The issue of "Mens Rights"

Syzygy23

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Sep 20, 2010
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Vault101 said:
on the internet it seems there is a new group emergine (emerging)...angry men who campgn (campaign) for mens' rights like this guy: http://www.angryharry.com/esFeminismCausesTrafficCongestion.htm <-I would hazard a guess that he is on the extreme end of things.

On the extreme end, you have the belive (believe) that feminists are some big powerful force that are out to destry (destroy) men (I mean on almost conspirisy (conspiracy) theory levels)

But anyway,

some see it as thinly veild (veiled) mysogany (misogyny), or just whining, as pointied (pointed) out in this blog (for extra fun read the comments) http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/i-am-angry-white-man-hear-me-roar/

BUT thats not to say there arn't some issues, I think that's hard to deny.

Personally[/B]
it's somtimes hard not to be biased, but I absolutly (absolutely) detest the likes of angry harry up their ...ESPECIALLY when you use bullshit arguments like "MEN did all the good stuff in society blah blah blah" no...just no

I think its just an outlet for a general hate of the oposite (opposite) gender...JUST like extreme feminists, thease groups arnt any better

and that's what's frustrating..no middle ground. YES there are issues though, and they need some attention, but it shits (it... shits... you?) me when some feel the need to stoop to the hateful "feminazi" line of thinking they hate so much themselfs (themselves).

on (in) other words... fucking hypocrites...(just the extremists mind)

but that's jsut (Just) me...

what do you think? shoud (Should) htease (these) guys just man up and stop whining? Arethey correct in anyway?
Come on dude, have some standards. This website has a BUILT IN SPELLCHECKER, there is no excuse for such poor communication skills.

No, I'm not trying to put you down by fixing the lack of proofreading so I can actually understand what you said. What I'm doing is giving you for free what a university or a privatized high school would charge you for: knowledge.

As to the subject matter: Gender wars are a moot point. With current genetic engineering technology advancing faster and faster, differences between genders are irrelevant. Someday it won't be your chromosomes that determine your traits, it'll be people in lab coats working in a fertility clinic, pushing molecules around until you're as smart, athletic and good looking as your parents can afford.
 

BrionJames

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Jul 8, 2009
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Maybe we can take extreme feminists and extreme MRA's and let them fight to the death over who gets to win the argument?? It's sad but I prefer to stand aside in these matters, mostly because both sides have overblown ego's and opinions of themselves.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
18,863
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Syzygy23 said:
Vault101 said:
on the internet it seems there is a new group emergine (emerging)...angry men who campgn (campaign) for mens' rights like this guy: http://www.angryharry.com/esFeminismCausesTrafficCongestion.htm <-I would hazard a guess that he is on the extreme end of things.

On the extreme end, you have the belive (believe) that feminists are some big powerful force that are out to destry (destroy) men (I mean on almost conspirisy (conspiracy) theory levels)

But anyway,

some see it as thinly veild (veiled) mysogany (misogyny), or just whining, as pointied (pointed) out in this blog (for extra fun read the comments) http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/i-am-angry-white-man-hear-me-roar/

BUT thats not to say there arn't some issues, I think that's hard to deny.

Personally[/B]
it's somtimes hard not to be biased, but I absolutly (absolutely) detest the likes of angry harry up their ...ESPECIALLY when you use bullshit arguments like "MEN did all the good stuff in society blah blah blah" no...just no

I think its just an outlet for a general hate of the oposite (opposite) gender...JUST like extreme feminists, thease groups arnt any better

and that's what's frustrating..no middle ground. YES there are issues though, and they need some attention, but it shits (it... shits... you?) me when some feel the need to stoop to the hateful "feminazi" line of thinking they hate so much themselfs (themselves).

on (in) other words... fucking hypocrites...(just the extremists mind)

but that's jsut (Just) me...

what do you think? shoud (Should) htease (these) guys just man up and stop whining? Arethey correct in anyway?
Come on dude, have some standards. This website has a BUILT IN SPELLCHECKER, there is no excuse for such poor communication skills.

No, I'm not trying to put you down by fixing the lack of proofreading so I can actually understand what you said. What I'm doing is giving you for free what a university or a privatized high school would charge you for: knowledge.

