because I have pretty much zero knowledge about that, so I'll leave that as you said, also have pretty much no reason to not believe you.

The environments
You are comparing FF game developement with UT3 map making, witch I'm not so sure are so comparable things. First thing that comes in mind is difference in core gameplay. UT(3) maps are pretty much always made in quite close environments with lots of connected ways, with an illusion that the whole place is part of something really bigger (I love that). Final fantasy games almost always have pretty open environments (with the exception of FF13, more or less) and whole making process is a lot more different than UT3 map making process. Openness and grand scale is probably the biggest cockblock of FFVII remaking, because remaking game of that scale with todays requirements needs lots and lots of time and effort. The point kinda is that remaking that game on current consoles is *a lot* harder than making brand new game.

Can't really comment on SE workflow, but the whole "blocking out" technique that you are proposing yet again might not exactly work with FF developement. Though as you pointed out, Square Enix indeed seem not to have changed their workflow in ages, and that might be stopping their game developement, but who knows if that could actualy improve their game making process.

Now talking about Mass Effect, the only thing they did really well is that they made a game, that is actualy so small, seem pretty vast.

You are traveling through the galaxy, visisting different planets, space stations and so on. Sounds vast? Well it isn't, but sometimes indeed feels so. Most of the planets are actualy really small, just a few rooms connected with corridors, but they made extremely good work with actualy making them feel big.

And Ubisoft really made excelent work there. But look at how Assassin's Creed 1 looked. It was way more smaller with a lot less complex evironments. When they were making AC2, they pretty much left the whole engine, gameplay, pretty much all mechanics the same and just expanded and improved what they already had, changing what was nescesary to change. But I can't argue that they made excelent work, just saying that their developement was a lot easier than just making a game from scratch (as would be with FFVII, ebcause they would obviuosly use different engine and all the assets, and *remaking* them to be just like in the original game, only in todays quality is a lot harder than making something new).

Can't really comment on Uncharyed because I haven't played them.

Also you are making a lot of asumptions from facts that are taken out of context, I can't really deny them nor confirm, so I'll leave that as it is

 

[Kukakkau]

Why do people want an FFVII remake? They can just play FFVII.

Why buy something you already have?

PS1 memory card always gets reformated now on my PS2 so I can only get to say disc 2 before it erases all data. Only reason I want it

I'm not exactly seeing how it can be all that time consuming - the script is already written, the moves and already there and the sprites could just be upgraded. Only thing that would really need done is a graphics rehash and maybe voice over but I think old fans wouldn't care about voice.

 

[whaleswiththumbs]

Personally, I never have been interested in the Fonal Fantasy stuff(which is probably why i don't get the title haha). I just wanted to get that out the way.

This makes a good point for all games, not just FF. Remakes are psycho expensive, and the company remaking it(hopefully it is the one who made the original, but hope doesn't make games) will always mess with the original game to "make it more relatable", when infact, they did it, because thy are magicians. They do some thing over here while they change stuff over there. Just like a magician, they distract you then do the trick. "Ohh shiny new graphics." when what you don't see is, well half the original game.

I'm all for a remake of the classics, except the new Wolfenstein, but thats another story.(i.e. fuck, that, shite). And i adamantly believe that if they remake it, the only thing they should do is update graphics and anything that would otehrwise leave a glaring hole were the old graphics used to be. Thats not gonna happen. Shocker. They will change things, because in the end, they didnt remake the game, they remade the crack bucket which your nostalgia will fill for them. As to say, they made a game that lets your nostalgia take hold, and make them rich. We're all the suckers, and it's all our fault.

On a second note, I'm pretty sure with the wide base FF has, that there are some people, somewhere who could infact remake the game, instead of a big monolith company. It's called indie for a reason, and they do it for love, not for their crack.

 

[ccesarano]

Playing the ignorant and skipping to the end, so apologies if this has already been stated.

In my mind, Squaresoft is biding their time, but they will not be releasing a remake on the PS3, or Xbox 360 or any of the major systems. Hey, maybe they'd do a Wii release, but that's doubtful.

My money is on the release of a handheld like the PSP or its predecessor. Partly because they've already released FF3 and FF4 on the DS, and while there has been no news of a remake of FF5 or FF6, the Nintendo 3DS was only recently announced (leaked, even). I know there was a news post on The Escapist before explaining the DS itself had limitations that would make those games difficult, but I imagine the 3DS may not be bogged down as much.

Still, it is believed that Sony holds the rights to publish FF7, and considering that it was the first non-Nintendo entry in the series it would seem sort of proper that the series would jump from Nintendo's handheld back over to Sony's.

However, the real matter is that a handheld will always be cheaper, but considering the power of the PSP you can still make the game look better without having to drop the insane expenses required on a full console platform. Shortcuts can be taken, but as long as it looks better than the PSX then fans will be pleased. Putting the game on a system not everyone has will be something people ***** about, but if people were willing to buy a Playstation just for Final Fantasy 7 (myself included, though since then I've never chosen to buy a console for such a reason again) then I think we can assume people will buy a PSP just so they can play a remake of FF7. Bonus points if Sony allows you to connect the PSP to your PS3 and display the game on your television. Sure, it won't be current gen HD, but, once again, it'll be better than on a small handheld screen.

