The Last of Us: Plot/Ending Discussion

[Glongpre]

I haven't played the game,(don't have a ps3) and I watched only the ending on youtube but damn that was a satisfying ending. I liked it as much as the bioshock endings and I haven't even played the game.

I wish they had done an ending like that for Mass Effect, in fact I thought to do anything else after what the character learned about the reapers in me1, would involve a deus ex machina and look what happened. Anyway...

It makes me want to buy a ps3.

 

[Azure23]

Absolute masterpiece of a game, and a title that gets virtually everything right. Naughty Dog once again proves their pedigree for making unmatched experiences.

I never expected them to be able to craft such an intense yet restrained drama though.

And points if you noticed the Jak and Daxter pinatas.

Also, is that Savage Starlight a real comic strip or what? Because it seemed remarkably authentic for it to be just a joke comic. Though it wouldn't surprise me with the amount of detail Naughty Dog put in the environment.

Well, I did see a Dark Horse Comics logo on the back, so they could be real. If not now, maybe later.

OH! You know what Naughty Dog should do for DLC?! They should make one like the Far Cry: Blood Dragon/ Boarderlands 2 Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep.

It can start with Joel getting Ellie the last Savage Starlight issue, and have her deciding to go back and read them all in order. Then we can get to play as Daniela, kicking ass all over the galaxy fighting the Travelers!

Yeah, it's a long shot, but I can hope.

Somebody give this man a job at Naughtydog! Brilliant idea!

As for my take on the ending? Screw those Fireflies, they tried to kill a little girl for some bullshit false hope. All throughout the game Joel talks about how he believes that the fireflies only deal in false hope as a means to get people to follow them. The entire reason why Tommy left is because he realized the futility of their vision and went off to create something better, a safe community for the few good people left to live in. It would have been ridiculously out of character for Joel to leave Ellie to the surgery, because on some level he simply doesn't believe that they have the know how or resources to create a vaccine (once again, not a cure). Or, even if they had, how were they going to distribute it with the pitiful amount of resources available to them? They had a small militia at the hospital (much smaller after I was done with them) and a few scientists. Was the Military faction really just going to let them sieze power with their vaccine? No, they would have been wiped out if they had gone public with it. Joel was not dooming humanity with his actions, he was preserving his own. And no, Ellie would not have let them kill her, I mean, did you guys play the same game I did? That girl's survival instincts are ridiculous. Yes, she does show all the signs of some serious Survivor's Guilt, but that doesn't mean that she wants to die. And nowhere was it ever stated she was given a choice, she passed out in the underground tunnel, and woke up again in the back of Joel's stolen car. Marlene says that "it's what she would have wanted" but how can she know that? Ellie was changed after her year with Joel, she was looking forward to living with him, he was going to teach her how to play guitar, and swim, and who knows what else. She says it herself, he was the only one who never abandoned her, for him to do so in the hospital would've been a gross betrayal. I don't know about anyone else but the themes of fatherhood in this game really got to me, when the time came to rescue Ellie I went through those fireflies with a sense of urgency that I'd never felt before in a videogame. I didn't bother with stealth, I kneecapped the first firefly I saw and took him hostage, killed everyone around him with that (amazing) handcannon and then he got a shiv to the throat. And thats how it went through that level, I was actually angry at them. When the time came for that final run through the hospital with Ellie in his arms I was honestly tearing up. The devs were purposely invoking your memories of the opening of the game, I was sure Ellie was going to catch a stray bullet and Joel would once again be left broken. When Joel shot Marlene I didn't feel conflicted, I felt relieved, the deciscion had been made, and it kept Ellie safe. I imagine Joel felt relieved too as he drove away from the hospital. That was something new for me, sure when I played Bioshock Infinite I liked Elizabeth, she was cool and fun, and sure I got some dark satisfaction when Booker promised to kill Comstock for her, but caring? I cared about Ellie.

Kudos Naughtydog for creating a character that I could inhabit, instead of just control. For me next gen is here, and it doesn't mean better graphics or a more "immersive experience," It means narratives that can affect me on that emotional level. Fucking amazing job Naughty Dog, I have a new favorite game.

 

[Juan Regular]

What does the title mean for you by the way? Is Ellie the Last of Us, meaning she is the last hope or the last innocent or something along those lines? I can't really come up with a satisfying explanation for it.

 

[Zhukov]

What does the title mean for you by the way? Is Ellie the Last of Us, meaning she is the last hope or the last innocent or something along those lines? I can't really come up with a satisfying explanation for it.

Ellie is the last and only thing Joel has. Joel is the last and only thing Ellie has.

That's what I thought it meant anyway.

...

