The last thing we watched, cartoon/animu edition

meiam

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So torture porn in animated form. No thank you.
It's a shame because the rest of the show is really good, but there's a lot of off putting torture stuff, like the character getting detention at school and being tied up in a sexual way, it literally serves no purpose. The author also seem to have a fetish for little kid pissing themselves as it happens multiple time.
 
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It's a shame because the rest of the show is really good, but there's a lot of off putting torture stuff, like the character getting detention at school and being tied up in a sexual way, it literally serves no purpose. The author also seem to have a fetish for little kid pissing themselves as it happens multiple time.
Well the author can go fuck off; including the execs up top that's signed off on his projects, and the sick fans that enjoys this type of stuff.
 

Casual Shinji

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So torture porn in animated form. No thank you.
I'd go out on a limb and say it's creepier than torture porn. Torture porn generally is meant to deeply disturb the viewer, the stuff you see in Made in Abyss feels like, well, guro; sexualizing gore. And of little kids no less. It's got weird shit with bellybuttons and prolapses, just... yeah. :sick:

And like meiam said, it's a real shame, because the story concept is very unique and bursting with twisted, creative posibilities.
 

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Torture porn generally is meant to deeply disturb the viewer, the stuff you see in Made in Abyss feels like, well, guro; sexualizing gore.
As far as I'm concerned, it's just a lower level of torture porn. You can still be torture porn, and not be the Saw sequels, it's rip-offs, or LOUS2.

And like meiam said, it's a real shame, because the story concept is very unique and bursting with twisted, creative posibilities.
So I've heard and checked on TV tropes. The reason why it became a sleeper hit in the US, because they toned it down for the anime version. Still made people in the US feel uncomfortable, yet people in Europe were a bit more lenient apparently. I did not see that coming. Funny enough, even parts of the the Japanese thought the child nudity and the torture of the characters was going on too much at certain points. So even they have their limits, even if it takes them a good while.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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Wait, did the show actually make a Western or stateside release? So apparently this and Elfen Lied got a free pass, but Interspecies Reviewers didn't?
I mean, Interspecies Reviewers almost didn't get a pass in Japan either, got dropped by a couple stations. Too much consensual sex work amongst adults is my guess*. Didn't really have that rapey, slavery feel that Redo of Healer or Slave Harem in the Labyrinth of the Other World has, you know?


*(That's a lie, it's because of the furry lesbian episode.)**

**(That's a double lie, it's because the stations that bought it thought it was going to be closer to the manga, which had fewer and less explicit sex scenes. Like, riding the line between soft core and hardcore that Redo shied away from, even if it had way more taste)

Bitching about "sexy" anime aside, I gotta say Interspecies Reviewers was ultimately a disappointment for me. The sex scenes were top notch, and if the team went back they could easily make it an explicitly adult porn show. Which they should do, because spending more time on the sex would let them cut out their terrible padding. Like goddamn, that manga wasn't that funny but it had some solid gags here and there. The Anime adaptation had to fill in so much time that they absolutely butchered the content, timing, and delivery of the jokes into being just terrible.

Ironically, while I'd give the anime a 5/10 for being mostly bad with a few flashes of brilliance and the manga a 5/10 for being the sex equivalent of a food travelogue starring people who only like plain hamburgers and chicken tendies, the Interspecies Reviewers Anthology manga are absolutely a delight, as they're written by a variety of mangaka that are funnier, kinkier, and more down with monster-fucking that the source material. 9/10 if you like sexy stuff with some fur and tails.
 

PsychedelicDiamond

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Ever watched Made in Abyss? Fucking oof! The child nudity and, maybe even worse, child anguish/guro fetish is off the charts. Japan weirdly gets a free pass from this stuff not just inside of the country but outside as well.
I haven't seen Made in Abyss but I've heard of it. Honestly, I just feel that there is just this dominant frat boy culture in overall anime discourse. Obviously I can't speak for what it's like in the Japanese speaking fanbase, but you watch English speaking anime YouTube and you get the impression it's made up mostly of those "ironically" sleazy nerds in their 20's and thirties. It's not too dissimilar to what the culture around video games used to be a good 10 years ago, which, of course, is now the focus of a lot of misplaced nostalgia. It's not so much actually malicious sexism, for the most part, as that it's what you get when the culture both among creators and consumers is male dominated.

