The king (Windows 10) is dead, all hail the new king (Windows 11)

Gordon_4

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Yes but not to the point where it should require everyone has the most recent hardware.
Trusted platform module chips have been around since 2006 and basically any laptop you have bought in the past five to ten years is going to have one. Desktop motherboards will be hit or miss but - as an example - my Asus B550 ROG Strix board doesn’t have the physical chip but the BIOS has an option to turn on a virtualised one which will pass the Windows 11 health check.

This is not an onerous requirement and anyone smart enough to know what they are, if they have have one and refuse on principle to get one is not a helpless lamb. They’re going to be a super user who will survive happily.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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Trusted platform module chips have been around since 2006 and basically any laptop you have bought in the past five to ten years is going to have one. Desktop motherboards will be hit or miss but - as an example - my Asus B550 ROG Strix board doesn’t have the physical chip but the BIOS has an option to turn on a virtualised one which will pass the Windows 11 health check.

This is not an onerous requirement and anyone smart enough to know what they are, if they have have one and refuse on principle to get one is not a helpless lamb. They’re going to be a super user who will survive happily.

You’re right in that it looks to be as simple as having PTT or the AMD equivalent enabled on boards that support it, but it’s like why go through this song and dance at all if it can in many cases be pretty easily overridden anyways? It all just seems kinda futile and silly for the TPM layer of security to be deemed so critical when Intel’s CSME it relies on is already bugged.

There will always be vulnerabilities, even self-inflicted by Microsoft itself. Coupled with the fact they’re also planning their own version of TPM to make the current solutions obsolete and this whole issue is like a dog chasing its tail.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Yes but not to the point where it should require everyone has the most recent hardware.
I mean, that is kinda how tech works. Plus there are still like 4 years till the assumed cutoff. You can bet that all newer hardware will comply with these requirements so its not like you will be left out to drift tomorrow.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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I mean, that is kinda how tech works. Plus there are still like 4 years till the assumed cutoff. You can bet that all newer hardware will comply with these requirements so its not like you will be left out to drift tomorrow.
Yeah I shoulda looked into it more initially as it might not be such a big deal, as highlighted by my previous post above.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Trusted platform module chips have been around since 2006 and basically any laptop you have bought in the past five to ten years is going to have one. Desktop motherboards will be hit or miss but - as an example - my Asus B550 ROG Strix board doesn’t have the physical chip but the BIOS has an option to turn on a virtualised one which will pass the Windows 11 health check.

This is not an onerous requirement and anyone smart enough to know what they are, if they have have one and refuse on principle to get one is not a helpless lamb. They’re going to be a super user who will survive happily.
That's the key phrase, "anyone smart enough to know what they are." I would say the vast majority of PC users have no idea how to get into their bios, or know what to do once they're in there, and it's not like microsoft provides any decent instructions.

The vast majority of people who have a pre-built will have no idea how to find the correct settings in their bios, or even know what kind of motherboard they have in order to find the correct instruction manual online for it.
 

Gordon_4

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That's the key phrase, "anyone smart enough to know what they are." I would say the vast majority of PC users have no idea how to get into their bios, or know what to do once they're in there, and it's not like microsoft provides any decent instructions.

The vast majority of people who have a pre-built will have no idea how to find the correct settings in their bios, or even know what kind of motherboard they have in order to find the correct instruction manual online for it.
It wouldn’t be appropriate for Microsoft to try and supply instructions because they aren’t the motherboard manufacturer and while a BIOS can only be designed so many ways they are different. If they do provide instructions it’s going to be in the vein of “Consult your support team”. Whether that is Dell/HP/Acer or the spotty teenager down the road, they’ll have an option.

And while I agree most users of computers do not understand them very well - and I include myself there - they’re mostly going to be adults who are capable of commonsense thinking and will seek aforementioned experts for their advice.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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And while I agree most users of computers do not understand them very well - and I include myself there - they’re mostly going to be adults who are capable of commonsense thinking and will seek aforementioned experts for their advice.
It's cute that you think that.