Come to think of it, Ellie being "the last hope" probably makes more sense.

 

[Casual Shinji]

What does the title mean for you by the way? Is Ellie the Last of Us, meaning she is the last hope or the last innocent or something along those lines? I can't really come up with a satisfying explanation for it.

I think the title simply means "the last of us that are still alive". Throughout the game you're given the impression of pockets of human settlements and survivors in the wasteland. This includes raider camps. And over time most if not all of these groups whittling down till there are only a handful of people left - The last of that group still living. Same goes for Joel and Ellie, who meet other people along their journey, but always end up being the last ones still pressing onward.

I also think it's kind of an Omega Man reference, with the last man on Earth and the sense of destitution and all.

 

[Windcaler]

The only person with parental responsibility over her is Joel, who clearly doesn't wish her to have the operation.

That ones actually questionable at best. Marlene had parental custody of Ellie ever since Ellie's mom died (I think her name was Anna?). She gave temporary custody to Tess/Joel because she couldn't be Ellie's guardian at the time and didn't think she could protect her and get her where she needed to go.

When Ellie was back in Marlenes custody, well there is a question of did Marlene become her guardian again and did Joel stop being her guardian. To those questions I think the answers are Yes and no respectively. So theres kind of this idea of two guardians of a child thinking whats best is different as well.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Just completed the game, and I gotta say, it's probably the best swan song the PS3 could hope for.


The attention to detail was absolutely astounding, I loved every minute of it.

 

[Miss G.]

I'm with Joel.

I could sympathize with the Fireflies, but for one crucial thing: They never asked Ellie if she was okay with it. Hell, if they had, she may well have submitted. If they had, and she accepted it, and the game gave you a choice, I would have let them do it.

Of course, Joel didn't ask her either. But between the two parties I'm inclined toward the one who isn't planning on murder. Although I do like that in the end it came down to two people trying to do different versions of the right thing.

Besides, at the end of the day, what kind of parent, even adoptive/surrogate parent, would let their kid essentially be killed in her sleep?

Plus, I've always been a sucker for characters who say, "I'm saving the one(s) I care about and fuck your greater good with an extra large pineapple."

That was how felt. It's very easy to sit back and condemn Joel from a distanced, lofty position but if it had been me in his position (and with his ruthless capability for violence) I would have saved Ellie. It's not the logical thing, nor is it the heroic thing, but it is the humane thing.

Right outside the hospital, when you meet the giraffes, I realised what was so special about Naughty Dog's apocalypse. It isn't desolate. It isn't a barren wasteland of fear, and hatred, and loathing. This is a beautiful place, reclaimed by nature and full of life. Just because it isn't human life doesn't make it less valuable or less meaningful. To murder a young girl for some lofty, idealistic view of rebuilding an inherently vicious and desperate species seemed utterly despicable.

I'm with you. We are completely unnecessary in the grand scheme of things, as many of the plausible 'population-0' type of documentaries (or even just our history) have shown we're more of a hindrance at best and a blight at worst. There are no downsides, only benefits for nature in regards to our extinction. That's why I believe this story truly is about the last of us.

 

[snowmaneddy]

What does the title mean for you by the way? Is Ellie the Last of Us, meaning she is the last hope or the last innocent or something along those lines? I can't really come up with a satisfying explanation for it.

I think the title simply means "the last of us that are still alive". Throughout the game you're given the impression of pockets of human settlements and survivors in the wasteland. This includes raider camps. And over time most if not all of these groups whittling down till there are only a handful of people left - The last of that group still living. Same goes for Joel and Ellie, who meet other people along their journey, but always end up being the last ones still pressing onward.

I was thinking along those same lines. Maybe it's something like "This is The Last of Us" where the game is basically giving you a look at what humanity has become/degenerated into in its final days.

Also, I wanted to ask you guys: Do you think Ellie overcomes her survivors' guilt and "lives happily ever after" (if that's even possible)? On one hand, I like to think that she overcomes her suvivors' guilt and lives on to learn about giraffes, swimming, and playing guitars with Joel because he refuses to abandon her, etc. etc. But at the same time, I always wondered if Ellie plays along with the lie, but secretly hates Joel for saving her and remains in that distant state where she's just off in her own little world (sort of like immediately after the Winter portion of the game when she'll just be staring blankly at things or looking down at her feet).

What do you guys think?

 

[Saxm13]

I gotta say.

I finished the game feeling frustrated and cheated at another "depressing resolution-less" ending from a recent video game. It felt like Mass Effect 3 and Bioshock Infinite all over again.

Came here ready to complain about it, but after reading some of these breakdowns and discussions regarding Joel's decision, I think I'm really starting to warm up to the symbolism of it all.