Now, in games, that topic, the weird treatment of female characters in games, was pretty much dragged into the spotlight kicking and screaming, and not without some vitriolic resistance. And not so much by the general audience as it was by maturing subculture of gaming enthusiasts that found their way into the journalistic and critical circles and managed to bring some exposure to these topics because they felt it was about time that games got the same respect, but also the same scrutiny, as other highly popular artforms.

I feel like with anime, at least as far as I can tell from a western perspective, not only does that critical scene not exist, not even any real professional media engaging with it does. Mainly because the serious film and television crowd doesn't much care about it, leaving mostly a bunch of nerds who take all the things that an outsider would take issue with for granted. Which is a shame, because I know for a fact that the actual audience of anime doesn't exclusively consist of the horny straight male nerds that at this point almost singoe handedly represent it publicly.
 

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I feel like with anime, at least as far as I can tell from a western perspective, not only does that critical scene not exist, not even any real professional media engaging with it does.
It tried, and was during the late 90s and early 2000s, but most were not much help. Even ANN became nothing more than a semi-Wikipedia and just a plain news site as the years went on. Most reviewers are/were either nerds or anime nerds themselves, on YouTube, Blip TV, or Channel Awesome (Nostalgia Critic's Website). Blip TV does not exist anymore, and we all know about the fallout from Channel Awesome where everyone left after the harassments and abuse allegations. Though some reviewers left before fallout either, because they saw things coming, or wanted to do their own thing. Bennett the Sage/Anime Abandon being one of them. He's actually one of my favorite anime reviewers, as he got better, and less angry reviewer/"AVGN, but for anime" by the mid 2010s. Sage improved a lot and while still don't agree with everything on him, I am glad he does not act like an asshole anymore.
 
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It tried too and was during the late 90s and early 2000s, but most were not much help. Even ANN
This whole discussion reminds me of that one ANN writer who said Nisemonogatari's fanservice was actually anti-fanservice, because the director selected shots as if the female character was in control of the camera, the context being Nadeko trying to seduce Araragi. Aha, so it's technically not the male gaze but a female expression that retains agency.

Post hoc rationalization aside, it raises the question, how would we know the Nadeko wanted the camera to be in a specific location? She's not a real person with any agency. Also, couldn't you use the exact same argument with any overtly sexual character? I don't think a Bayonetta would choose an aerial shot over a 14mm closeup. But then how would we know any character isn't secretly a real freak in the sheets?

It also raises another question, why is fanservice okay just because there is literary merit behind it? The ANN writer said the toothbrush scene was symbolic for something important, but why would that make it okay for one show and not another? The scene obviously represents oral sex between Araragi and his sister. Even if the ANN writer was right, the scene does not justify its existence.

And that's why I don't take anime critics seriously, or any critic as a matter.
 

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This whole discussion reminds me of that one ANN writer who said Nisemonogatari's fanservice was actually anti-fanservice, because the director selected shots as if the female character was in control of the camera, the context being Nadeko trying to seduce Araragi. Aha, so it's technically not the male gaze but a female expression that retains agency.
Sounds like the writer was sniffing their own farts in the wind. Never seen nor heard of this anime, but I can tell they were trying to justify bad fan-service with mental gymnastic bullshit.


Post hoc rationalization aside, it raises the question, how would we know the Nadeko wanted the camera to be in a specific location? She's not a real person with any agency. Also, couldn't you use the exact same argument with any overtly sexual character? I don't think a Bayonetta would choose an aerial shot over a 14mm closeup. But then how would we know any character isn't secretly a real freak in the sheets?
Ha!