As to the subject matter: Gender wars are a moot point. With current genetic engineering technology advancing faster and faster, differences between genders are irrelevant. Someday it won't be your chromosomes that determine your traits, it'll be people in lab coats working in a fertility clinic, pushing molecules around until you're as smart, athletic and good looking as your parents can afford.
Built in spell checker? where? (because that would be helpful...not that I can't spell)

anyway, that Gattaca situation you decribed doesnt sound any better...:/
 

Kahunaburger

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May 6, 2011
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Lurchibald said:
Kahunaburger said:
Huh, apparently being the vast majority of heads of state/board officials/executives, higher pay, and the ability to pee standing up isn't enough for some dudes.
Higher Pay? Let me guess, you've been reading feminist propaganda about the whole "Women earn 77c for every dollar a man makes right? Well, to be frank, that is a load of bull. Women earn the same money for the same work.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704415104576250672504707048.html#printMode

(emphasis by me in bold, the whole article isn't quoted, to see the whole article go to the link)

....Feminist hand-wringing about the wage gap relies on the assumption that the differences in average earnings stem from discrimination. Thus the mantra that women make only 77% of what men earn for equal work. But even a cursory review of the data proves this assumption false.

The Department of Labor's Time Use survey shows that full-time working women spend an average of 8.01 hours per day on the job, compared to 8.75 hours for full-time working men. One would expect that someone who works 9% more would also earn more. This one fact alone accounts for more than a third of the wage gap.

Choice of occupation also plays an important role in earnings. While feminists suggest that women are coerced into lower-paying job sectors, most women know that something else is often at work. Women gravitate toward jobs with fewer risks, more comfortable conditions, regular hours, more personal fulfilment and greater flexibility. Simply put, many women?not all, but enough to have a big impact on the statistics?are willing to trade higher pay for other desirable job characteristics.

Men, by contrast, often take on jobs that involve physical labor, outdoor work, overnight shifts and dangerous conditions (which is also why men suffer the overwhelming majority of injuries and deaths at the workplace). They put up with these unpleasant factors so that they can earn more.

Recent studies have shown that the wage gap shrinks?or even reverses?when relevant factors are taken into account and comparisons are made between men and women in similar circumstances. In a 2010 study of single, childless urban workers between the ages of 22 and 30, the research firm Reach Advisors found that women earned an average of 8% more than their male counterparts. Given that women are outpacing men in educational attainment, and that our economy is increasingly geared toward knowledge-based jobs, it makes sense that women's earnings are going up compared to men's....
[whines about "propaganda"]
[posts WSJ opinion piece.]

:D

If you'll excuse me, I'm off to go pee standing up.
 

brainslurper

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Aug 18, 2009
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Two things:
1. Men should get to leave work when they have a baby too.
2. In a divorce, who gets the child should be decided on who would better benefit the child, not their gender.
 

Kahunaburger

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May 6, 2011
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There should be a variation of Godwin's Law where instead of comparing something to Nazism is grounds for an automatic loss, posting something by AmazingAthiest is grounds for same. Call it the Neckbeard Clause or something.
 

Lurchibald

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Sep 12, 2007
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Kahunaburger said:
[whines about "propaganda"]
[posts WSJ opinion piece.]

:D

If you'll excuse me, I'm off to go pee standing up.
ok then read this, that opinion piece just happened to sum up what is written in these reports (CONSAD report with a foreword by the US Department of Labor) http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf
and another http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/Women_in_America.pdf
 

drisky

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Mar 16, 2009
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Men don't need rights as much as social fairness, although a lot of those double standard are ones caused by men, like women who get out of parking tickets by sweet talking as an example. Such things wouldn't happen if male cops got over there "all women are innocent" image and pushed for fairness. Or when women tend to get parental custody. These are problems with the law but can't fixed on a legal level, only a social one. Then there is stuff like this;
Vault101 said:
shoud htease guys just man up and stop whining?
I personally hate the term "man up," as it suggests that only women complain or are the only ones allowed to. but a again thats a social issue, not one of human rights. Much of the unfairness can't be fixed on a legal level. But that is why we should continue talking about it, because the way to fix things is to call out unfairness when we see it, not just ignore it because "Men have it better and should stop whining".

It also means fixing women's issues on a social level too, like the tendency to think of female politicians as "bitches" for acting the same as a male politician. As a simplification that I have come to, men have a harder time being liked, women have a harder time being respected.
 

