The Lara Croft Redesign

[RelexCryo]

Lara Croft is supposed to be ridiculously strong- a hardcore strength trainer. She has consistently been shown lifting and pulling extremely heavy objects in her games. Please keep in mind, strength training and body building are not the same thing. When a woman strength trains, she develops very, very big breasts. Her pectoral muscles actually push her Breasts outwards and give them support. A woman with average breasts looks like Dolly Parton if she strength trains.

So, in reality, her having small breasts is not realistic. It is absurdly unrealistic. She is unrealistically flat chested. It looks like she has a childlike body just for the sake of having a childlike body. Explain this to me: How is this empowering to women? Women who strength train have giant looking boobs. For what concievable reason do you think making her look like a skinny underage kid is a good thing?

Just because she's athletic doesn't mean she strength trains. Hell, there's lots of people that have an athletic look to them, yet they barely lift weights. To do the things she does, she really needs a strong core, not super-huge pectorals. That would just mean a tight stomach, not huge breasts because of huge pectoral muscles. She doesn't necessarily have to be strong to push and pull heavy objects (I don't remember her ever lifting a heavy object, but then again I don't remember much from those games) You have to be able to use force in certain areas or use leverage.

So, in reality, her having small breasts actually is realistic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBf0x_zS-fU

2:20. That giant block? You normally pull it out of the way to get past it. Pushing and pulling that thing takes more than a strong core. There are other examples, but I am too tired to find them and post them here.

 

[RelexCryo]

snip...

Never said it was more realistic. I am pointing out that the current design is not realistic either. The design looks more childlike than strong. How is that empowering?

Who the hell is saying anything about empowering?! Why are you fixating on this?

Though, in response; if you really see her body as "childlike", there is something deeply fucking wrong with you, and by all means, yes, the new Lara certainly would seem more "empowering" for women than the silicon filled, collagen injected, half-naked Lara of past.

You want a realistic design? Give her the body of the strength trainer she supposedly was/is. Give her strong, toned, muscles. Giant looking boobs would also inevitably go with this body, simply because that is realiistic.

She doesn't need to be strong. For fuck's sake, look at some female athletes (not body builders).

Spoiler

Lolo Jones

Nastia Liukin

Amanda Beard

Mia Hamm

All incredibly athletic and physically capable women, all of which match up pretty well with the new Lara. To give her more muscle mass would make her impractical for endurance and agility.

They are athletes, not women who move giant blocks like this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBf0x_zS-fU

2:20

 

[SilverKyo]

I think she needs more cleavage.

I love you. Not for your post, don't really care about that, but purely for the fact that your name is the King of Rock and Roll and you have a Dio picture. Words can't describe my level of admiration

 

[Semudara]

The redesign looks good. She has what it takes to become an iconic character, recognizable on sight.

Yeah, she's starting all over. That's the point. It's for the best.

She WAS cool, but the series gradually messed her up. She DESERVES a fresh start, with everything that made her a great character in the first place.

 

[SilverKyo]

snip...

Never said it was more realistic. I am pointing out that the current design is not realistic either. The design looks more childlike than strong. How is that empowering?

Who the hell is saying anything about empowering?! Why are you fixating on this?

Though, in response; if you really see her body as "childlike", there is something deeply fucking wrong with you, and by all means, yes, the new Lara certainly would seem more "empowering" for women than the silicon filled, collagen injected, half-naked Lara of past.

You want a realistic design? Give her the body of the strength trainer she supposedly was/is. Give her strong, toned, muscles. Giant looking boobs would also inevitably go with this body, simply because that is realiistic.

She doesn't need to be strong. For fuck's sake, look at some female athletes (not body builders).

Spoiler

Lolo Jones

Nastia Liukin

Amanda Beard

Mia Hamm

All incredibly athletic and physically capable women, all of which match up pretty well with the new Lara. To give her more muscle mass would make her impractical for endurance and agility.