It also raises another question, why is fanservice okay just because there is literary merit behind it? The ANN writer said the toothbrush scene was symbolic for something important, but why would that make it okay for one show and not another? The scene obviously represents oral sex between Araragi and his sister. Even if the ANN writer was right, the scene does not justify its existence.
I never cared too much for ANN, even back then. They were only useful for information (I rarely touched any reviews from them), and that stopped being relevant for me around 2008. Them trying to justify something that depraved, sets off a ton of red flags for me.

And that's why I don't take anime critics seriously, or any critic as a matter.
Most I don't like nor care for in general, but there are quite a few I respect. or like watch/hear/read their views when needed.
 
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Sounds like the writer was sniffing their own farts in the wind. Never seen nor heard of this anime, but I can tell they were trying to justify bad fan-service with mental gymnastic bullshit.
I think he just likes the show despite of the fanservice. Personally I think the Monogatari series is just not good. It's like Ghost Stories (not the dub), but none of the stories are scary. There's some avant-garde directing that makes you think there's something's there but, there's not.

I never cared too much for ANN, even back then. They were only useful for information (I rarely touched any reviews from them), and that stopped being relevant for me around 2008. Them trying to justify something that depraved, sets off a ton of red flags for me.
I'm not trying to dunk on the guy, he makes very good points. For example he also said that K-On and moe anime was perverse, because even if there isn't any sexual content you're following high school girls around with a camera, so it's equivalent to voyeurism. That has always stuck with me.

Of course I don't care if someone likes K-On or not. I like K-On, but it's an amusing insight.
Most I don't like nor care for in general, but there are quite a few I respect. or like watch/hear/read their views when needed.
I think reading reviews or critics poisons the experience. Even spoiler-free, once somebody tells you what's good and what's bad you're already looking out for it. I also think even after you watch something it can make you think a certain way that's not authentic.

I think the best way to experience something is just to take it in as an individual experience, and then just think about it, or discuss it with someone else. Of course not everybody has that time, and watching people critique things is entertaining, so eh whatever.
 

BrawlMan

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I think he just likes the show despite of the fanservice. Personally I think the Monogatari series is just not good. It's like Ghost Stories (not the dub), but none of the stories are scary. There's some avant-garde directing that makes you think there's something's there but, there's not.
Good for him; I am not invested.

I'm not trying to dunk on the guy, he makes very good points. For example he also said that K-On and moe anime was perverse, because even if there isn't any sexual content you're following high school girls around with a camera, so it's equivalent to voyeurism. That has always stuck with me.

Of course I don't care if someone likes K-On or not. I like K-On, but it's an amusing insight.
Ok, still not interested. I never cared for K-On either. So not for me.

I think reading reviews or critics poisons the experience.
That depends. If I already seen the movie or show, then it's usually not a problem. If I am not invested in, or I know the media is going to be total trash, I'll watch the review, because the person usually knows what they're talking about. Even when I disagree with said person. Then again, I am not like certain assholes online who parrots reviews 24/7, and try to come off as clever or geniuses for it. I don't waste looking at every review for something. I know myself on what interests me or nor, if I like something or nor, or if I have the time for it. I can decide for myself. I learned that the easy way a long time ago.

Of course not everybody has that time, and watching people critique things is entertaining, so eh whatever.
Exactly.
 
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thebobmaster

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Just finished the run of Spectacular Spider-Man. That is the best Spidey cartoon series that I've seen, and proof that Greg Weisman just cannot get 3 seasons of a great show going. So much stuff that should have happened in season 3 that will never happen because lawyers and copyright. Thanks, Disney.
 
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Cuphead Season 2 - Love this season. Not much else to say. I laugh harder here compared to the first season. The first season had plenty of laughs. Expect more Ms. Chalice this season. My favorite episodes are with Bon Bon and Cala Maria.

 
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meiam

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This whole discussion reminds me of that one ANN writer who said Nisemonogatari's fanservice was actually anti-fanservice, because the director selected shots as if the female character was in control of the camera, the context being Nadeko trying to seduce Araragi. Aha, so it's technically not the male gaze but a female expression that retains agency.

