The Grinch Bill

[Agema]

A fair point. Kind of weird not to stock one of the most historically important books of the 20th century (as unpleasant as that history may be). Like, every podunk town library around here has a copy (and one of the Anne Frank diary). Different country tho. Perhaps American libraries have different priorities.

One of my great-grandfathers had a copy of Mein Kampf, we found it in his belongings when he died at the grand old age of 97. I'd assume he wanted to know the enemy, as he was a committed working class socialist. I had a flick through, but at 11 or so I was a bit young to get anything out of it and couldn't hold my interest.

When I got older, I decided it just wasn't worth even bothering. Probably better than Dianetics, though. I tried to read that to see what it was about, but it's a pile of unreadable crap.

 

[tstorm823]

If they find the book second hand or for auction on ebay, I don't care. cuz eventually they're going to run out at some point or it's going to be too expensive to buy. The estate still made the decision on their own, and this congressman just punishing people for doing the right thing. Cancel Culture had nothing to do with Dr seuss. This is just an asshole being an asshole for the sake of it and punishing people for being decent human beings.

I will concede, the person making and pushing this bill (that almost certainly won't pass) is being an annoying jerk and complaining about cancel culture because complaining about cancel culture is in vogue. That being said, it's a bill basically telling the states that they aren't allowed to pull these books from schools because the publisher decided they're outdated.

And I don't necessarily know that's a bad thing, I don't think carrying over the influence of an author's estate should be the metric educational agencies use to decide what materials are or aren't appropriate.

 

[Hawki]

A lot of books just become unpopular over time and then get cycled out of a library. Is this possible anymore? Me personally, I'd say so. They SQW seem to only make a fuss when something is popular

Personally, I'd love for every book to be archived, at least electronically.

State libraries in Oz have something called "legal deposit," where any book published in Australia is, by law, required to have at least one copy deposited in the state library of each respective state. Public libraries however, have to make calls of what to store and what to chuck.

Can't say I enjoy the chucking part.

This doesn't at ALL fix the problem Joyce has with the Grinch situation. Getting rid of copyright WOULD definitely cure this problem. What say ye?

I don't think we need to get rid of copyright.

It's within the estate's rights to not sell the work anymore. It was far more iffy to stop Ebay from selling it.

Personally, I'd rather the estate just divest from copyright in this case if it no longer wanted to be associated with it, but no, it was withdrawn. Again, within its rights, but can't say I'm a fan of it.

 

[Agema]

I don't think we need to get rid of copyright.

Maybe not, but we can seriously question why it's as long as 70 years after the author's death.

 

[Trunkage]

Maybe not, but we can seriously question why it's as long as 70 years after the author's death.

This is probably more what Im getting at... but also I see copyright being abused all the time by Big Pharma, patent trolls and technology companies. Further restrictions on copyright is probably needed (talking about copyright in general)

Personally, I'd love for every book to be archived, at least electronically.

State libraries in Oz have something called "legal deposit," where any book published in Australia is, by law, required to have at least one copy deposited in the state library of each respective state. Public libraries however, have to make calls of what to store and what to chuck.

Can't say I enjoy the chucking part.

I understand but keeping physical copies is probably too much. Electronic copies is more feasible. The internet should been able to create an easy and cheap fix for this... but it's probably an issue of copyright

 

[Thaluikhain]

I'd like the recommend Project Gutenbery, Project Gutenberg Australia and Faded Page (the Canadian one). For out of copyright stuff, depending on local copyright laws.

 

[Agema]

This is probably more what Im getting at... but also I see copyright being abused all the time by Big Pharma, patent trolls and technology companies. Further restrictions on copyright is probably needed (talking about copyright in general)

Patent is a similar concept, but not the same as copyright. It's only 25 years, for a start.

From the perspective of Big Pharma, I'm not that critical. It takes an estimated average of $1 billion to bring a drug to market (that cost including drugs that fail trials), and up to 10 years of their 25 year patent - plus that other companies often develop similar "me too" drugs rapidly. Thus outside the few blockbuster drugs, that means it can be difficult for them to make their money back on many drugs, and stands the risk of dissuading investment in treatments for niche disorders. On the other hand, profit margins in the sector are healthy, but that's a lot to do with the huge US market and the failings of the market in drug procurement in the USA that is very inefficient for consumers.

I'm inclined to think that some tech patents are a bit ridiculous. The field moves so quickly that it's really hard to see a lot of code still relevant 25 years later to restrict people from using. I wonder whether there couldn't be a form of mandatory licensing - a mechanism to compel companies to allow access to others to use their stuff (if they're willing to pay).

 

[Gordon_4]

Personally, I'd love for every book to be archived, at least electronically.

State libraries in Oz have something called "legal deposit," where any book published in Australia is, by law, required to have at least one copy deposited in the state library of each respective state. Public libraries however, have to make calls of what to store and what to chuck.

Can't say I enjoy the chucking part.