They are athletes, not women who move giant blocks like this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBf0x_zS-fU

2:20

uhh... just thought you might like to know... she squeezes past the block, she doesn't push it very far if at all... yea, your example is kind of invalid. if anything, her huge boobs are even more unrealistic with try to squeeze in the crack... and don't take that last statement out of context.

 

[RelexCryo]

snip...

Never said it was more realistic. I am pointing out that the current design is not realistic either. The design looks more childlike than strong. How is that empowering?

Who the hell is saying anything about empowering?! Why are you fixating on this?

Though, in response; if you really see her body as "childlike", there is something deeply fucking wrong with you, and by all means, yes, the new Lara certainly would seem more "empowering" for women than the silicon filled, collagen injected, half-naked Lara of past.

You want a realistic design? Give her the body of the strength trainer she supposedly was/is. Give her strong, toned, muscles. Giant looking boobs would also inevitably go with this body, simply because that is realiistic.

She doesn't need to be strong. For fuck's sake, look at some female athletes (not body builders).

Spoiler

Lolo Jones

Nastia Liukin

Amanda Beard

Mia Hamm

All incredibly athletic and physically capable women, all of which match up pretty well with the new Lara. To give her more muscle mass would make her impractical for endurance and agility.

They are athletes, not women who move giant blocks like this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBf0x_zS-fU

2:20

uhh... just thought you might like to know... she squeezes past the block, she doesn't push it very far if at all... yea, your example is kind of invalid. if anything, her huge boobs are even more unrealistic with try to squeeze in the crack... and don't take that last statement out of context.

The ability to jump though it is a glitch, more or less. You are supposed to pull the block out. There are other areas where you have to pull/push such blocks that can't be skipped so easily, as I recall.

 

[Savagezion]

snip...

-snip-

Wow...associating female empowerment with androgyny...is just overwhelmingly mysogynistic.

Is that really all you took from the entire post?

I wasn't giving examples of "female empowerment", I never even mentioned the term. What I did give were examples of prominent female characters in gaming that weren't ridiculously over sexualized like Bayonetta.

I love that I actually wrote "point being ...", and then stated the point I was making, and you're still so thick that you misconstrued it for something entirely different. Either that or you're trying to manipulate what I said to make me look bad and label me as "misogynistic".

Also, since when is being a tomboy the same thing as being androgynous?

Here is something I posted earlier:

Lara Croft is supposed to be ridiculously strong- a hardcore strength trainer. She has consistently been shown lifting and pulling extremely heavy objects in her games. Please keep in mind, strength training and body building are not the same thing. When a woman strength trains, she develops very, very big breasts. Her pectoral muscles actually push her Breasts outwards and give them support. A woman with average breasts looks like Dolly Parton if she strength trains.

So, in reality, her having small breasts is not realistic. It is absurdly unrealistic. She is unrealistically flat chested. It looks like she has a childlike body just for the sake of having a childlike body. Explain this to me: How is this empowering to women? Women who strength train have giant looking boobs. For what concievable reason do you think making her look like a skinny underage kid is a good thing?

Yes, because Lara Crofts body was o' so muscular before this. She sure did strength train those pecs. It's impeccable how she managed to isolate them too, because it's pretty much impossible to exercise pecs without also exercising back and/or arm muscles. She didn't exactly have a large trapezius to match her absurdly large tits pecs. Well developed legs too, huge quads too for all that hardcore pulling she does.

Honestly, it's actually pretty fucking hilarious that you're trying to defend the old Lara as being more realistic.

Never said it was more realistic. I am pointing out that the current design is not realistic either. The design looks more childlike than strong. How is that empowering?

You want a realistic design? Give her the body of the strength trainer she supposedly was/is. Give her strong, toned, muscles. Giant looking boobs would also inevitably go with this body, simply because that is realistic.

Guys, she is suppose to look young and fresh out of college. Read the article. It is a reboot not a sequel.