Dogstile

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Jan 17, 2009
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RedEyesBlackGamer said:
It is bullshit. The western male really has nothing to complain about. But please don't use the phrase "man up". It implies that guys should just suck something up and shouldn't ever complain because they are manly men. And manly men don't complain. But this is just a case of guys losing the overwhelming power that they had in society as things become more balanced and some men take that badly.
Nothing to complain about? Really, nothing? So, cases of men being laughed out of a police station while trying to report that they were raped is nothing? (aye, I went straight for the extreme, its late so i'm making this snappy) I won't deny that the average western male doesn't have a fairly ok life by most accounts, but equality should work both ways and so long as they're not extremists about getting their point across, what's wrong with it?

In fact, I have that same thought process behind feminists. So long as they're promoting equality, what's the big deal? So long as its true equality (so feminists, not feminazi's, I think they're called "affectionately" on these forums).
 

Kahunaburger

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May 6, 2011
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Lurchibald said:
Kahunaburger said:
[whines about "propaganda"]
[posts WSJ opinion piece.]

:D

If you'll excuse me, I'm off to go pee standing up.
ok then read this, that opinion piece just happened to sum up what is written in these reports (CONSAD report with a foreword by the US Department of Labor) http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf
and another http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/Women_in_America.pdf
That's more like it. But I'm not gonna buy that America isn't deeply sexist until I see a woman run for office and the media spend more time talking about her issue positions than her clothes.
 

Sammaul

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Nov 25, 2009
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Anyone check out the ''8 Horrible Facts'' on Angry Harry's site? Some are disturbing, others are just funny.

For example:

3. There must be millions of men worldwide who are as aggrieved as me over some issue or other.

Was too scared to check out the link to ''Understanding the rape statistics'' though.
 

Lurchibald

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Sep 12, 2007
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Kahunaburger said:
Lurchibald said:
Kahunaburger said:
[whines about "propaganda"]
[posts WSJ opinion piece.]

:D

If you'll excuse me, I'm off to go pee standing up.
ok then read this, that opinion piece just happened to sum up what is written in these reports (CONSAD report with a foreword by the US Department of Labor) http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf
and another http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/Women_in_America.pdf
That's more like it. But I'm not gonna buy that America isn't deeply sexist until I see a woman run for office and the media spend more time talking about her issue positions than her clothes.
Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way saying that Americans aren't sexist (Many are, both men and women) and with politics I only want to hear about a persons policies and how they are going to help/harm me. I just get really annoyed when people talk about the "wage gap" and portray it as women are getting less pay for doing the same amount of work (Which, when gone into detail of any of those reports, is a complete lie)
 

Dastardly

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Apr 19, 2010
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Kaulen Fuhs said:
Look, all I'm saying is that in the context of criminal justice, it's extremely hard for ANYONE to be accused of a hate crime, and that these men are trivializing the crime by claiming, rather flippantly, that they are victims of its execution.

Edit: Also, it occurs to me that we may be based out of different countries, and therefore might have different understandings. Here in the US, I meant, it is extremely difficult to charge someone with a hate crime.
I'm in the US. And I'm not talking about being charged with a hate crime. I'm sorry for any confusion on this, but I'm talking about the "court of public opinion," not a Court of Law.

In far too many cases, if a white male says anything remotely negative about a woman or a minority, he is treated like he just committed a hate crime (figuratively speaking) -- as though the only possible reason he would find any fault with this person is specifically because he's a white male and they're not.

I don't hear these guys running around claiming they are actually victims of hate crime. Just that there are situations in which they truly are discriminated against, but they're not allowed to say anything -- which is in itself another discriminatory practice.
 

Faladorian

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May 3, 2010
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Kahunaburger said:
There should be a variation of Godwin's Law where instead of comparing something to Nazism is grounds for an automatic loss, posting something by AmazingAthiest is grounds for same. Call it the Neckbeard Clause or something.
Haha, yeah it's pretty heavily abused. Although I wasn't really arguing anything, I was too tired to bother with anything other than linking a video
 

viranimus

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Nov 20, 2009
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Well aside from all the other references I would just point out that what this backlash stems from is two fold. The emmasculation of men within this generation and the males who perpetuate it as well as this being the first generation in the last thousand years or so where being white, male or christian is a bad thing, and being all three makes you just short of the devil incarnate. So in western cultures where males are in slight majority but are demeaned and treated to the stature of a minority over societal constriction, you really cant expect there to not be some sort of backlash, or at the very least resistance to it.

I honestly cant help but to wonder if one is not the cause of the other.
 

ImperialSunlight

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Nov 18, 2009
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I think the biggest problem with these rights groups is that they are "women's" rights groups and "Men's" rights groups. It should be a group composed of men and women that fights for EQUALITY of rights, not increased rights for a particular gender.