I was on business in Adelaide about four years ago and we were there over the weekend so I went walking around the city of churches - as you do - and ended up at their state library who were in the 'chuck out' phase. But, for $5 any Joe Sixpack or Wendy Homemaker could get a box and put as many books in it as could fit and take them home. Sadly with my limited storage space I could only save a couple of Bryce Courtney's, and autobiographies of Paul Eddington and Sachin Tendulkar.

 

[tstorm823]

I wonder whether there couldn't be a form of mandatory licensing - a mechanism to compel companies to allow access to others to use their stuff (if they're willing to pay).

In the case of patents, this I think makes more sense. Enforced exclusivity as the incentive for developing technology is appealing simple compared to what we're suggesting, but the time period of exclusivity is both arbitrary and likely detrimental to further technological advancement. There should be a better balanced method that doesn't reward people for inventing something by preventing others from building off of it for 25 years.

 

[Satinavian]

Maybe not, but we can seriously question why it's as long as 70 years after the author's death.

Coincidently one of the reasons "Mein Kampf" is so hard to get is that the copyright holder (for some reason the Bavarian state) didn't allow any reprints. But i am not sure how much that extends to rights to translted versions.

The list above seems pretty random. Was surprised to see the bible in there though.

 

[Thaluikhain]

The list above seems pretty random. Was surprised to see the bible in there though.

Well, it's the list of most commonly challenged, there's little logic required.

I've heard people have challenged Huckelberry Finn because it deals with racism, and black people would be upset to know that racism used to be a thing. Other people have complained about The Hungry Hungry Caterpillar because it promotes obesity. The Three Little Pigs was banned in some places because the existence of pigs is offensive to Muslims, that's totally a thing, we're sure it is, so we don't actually have to ask any Muslims.

In Texas, they banned some of the latter books of the Vampire Academy series from school libraries before they were written in case there would be sex in them.

 

[09philj]

I live in the UK and I got quite a lot of gnarly stuff out of the school library. I definitely remember reading some Stephen King novels, Maus, a couple of Iain M Banks books, Joe Sacco's Palestine, V for Vendetta, and L.A. Confidential.

How is 1984 at no. 79, but Animal Farm didn't make the cut at all?

ALL ANIMALS GEORGE ORWELL WORKS ARE EQUAL ORWELLIAN
BUT SOME ANIMALS GEORGE ORWELL WORKS ARE MORE EQUAL ORWELLIAN THAN OTHERS.

1984 is a generic attack on authoritarianism and therefore contains satire that may be perceived as anti-American. Also it's supportive of premarital sex. Animal Farm is a book Conservatives love to cite because it's an attack on communism, even though it's an explicitly socialist text written by a socialist that is fiercely critical of capitalism. Conservatives don't know this either because they haven't read it or don't understand metaphors.

How the fuck is Chuck Palahniuk not in there? I was able to checkout Fight Club from my school library and even that’s more offensive than anything on this list.

I think you may just have had a very hardcore librarian.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Cool. Finally a conservative brave enough to fight for what's right.

Top 100 Most Banned and Challenged Books: 2010-2019

The American Library Association’s Office for Intellectual Freedom (OIF) has been documenting attempts to ban books in libraries and schools since 1990. OIF compiled this list of the most banned and challenged books from 2010-2019 by reviewing both the public and confidential censorship reports...