 

[mindlesspuppet]

They are athletes, not women who move giant blocks like this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBf0x_zS-fU

2:20

1. You're assuming this sort of thing will be in the new Tomb Raider.

2. You don't seem to realize that moving a solid block like that would be damn near impossible for anyone, regardless of how muscular they are, so the point is entirely fucking moot.

3. It's pretty obvious they are going in an athletic direction. Lara needs to be able to balance on ledges, jump across pits, and run through temples, she does not need to be able to throw the damn temple at an angry wolf. Again, being more muscular would impair her ability to do these things more than help.

Guys, she is suppose to look young and fresh out of college. Read the article. It is a reboot not a sequel.

Yes, I know, I mentioned this in a previous post.

 

[FirstPersonWinner]

Super-Snip

Never said it was more realistic. I am pointing out that the current design is not realistic either. The design looks more childlike than strong. How is that empowering?

You want a realistic design? Give her the body of the strength trainer she supposedly was/is. Give her strong, toned, muscles. Giant looking boobs would also inevitably go with this body, simply because that is realistic.

Um apparently you didn't get the memo but this isn't the same Lara Craft. This is a complete relaunch of the whole franchise. At this point she isn't a strength trainer or an expert Indiana Jone's esque archeologist. Also... Dude. While yes doing pectoral strength training will increase muscle size and in turn make breasts larger, it won't make them close to size of what the old Lara Croft's were... like ever. Unless she already had abnormally large breasts. And I don't think a girl just out of Harvard on her first archeological excavation is going to have found to much time for that extremeness or training.

Second if you think that that Lara looks like a man, you obviously don't hang out with women. Just saying. The porn you may look at doesn't count.

Super-Snip 2

Just want to say that something went odd here because it seems like your post quote failed. You were arguing against the things that the guy I quoted posted half the time and not me...

Also I wasn't stating those male characters to say they look like actual dudes (Because other than Nathan Drake they don't) I was using them as an idea that games are moving towards characters with human emotions and characters that are flawed and for all those characters very MORTAL. I mean why worry about Lara Craft, the perfect adventurer in her struggles? She's so perfect that nothing she can get out of anything really.

This new Lara is very Mortal and if she fails in this game will most likely die HORRIBLY (seriously if you read the article one of the ways they said they failed a sequence and her head was crushed by a boulder. and sploded.) It's just progress as movies and games go away from the Master Chief, Marcus Phoenix meat slabs and the Bayonetta porn star models for characters in games. I mean since when have movies starred a Rambo, John McClain, or Schwartzennager type action hero? Or at least one that wasn't crap?

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

She looks like Lara. I'm sorry OP but I just can't get on board with you on this. Just because your mom didn't recognize her didn't prove a thing. I've never played Tomb Raider and I still knew who it was when I saw the Redesign.

 

[SilverKyo]

snip...

Never said it was more realistic. I am pointing out that the current design is not realistic either. The design looks more childlike than strong. How is that empowering?

Who the hell is saying anything about empowering?! Why are you fixating on this?

Though, in response; if you really see her body as "childlike", there is something deeply fucking wrong with you, and by all means, yes, the new Lara certainly would seem more "empowering" for women than the silicon filled, collagen injected, half-naked Lara of past.

You want a realistic design? Give her the body of the strength trainer she supposedly was/is. Give her strong, toned, muscles. Giant looking boobs would also inevitably go with this body, simply because that is realiistic.

She doesn't need to be strong. For fuck's sake, look at some female athletes (not body builders).

Spoiler

Lolo Jones

Nastia Liukin

Amanda Beard

Mia Hamm

All incredibly athletic and physically capable women, all of which match up pretty well with the new Lara. To give her more muscle mass would make her impractical for endurance and agility.

They are athletes, not women who move giant blocks like this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBf0x_zS-fU

2:20

uhh... just thought you might like to know... she squeezes past the block, she doesn't push it very far if at all... yea, your example is kind of invalid. if anything, her huge boobs are even more unrealistic with try to squeeze in the crack... and don't take that last statement out of context.