When I first finished it, it felt like there was a missing chapter afterwards. An easy infected sneaking room and some firefights with a bunch of soldiers and thats it? Maybe I just more used to Uncharted's bombastically grand finales or something. And after what ME3 pulled, I was surprised more people weren't complaining about Last Of Us' equally unresolved conclusions.

Basically I felt cheated paying $60 for what i thought was meant to be the "last great current gen title" and not getting any payoff storywise.

But after reading these posts I think I understand that Last Of US was about a different kind of payoff. Maybe not an emotionally epic one that I was hoping for but it's definitely WORTH something.

TL;DR: Thanks for bringing value to a game that I felt cheated by.

Cheers Escapists =)

 

[mbarker]

I thought the ending had a good twist, Joel lied to her because he knew she would have willingly died a martyr if she was only told the truth. After the story of her friend at the end of the game he realized that he didn't save her.Joel had to lie to Ellie to stop her from hating him.

It was shown that even though as the hardened survivor that Joel was he needed Ellie more than she needed him. He was only a protector while she provided something more to Joel, Not as a daughter replacement tho.

When she accepted Joel's story as truth I would like to think she belived him demonstrating her level of trust, but you could also say that she has lost her innocence and is beginning to doubt even Joel. A good sequel can come from this game, and I'm pretty sure one will be made. Right after the DLC which I don't think should be made.

 

[Brown Cap]

When I got the the operation room, I actually tried for six minutes to just leave. As if I had a choice, I just wanted to walk away. But the doctor wouldn't move, and no door would open...
I'm thinking - Joel, you selfish sack of shit...
I understand all of the whys, the hows, and I accept everything, but seriously Joel?
I don't blame him. I know why he did it. All of the psychological analyses make sense.

I didn't want to do it though. I'm pretty upset with Joel. The ending was fantastic, but I wasn't happy about it.

 

[Arkley]

I love the ending for a reason so simple that it can be summed up in a single sentence; Joel made the wrong choice, and it was the exact same choice I would have made.

It would have served humanity better to let Ellie die to bring about a vaccine, Ellie would have wanted to die to give humanity that vaccine, and it would have been the better choice to allow that to happen.

I know all of this, objectively, and I'm sure Joel does, too. He "rescued" Ellie for purely selfish reasons, and I would have attempted exactly the same thing. It's a brilliantly human thing that Joel does, and as ultimately wrong as it is, it's thoroughly understandable.

So that's why I love it. I would have cut my way through the hospital, I would have taken Ellie, I would have killed Marlene, and I would have lied to Ellie about all of it. It's all wrong, and I would have done it regardless.

 

[mbarker]

I would have done what Joel did as well, despite the good for humanity Ellie could have done. Humanity be damned Joel can trust Ellie to keep him alive, she can trust that Joel will keep her alive and in The Last of Us a partnership like that is near impossible to find. He justified his actions as: Ellies death wouldn't have even brought a cure and nothing would have changed if she died. It's an understandable stance to take.

I don't think saving Ellie was anymore complicated than that through Joel's eyes, and I think he made the right choice.

Even when I was playing the game I was of the mind that this disaster was just mother natures way of restoring the earths natural ballance.

 

[Raggedstar]

Pretty much everything I would've said has already been mentioned regarding who was right/wrong. I was discussing this game a lot with friends and other forums, and I ended up just repeating a lot of interesting points here. Really had a lot of fun reading everyone's responses though, as I have with a lot of other responses with games like Bioshock Infinite.

I honestly don't know if I was ok with the decision. I was sitting around afterwards trying to think about it. As mentioned, this is a really bleak, open-ended ending. I'm sure Joel wasn't 100% ok with how it turned out either, but the difference is that regardless whether it was "ok" or not, it was the right one to him (and it was totally in character). Since this game is all about Joel , I can accept that. Glad this didn't end up as some random, shoveled in moral choice for dual endings. But still, even after nearly a week of completing it, I'm STILL not sure what I would've done. I know most people here say that Joel was justified, but at least can acknowledge that it's a shitty situation no matter what.