www.ala.org

1. The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian by Sherman Alexie
2. Captain Underpants (series) by Dav Pilkey
3. Thirteen Reasons Why by Jay Asher
4. Looking for Alaska by John Green
5. George by Alex Gino
6. And Tango Makes Three by Justin Richardson and Peter Parnell
7. Drama by Raina Telgemeier
8. Fifty Shades of Grey by E. L. James
9. Internet Girls (series) by Lauren Myracle
10. The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison
11. The Kite Runner by Khaled Hosseini
12. Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins
13. I Am Jazz by Jazz Jennings and Jessica Herthel
14. The Perks of Being a Wallflower by Stephen Chbosky
15. To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee
16. Bone (series) by Jeff Smith
17. The Glass Castle by Jeannette Walls
18. Two Boys Kissing by David Levithan
19. A Day in the Life of Marlon Bundo by Jill Twiss
20. Sex is a Funny Word by Cory Silverberg
21. Alice McKinley (series) by Phyllis Reynolds Naylor
22. It's Perfectly Normal by Robie H. Harris
23. Nineteen Minutes by Jodi Picoult
24. Scary Stories (series) by Alvin Schwartz
25. Speak by Laurie Halse Anderson
26. A Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
27. Beyond Magenta: Transgender Teens Speak Out by Susan Kuklin
28. Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck
29. The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood
30. The Hate U Give by Angie Thomas
31. Fun Home: A Family Tragicomic by Alison Bechdel
32. It's a Book by Lane Smith
33. The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
34. The Things They Carried by Tim O'Brien
35. What My Mother Doesn't Know by Sonya Sones
36. A Child Called "It" by Dave Pelzer
37. Bad Kitty (series) by Nick Bruel
38. Crank by Ellen Hopkins
39. Nickel and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich
40. Persepolis by Marjane Satrapi
41. The Adventures of Super Diaper Baby by Dav Pilkey
42. This Day in June by Gayle E. Pitman
43. This One Summer by Mariko Tamaki
44. A Bad Boy Can Be Good For A Girl by Tanya Lee Stone
45. Beloved by Toni Morrison
46. Goosebumps (series) by R.L. Stine
47. In Our Mothers' House by Patricia Polacco
48. Lush by Natasha Friend
49. The Catcher in the Rye by J. D. Salinger
50. The Color Purple by Alice Walker
51. The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark Haddon
52. The Holy Bible
53. This Book is Gay by Juno Dawson
54. Eleanor & Park by Rainbow Rowell
55. Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close by Jonathan Safran Foer
56. Gossip Girl (series) by Cecily von Ziegesar
57. House of Night (series) by P.C. Cast
58. My Mom's Having A Baby by Dori Hillestad Butler
59. Neonomicon by Alan Moore
60. The Dirty Cowboy by Amy Timberlake
61. The Giver by Lois Lowry
62. Anne Frank: Diary of a Young Girl by Anne Frank
63. Bless Me, Ultima by Rudolfo Anaya
64. Draw Me a Star by Eric Carle
65. Dreaming In Cuban by Cristina Garcia
66. Fade by Lisa McMann
67. The Family Book by Todd Parr
68. Feed by M.T. Anderson
69. Go the Fuck to Sleep by Adam Mansbach
70. Habibi by Craig Thompson
71. House of the Spirits by Isabel Allende
72. Jacob's New Dress by Sarah Hoffman
73. Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov
74. Monster by Walter Dean Myers
75. Nasreen’s Secret School by Jeanette Winter
76. Saga by Brian K. Vaughan
77. Stuck in the Middle by Ariel Schrag
78. The Kingdom of Little Wounds by Susann Cokal
79. 1984 by George Orwell
80. A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess
81. Almost Perfect by Brian Katcher
82. Awakening by Kate Chopin
83. Burned by Ellen Hopkins
84. Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
85. Fallen Angels by Walter Dean Myers
86. Glass by Ellen Hopkins
87. Heather Has Two Mommies by Lesle´a Newman
88. I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou
89. Madeline and the Gypsies by Ludwig Bemelmans
90. My Princess Boy by Cheryl Kilodavis
91. Prince and Knight by Daniel Haack
92. Revolutionary Voices: A Multicultural Queer Youth Anthology by Amy Sonnie
93. Skippyjon Jones (series) by Judith Schachner
94. So Far from the Bamboo Grove by Yoko Kawashima Watkins
95. The Color of Earth (series) by Tong-hwa Kim
96. The Librarian of Basra by Jeanette Winter
97. The Walking Dead (series) by Robert Kirkman
98. Tricks by Ellen Hopkins
99. Uncle Bobby’s Wedding by Sarah S Brannen
100. Year of Wonders by Geraldine Brooks

Pretty sure that's whataboutism which your or some of your associates are very vocal about not wanting

 

[Kwak]

Pretty sure that's whataboutism which your or some of your associates are very vocal about not wanting

How so? It's saying the bill will apply to all banned books. Like those.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

How so?

You use a needle and thread. De dum tsh

It's saying the bill will apply to all banned books. Like those.

yes but that's some other stuff not the laser focussed topic of the thread lol

 

[Kwak]

You use a needle and thread. De dum tsh

yes but that's some other stuff not the laser focussed topic of the thread lol

No read the first post.
"U.S. Rep. John Joyce of Pennsylvania has introduced legislation dubbed the “GRINCH” bill — for Guarding Readers’ Independence and Choice Act — which would prohibit taxpayer dollars from funding what he calls attempts to censor children’s literature."
So that would apply to a lot of those titles. They wouldn't get funds if they continue to ban them. Unless the bill is only meant to apply to certain books...

 

[Trunkage]

Well, it's the list of most commonly challenged, there's little logic required.

I've heard people have challenged Huckelberry Finn because it deals with racism, and black people would be upset to know that racism used to be a thing. Other people have complained about The Hungry Hungry Caterpillar because it promotes obesity. The Three Little Pigs was banned in some places because the existence of pigs is offensive to Muslims, that's totally a thing, we're sure it is, so we don't actually have to ask any Muslims.

In Texas, they banned some of the latter books of the Vampire Academy series from school libraries before they were written in case there would be sex in them.

I would have thought that the Very Hungry Caterpillar was actually a morality tale about how you arent to eat too much food

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

No read the first post.
"U.S. Rep. John Joyce of Pennsylvania has introduced legislation dubbed the “GRINCH” bill — for Guarding Readers’ Independence and Choice Act — which would prohibit taxpayer dollars from funding what he calls attempts to censor children’s literature."
So that would apply to a lot of those titles. They wouldn't get funds if they continue to ban them. Unless the bill is only meant to apply to certain books...

are there tax payer funded attempts to cancel them or are they "private entities doing what they like"

 

[Kwak]

are there tax payer funded attempts to cancel them or are they "private entities doing what they like"

Literally tax-funded schools and libraries.