Such a remake would have a reduced budget but would sell just as many units, and would therefore maximize profits.

It is, in a business sense, the most logical choice Squaresoft could make if they went and made a remake.

Though honestly, I'll just by the PSX one and be happy with that. I'd love an FF6 remake, but at the same time there were some elements of the FF4 remake that didn't transfer well. It's fun, but it doesn't carry the same atmosphere (and let's face it, nostalgia). Plus, they gave Golbez an additional bit of retarded background that can only be described as "shit".

 

[Archemetis]

Ok, I realise I'm one of the people who said they have the 'resources' knocking about.

But I'd like it clear that while yes I did say that I never once said that they should take the character models from other FFVII games...
I said take them from Advent Children.

Characters? Sorted they're made.
Background characters? The movie had those too.

I'm of course aware that it's not as easy as 'just rip 'em out the movie' but like I said, I just wanted it known that I wasn't implying to put some polish on polygons from 1995...


This is of course only for the graphic-whores who insist on everything being hyper-realistic.
I actually really Squeenix to take a cartoony approach to it.
Have character models like the ones from the FFIII remake on the DS (with slight polish, of course).
I reckon it'd be a daring approach to the re-make that would probably end favourably.

 

[Mr. Win]

tbh they should just release 7-9 on retail as Final Fantasy Last Games Most Fans Liked or something.

Eeeeh. I wasn't crazy about FFIX. I loved VII and VIII (anyone notice that when talking about Final Fantasy, it's almost required to use Roman numerals?), and X and X-2 (bad as it is, I still love it). I think that they want to avoid the X-2 trap (which was a sequel rushed out in order to capitalize on FFX's popularity and sales) of just releasing a game to make money.

Asking Square Enix to halt production of their Final Fantasy line to do a remake is a little preposterous and more than a little egotistical. We don't know for sure if people would buy it or not. With the recent increase in game piracy, who's to say whether it would actually make the big bucks everyone claims when more people are interested in getting it for free?

I don't actually know what Square Enix said regarding the remake, but it's not as impossible to accomplish as they're saying; I think they're just wary of how much profit they would actually make versus how quickly it would be pirated.

To the poster who mentioned manga-style cutscenes, Chrono Trigger's release with FFIV had 30-second anime-style cutscenes in place of (or in addition to, I don't recall) its SNES ones. Something similar would work here, or the cel-shaded TF2-style cutscenes.

To be honest, though, I have to wonder how many people would actually buy the game. We've been feeding on FFVII for over a decade, I think it's time that we let it go, but to do that Square Enix also needs to stop jerking the leash.

I'd also be in favor of a PSP remake. Crisis Core was good, if not great (and I hated that final part at the end where you have to play as Zach yet you still couldn't win no matter how much you tried), and seeing something like that for a remake of FFVII would be interesting.

I mean, release it like they released Final Fantasy Anthology, or something. It would make a lot of money, not require much work, and give fans who have broken their PS2 a legal alternative to emulators.

Also I think part of the reason the fanboys want it is to see a realistic Cloud cross dress.

 

[plunderbunny]

I would never assume that remaking FFVII would be an easy task. I love the original, so can't say I'll be too gutted if they don't remake it. Even with swish graphics, there would be no replacing it.

This article depresses me a bit. The thought that decent gameplay is being sacrificed for expensive graphics is quite frustrating. FFXIII seems to try so hard to impress with looks alone. The graphics are lovely, but what does that matter when I get bored of playing it rather quickly.

 

[Zombie Nixon]

I think people want an FFVII remake so much because they realize just how far Square has fallen since then.

 

[Aft3rShock]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_game_remakes

^^Note: The above wikipedia article does not include certain games that received only minor graphical updates in their porting to current-gen consoles(ex: Perfect Dark, God of War, God of War 2, etc.) It also does not notate remakes that have yet to come out (ex: Secret of Monkey Island 2)

What is it about FFVII that makes it a 40-year money sink? Some of these games got full graphical updates, updated the console they run on to a more current-gen system, received voice-overs, and added major localization changes to the game. Some were simple updates whilst others were almost entirely new games.

Normally I would say that Square Enix would know more about their finances and resources than I do, but it seems I feel like they keep funding poorly made JRPGs that don't sell as well as their "good" games when they could focus on an FFVII remake.

I don't even like FFVII that much. My fondest memories of Square are tied to Dragon Warrior Monsters 2: Tara's Adventure. It's just that because I loved the HD remake of Secret of Monkey Island, I can see the value (dare I say importance) of making classics more accessible to the modern audience. If Square Enix wants to deny players a nostalgia trip through their favorite childhood game, that's their prerogative, but don't exaggerate to consumers by stating that the time and resources required for a remake would be comparable to a space shuttle launch when that is not necessarily the case.

Also, as stated before, graphics are costly for remakes, yes. But graphics are expensive regardless. It's called a budget: You figure out what you can or can not do, what changes need to be made, and what is priority while taking into account the resources available. I'm not sure if they are expecting too much, if they're afraid to drastically change a classic, or if they are just screwing with everyone.