There's a reason that when you call tech support for a PC problem one of the first questions they ask is whether it's plugged in.
 

Gordon_4

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It's cute that you think that.

There's a reason that when you call tech support for a PC problem one of the first questions they ask is whether it's plugged in.
I did tech support for a combined ten years; I know the problem is nine times out of ten going to be the proverbial ID10T error.


But the presence of a TPM module is likely going to be a pre-installation check that runs and it will pass or fail. If it fails, the process rolls back and explains why to the user and they can rectify it if they give enough of a shit. If it passes, well then away it goes.
 

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I heard something about Win11 being required for the new SSD load functionality nonsense that the next gen consoles have(assuming you have a beefy enough SSD on your rig). So there should be gaming performance increases with Win11? Not too sure about it.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Additional information about what TPM is, why its required and how to bypass, at least, for now.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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Well it’s been officially confirmed -


No Group Policy/TPM work-arounds, meaning 8th gen Intel chips or 2nd gen AMD chips are a definitive “must” to install a clean, legit, non bootleg version of Window 11.

Yay, for probably 80-90% of the population that doesn’t have one of those chips and would need to pay top dollar during a global chip shortage to get one to use Microsoft’s upcoming OS. I’m going to wait and see how this all pans out, but worse comes to worst hopefully this won’t wreak even further havoc on chip availability in the next year or two.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Well it’s been officially confirmed -


No Group Policy/TPM work-arounds, meaning 8th gen Intel chips or 2nd gen AMD chips are a definitive “must” to install a clean, legit, non bootleg version of Window 11.

Yay, for probably 80-90% of the population that doesn’t have one of those chips and would need to pay top dollar during a global chip shortage to get one to use Microsoft’s upcoming OS. I’m going to wait and see how this all pans out, but worse comes to worst hopefully this won’t wreak even further havoc on chip availability in the next year or two.
Its not like they will be ending support for windows 10 soon. Plenty of time for more of them to show up, work arounds to be found, or microsoft to to back on it if adoption is low.
 

Gordon_4

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Well it’s been officially confirmed -


No Group Policy/TPM work-arounds, meaning 8th gen Intel chips or 2nd gen AMD chips are a definitive “must” to install a clean, legit, non bootleg version of Window 11.

Yay, for probably 80-90% of the population that doesn’t have one of those chips and would need to pay top dollar during a global chip shortage to get one to use Microsoft’s upcoming OS. I’m going to wait and see how this all pans out, but worse comes to worst hopefully this won’t wreak even further havoc on chip availability in the next year or two.
A 10th gen i3 10100F can be had at my online retailer for $129. So knock about 40% off that for the US price. A matching motherboard for $139. Storage and RAM have not visibly had any kind of shortage remotely like GPUs and Power Supplies. Like a TPM, this will not be an onerous bar to clear. And if they can’t then they can just keep running Windows 10 for the next four or so years - and I’ll eat a top hat if MS doesn’t extend support for it like they did with XP and 7 - and not care.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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This is most likely going to be a clusterfuck. Unsurprisingly the messaging involving this new iteration is yet to have any real thread of consistency.
Sounds like a feature to me. You mean Windows won't force restarts when you're using your computer and possibly break something? You really gotta go out of your way to disable Windows updates on Windows 10, and you just get that out of the box with Windows 11, sign me up!!!

Seriously though updates usually break more than they fix, I think I'll run the Spring 2020 version of Windows 10 for the next few years as it's just annoying as fuck debloating Windows after every feature update. I did the same with Win7, just ran it for like 5 years with no updating whatsoever. I literally just gave this spring's feature update an install tonight on my laptop (I imaged the C drive beforehand obviously so I can go right back) and my RAM usage increased by a full gig after a restart with nothing open and the processes running at startup increased from in the 60s to the 160s. Windows is just so bloated, it's great when you remove all the crap though.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.

hanselthecaretaker

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The irony is that, like oh, ALWAYS, someone will rather easily find a way around this latest hardware-prudent security measure. Oh wait, they already have -


That was back in 2019 btw. More recently-