Post hoc rationalization aside, it raises the question, how would we know the Nadeko wanted the camera to be in a specific location? She's not a real person with any agency. Also, couldn't you use the exact same argument with any overtly sexual character? I don't think a Bayonetta would choose an aerial shot over a 14mm closeup. But then how would we know any character isn't secretly a real freak in the sheets?

It also raises another question, why is fanservice okay just because there is literary merit behind it? The ANN writer said the toothbrush scene was symbolic for something important, but why would that make it okay for one show and not another? The scene obviously represents oral sex between Araragi and his sister. Even if the ANN writer was right, the scene does not justify its existence.

And that's why I don't take anime critics seriously, or any critic as a matter.
They do that once in awhile, like when prison school was out they wrote an entire article trying to justify it saying it totally wasn't about sex (despite it being 95% of the way to just being porn), complete with plenty of gif of the show, all showing of fan service sequence.


I think some people don't like the idea that they enjoy porn and will twist themselves in all kind of knots to try and claim that they're not watching it for the fan service.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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Went and saw Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero. Good show, classic Dragon Ball cheese early on. Great Uncle Piccolo is great, Pan is freaking adorable, and the Gammas have fun shenanigans. The new CGI style works really well all told. Red Ribbon is as silly/threatening as always, loved their escapades. Magenta and Hedo's confrontation was unexpectedly brutal. The fanservice callbacks were fun overall, even if they got laid on a bit thick. The last act fight was...okay, it's completely unnecessary. Pretty though. Dunno what the fandom name for them are, but I like Piccolo's Guardian form and Gohan's Feral Instinct

I dunno, I feel like that last fight kinda did the Rogue One thing where it's a rolling escalation of a fight. You know, more fighters show up late to the party, plans are formed, tried, and discarded, etc. Good fight, wish it had more narrative weight.

I think some people don't like the idea that they enjoy porn and will twist themselves in all kind of knots to try and claim that they're not watching it for the fan service.
Queue the seasonal articles about how the next high school titty show is totally wholesome this time, we swear.
 
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BrawlMan

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Went and saw Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero. Good show, classic Dragon Ball cheese early on. Great Uncle Piccolo is great, Pan is freaking adorable, and the Gammas have sun shenanigans. The new CGI style works really well all told. Red Ribbon is as silly/threatening as always, loved their escapades. Magenta and Hedo's confrontation was unexpectedly brutal. The fanservice callbacks were fun overall, even if they got laid on a bit thick. The last act fight was...okay, it's completely unnecessary. Pretty though. Dunno what the fandom name for them are, but I like Piccolo's Guardian form and Gohan's Feral Instinct

I dunno, I feel like that last fight kinda did the Rogue One thing where it's a rolling escalation of a fight. You know, more fighters show up late to the party, plans are formed, tried, and discarded, etc. Good fight, wish it had more narrative weight.


Queue the seasonal articles about how the next high school titty show is totally wholesome this time, we swear.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. This is the most I've been excited for anything Dragonball related in a long time. The story is Piccolo and Gohan focused. so those are already two big pluses in my book.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Also, watch Infinity Train. Season 1 is good, season 2 is really good, and season 3 is fucking crazy good.
Season 4 is also amazingly good.

Ever watched Made in Abyss? Fucking oof! The child nudity and, maybe even worse, child anguish/guro fetish is off the charts. Japan weirdly gets a free pass from this stuff not just inside of the country but outside as well.
Made in abyss is really good, but it can be a hard watch.

So torture porn in animated form. No thank you.
Its really not. Its certainly dark but really not torture porn, at least in season 1, no idea where it goes from there, but I've heard the manga gets really hard to read. If you are looking for something to get offended by then you can find it there, but if you are looking for something to be offended by then you can find that anywhere. Look at the idiots who were trying to say star trek was ruined since it was going woke, that has been the underlying theme of that whole series forever.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
I just checked; all seasons are available on HBO MAX in the US.
Its gone now. We were rewatching it and it vanished from the service yesterday.