The ability to jump though it is a glitch, more or less. You are supposed to pull the block out. There are other areas where you have to pull/push such blocks that can't be skipped so easily, as I recall.

ahh, well okay then. i never really played the old tomb raiders that much, didn't hold my attention that well. sidebar, if you're trying to go for "realism", why are you arguing for the older games. while not perfect, the reboot is certainly a step in the right direction realisticly over the old games

 

[RelexCryo]

snip...

Never said it was more realistic. I am pointing out that the current design is not realistic either. The design looks more childlike than strong. How is that empowering?

Who the hell is saying anything about empowering?! Why are you fixating on this?

Though, in response; if you really see her body as "childlike", there is something deeply fucking wrong with you, and by all means, yes, the new Lara certainly would seem more "empowering" for women than the silicon filled, collagen injected, half-naked Lara of past.

You want a realistic design? Give her the body of the strength trainer she supposedly was/is. Give her strong, toned, muscles. Giant looking boobs would also inevitably go with this body, simply because that is realiistic.

She doesn't need to be strong. For fuck's sake, look at some female athletes (not body builders).

Spoiler

Lolo Jones

Nastia Liukin

Amanda Beard

Mia Hamm

All incredibly athletic and physically capable women, all of which match up pretty well with the new Lara. To give her more muscle mass would make her impractical for endurance and agility.

They are athletes, not women who move giant blocks like this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBf0x_zS-fU

2:20

uhh... just thought you might like to know... she squeezes past the block, she doesn't push it very far if at all... yea, your example is kind of invalid. if anything, her huge boobs are even more unrealistic with try to squeeze in the crack... and don't take that last statement out of context.

The ability to jump though it is a glitch, more or less. You are supposed to pull the block out. There are other areas where you have to pull/push such blocks that can't be skipped so easily, as I recall.

ahh, well okay then. i never really played the old tomb raiders that much, didn't hold my attention that well. sidebar, if you're trying to go for "realism", why are you arguing for the older games. while not perfect, the reboot is certainly a step in the right direction realisticly over the old games

I wasn't supporting the old design, so much as pointing out that what Lara had to do in the Tomb Raider games would have meant that a strength trainer body type would have been more realistic. She would have to combine strength training with aerobics to do what she did.

 

[Super Toast]

So far the best representation of a strong female character is Bayonetta.
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/2/20608/1238292-bayo_bayonetta_super.jpg

HAHAHA! OH WOW!

OT: I think she looks good.

 

[alimination602]

Political corrrectness strikes again.

I admit i've only got into the series recently when it made the jump to 360. In terms of the games i've played i thought Legend was fantastic, Underworld was pretty bad and the DLC's released for Underworld were just daylight robbery by someone jiggling boobs in my face. The second one was padded to the extent that you play through a level, you go back watch a breif cutscene and then instantly traverse the same rooms via the same path to undo it all!

But in terms of the charecter redesign i think it's an attempt by the creators to try and dispell the stereotype that Lara is just some giant breasts on legs who jumps around alot and they're trying to revamp the series in an attempt to stir up debate and make their latest game (Despite the fact it has the number 9 attached) to seem new.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

I fully support the redesign. Lara Croft was never much of a character. She has always been little more than an avatar. While the treasure hunter girl idea is sound enough, there never was much holding it up.

While it might make more sense to just call it a new character altogether ultimately the name still (somehow) has value.

Besides, at least I could expect a woman built like that to actually manage to scale a rock face. I don't know how the original version managed it when fully half her mass was located in her chest.

 

[FirstPersonWinner]

I think it looks good, she looks more like a proportioned human being now but
ATTENTION DEVELOPERS!
you do NOT make a strong female character by making her manly, the original Laura Croft was fairly feminine and flirtatious then she turned into the emotionless tough girl that everyone expects from games and abandoned every personality aspect that made her female. so far the best representation of a strong female character is Bayonetta.