As a kid (I'm talking about the late 90s) I've always been more attached to Insomniac than Naughty Dog. More love for Spyro than Crash, Ratchet than Jak, and...er...Ratchet than Uncharted (well, I prefer Uncharted over Resistance). Insomniac had the better story and gameplay, while Naughty Dog was always absolutely stellar in colour and animation (look at Daxter move when Jak moves, especially when he spins. LOOK!) The first half of this generation has been pretty much the same affiliation, but then starting after All 4 One came out and Insomniac continuing to not want my money, I've been looking more fondly at Naughty Dog and is the reason why I bought this game full price on release day. And damn it, I'm impressed. I guess gameplay is the weakest part of the game, but only because it's good/functional while the rest is fantastic. Throughout playing their games, Naughty Dog has never really wowed me for writing (outside of entertaining banter and one-liners like in the Jak and Uncharted games), but this shows me what they're capable of. I actually doubted them weeks before I bought this game ("Well, I'm sure this is going to be just like The Walking Dead meets Uncharted but none of the former's gripping story") and I love being wrong in cases like this. Job well done, you Naughty Dogs. Well done.

But I will never forget how shitty Jak 3's story was.
Never.

When I got the the operation room, I actually tried for six minutes to just leave. As if I had a choice, I just wanted to walk away. But the doctor wouldn't move, and no door would open...
I'm thinking - Joel, you selfish sack of shit...

I actually felt something similar. I was faced with the doctor and nurses and I didn't know what to do. I tried to trigger something with Ellie and it didn't work. Pulled out my gun, and they stayed. Shot the air and ground with a pistol to scare them off, but nope. I had a bit of that "sack of shit" realization too. I also tried to shoot them in their feet, but they died (and reacted as if I shot them in the head or chest). It would've been hilarious if this situation wasn't so emotionally tense.

I guess another question would be if you're able to spare the two nurses. I tried to press buttons near Ellie after I killed the doctor, but nothing happened. Worked after I killed the nurses. Is that how you're supposed to play or am I just a horrible person? D:

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

I am A-OK with what Joel did, because really what good would a vaccine be anymore? Even thinking way down the road, how the hell would the Fireflies, who are just barely hanging on themselves, be able to distribute enough of a vaccine to make a real difference? And that's considering they could even make a working vaccine, which I doubt.

Resistance 3, note how hopeless it was while the Chimera converted everyone, when Hale gave his life and a vaccine was made, humanity actually had chance knowing that they wouldn't have to worry about being turned into biological components for an unfeeling war machine and do what they do best: fight.

 

[mbarker]

I am A-OK with what Joel did, because really what good would a vaccine be anymore? Even thinking way down the road, how the hell would the Fireflies, who are just barely hanging on themselves, be able to distribute enough of a vaccine to make a real difference? And that's considering they could even make a working vaccine, which I doubt.

Resistance 3, note how hopeless it was while the Chimera converted everyone, when Hale gave his life and a vaccine was made, humanity actually had chance knowing that they wouldn't have to worry about being turned into biological components for an unfeeling war machine and do what they do best: fight.

TLoU was man versus man not Man vs. beast like in Resistance because of this I could see how such a vaccine would cause even a larger collapse of society, especially if the fight is between the established government and a rebel group.

If a cure was made I don't think it would bring a world in this condition together. There is no outside force to make everyone rally together.

 

[MustardTiger]

See, I don't think Ellie would have sacrificed herself at the chance to make a vaccine. Not only do i fully agree with everybody else in this thread with their given reasons, but there is another part in the game i noticed on my second play through.

When you're in Pittsburgh, and you reach the highway with all the jumbled up cars, you can trigger a conversation with Ellie where she asks what happened. Joel explains that it was most likely the military that killed them, as the couldn't let everybody through, and dead people don't get infected.

Then they say:
Joel: "You Sacrifice the few to save the many"
Ellie: "That's kinda shitty"
Joel: "Yeah"

So given that, its more reason to believe that Ellie wouldn't have gone through with it had she been given the choice at the end.

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

And the worst part is that The vaccine doesn't so much as end the Clicker problem as merely neutralize the threat well enough so they can focus on what's more "important". Namely killing Raiders and Military.

@mbarker

I can see your point, worst case scenario, they send the Clickers on the military.

 

[OldDirtyCrusty]

I really dig all these discussion threads and i`d like to point out that Ellie never knew that helping the fireflys would mean sacrificing herself. There is this discussion shortly before they reach the hospital. Joel says that they don`t have to do this, they can turn back and go back to Tommys place but Ellie wants to get to the fireflys ("...it would have been for nothing."). She also says that they can do wathever they want after they are finished. Both aren`t aware of what Marlene is planning.

I`m still not sure if Joels lie would have been necessary. Ellies greatest fear was being by herself.
As for saving/ rebuilding humanity: the world seems to be doing just fine without humans. Besides it really looks like the last of humanity is doing a mighty fine job on destroying itself for the most part. Thommys people seem to be the only ones getting their act together without fighting for power like the military and the fireflys or turning into killermachines (hunters, Tess and Joel). There doesn`t seem to much worth saving, sure as hell not the great cause of the fireflys.