[PIC SNIP]

so quick checklist
strong willed and doesn't need a man but is still attracted to them and shows it: check
still maintains a love for stereotypically "Girly" things because she personally enjoys them and knows it doesn't make her "weak": check
in touch with and in complete acceptance of her sexuality: check
maternal instinct without being "Baby crazy" or wanting children: check
one statement in Bayonetta summed up the whole character
"Do I look like I enjoy children? well making them, that's another story"
wow that was quite a rant.

First off, I think you think that because that picture is of her just being in a shipwreck and escaping a scary death cave only to find herself trapped on an island and that makes her unfeminine and not girly. What? Girls cant get flipping dirt on their clothes after being held hostage without being too manlike? I'm sorry she isn't as stain resistant as Bayonetta, who by the way doesn't act like a strong woman, she acts like a hooker/a sociopath. I'm sorry if the women don't flirt with the characters before MURDERING THEM but most people probably don't. It is nice for once to have a main character who isn't alright with going around, again, MURDERING PEOPLE. This Lara, being a normal fresh out of college girl, isn't to familiar with that experience, and does have to get alright within the story with taking someone else's life for her survival.

 

[Weaver]

So the industry is still going with "MAKE IT GRITTY! MAKE IT REAL!"?
I really wish they had learned by now.

 

[FirstPersonWinner]

So the industry is still going with "MAKE IT GRITTY! MAKE IT REAL!"?
I really wish they had learned by now.

Well. Kinda. This is kind of how Lara Croft should be without being a shooter. If they redid a platform, puzzle, shooter archeologist game we'd have nother Uncharted series. They are trying to switch it up to be more of a puzzle/survival game, and for survival you kind of have to make it gritty and realistic.

 

[Weaver]

so far the best representation of a strong female character is Bayonetta.

Are you shitting me? Bayonetta is like everything that is wrong with stereotypical female video game characters. She is basically just a pair of walking boobies and there is almost no effort made to make it look otherwise. Did you even look at the very screenshot that you posted?

I fully disagree. I understand why a lot of people think this way, but the character runs on several levels that seemingly 99% of gamers didn't seem to understand. I know not everyone has taken courses in studying literature, film and characters so I'll let old Movie Bob do the talking:

http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/game-overthinker-32-bayonetta/341237

I'm also apparently the only one in the world who thinks Bayonetta is an action comedy game, so take my rants with a grain of salt I guess.

 

[FirstPersonWinner]

so far the best representation of a strong female character is Bayonetta.

Are you shitting me? Bayonetta is like everything that is wrong with stereotypical female video game characters. She is basically just a pair of walking boobies and there is almost no effort made to make it look otherwise. Did you even look at the very screenshot that you posted?

I fully disagree. I understand why a lot of people think this way, but the character runs on several levels that seemingly 99% of gamers didn't seem to understand. I know not everyone has taken courses in studying literature, film and characters so I'll let old Movie Bob do the talking:

http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/game-overthinker-32-bayonetta/341237

I'm also apparently the only one in the world who thinks Bayonetta is an action comedy game, so take my rants with a grain of salt I guess.

No it's just Bayonetta is the Woman equivalent of Kratos in a game. It's the ridiculous perfectly powerful and always on their side of the fence sexuality wise.

Sure Kratos is the manly man dudes would want to be and Bayonetta probably the highest Woman equivalent in games, they are just a bit over the top. Especially when you are talking about trying to make a more realistic character in a realistic game.

I mean think of the most man empowered dude in a game, probably can't beat Kratos. But would you want a Kratos starring in EVERY GAME? Same with Bayonetta. It's a great character idea in those games that are just meant to be over the top, but when we are talking a character with any kind of development in a game or really what are known as "Human Emotions" it doesn't work. That's the problem here. To have Lara Craft = Bayonetta this would have to become some insane action /adventure/shooter death spree that the creators are not trying to make.