The Needles: Crash Course in IP Enforcement Strategy

Lord_Jaroh

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Apr 24, 2007
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Matt_LRR said:
Andy Chalk said:
Matt_LRR said:
Andy Chalk said:
I'm interested that in your mention of Canada as a part of the 301 report, you didn't make any reference to Canda's own Bill C-32, introduced last month as the "Canadian Copyright Modernization act" to bring us in line with that report.
C-32 is a whole 'nother argument and while it's absolutely worth discussing, at least among Canadians, I didn't think it was relevant enough to this to bear getting sidetracked on.

But, since you mentioned it, anyone who doubts the influence that the US can bring to bear on other nations need only look at the Canadian situation. US pressure is largely responsible for the government's dogged determination to update the country's copyright laws and bring them more in line with the US's vision of the modern era. And those laws are heavily slanted in favour of rightsholders - your average user is pretty much left out in the cold.
Which is a crying shame, because the bill is written in such a way as to say:

You, as a user, are allowed to:

1. make backup copies.
2. time shift
3. format shift
4. etc.

Oh, unless the content distributor locked it.

They came *so* close to actually passing meaningful reforms, and then took it all away in favour of corporate interest.

-m
If I remember correctly, you are allowed to make *1* backup copy, and you are only allowed to format shift *once*. Ie. legally, you can put your music onto the computer, in mp3 form as a *backup*, but you can't then put it onto your ipod or mp3 player as a format shift. That would be *2* copies, which would be illegal.

Which of course is rendered null and void if the distributer locks the content, as it is illegal to break the lock...

Nothing like making consumer rights absolutely null and void...
 

whaleswiththumbs

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Feb 13, 2009
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Baldr said:
75% of US exports are IPs. Almost half of our economy is IP, of course the Government wants to protect it.
hehe, i got this very strong thought of a hit squad dropping in behind a pirate in some Canadian hotel and killing him. which oddly corresponds with my thoughts on this article

OT:
I got this really strong thought(see the correlation?) that the US is setting up some agency to find the small things wrong with something and blowing it up like the Hindenburg.

(that doesn't fully get out what i thought, but it works i guess.)
 

SilentHunter7

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Nov 21, 2007
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Tom Roberts said:
I'm wondering just how evenhandedly those rules on copyright infringement/IP theft will be applied.

China is certainly one of the main offenders but can you honestly see America going "I'm sorry, but until you sort out these legal issues to our satisfaction we won't be engaging in Trade with you."

When the obvious response by the Chinese is then "OK, since it doesn't really affect us anymore if your economy goes through the porcelain bowl, we'd like our usual trade deficit to be paid in the form of all those loans. Dongyi."

Basically I figure the old adage of 'At your feet or at your throat' will apply.
No offense to you, but every time I hear someone talk about China calling in it's debt, I want to punch a baby.

China (or anyone else, for that matter) cannot simply call in its debt. Treasury securities have to mature before they can be cashed in, and all the ones China has do not mature on the same day. If China wanted to sell all of its US-backed securities at once, they'd flood the market, and price would go through the floor, resulting in them taking a massive loss. In other words, them selling off all their US debt would hurt them more than it would ever hurt us.

EDIT:
Also, of all the U.S. debt, half of it is owned by the Fed. Another quarter is owned by American investors. So actually, 75% of our debt is owed to OURSELVES (try to wrap your head around that one). investors. And only a fifth of the Quarter that is foreign-owned is owned by China. And a third of the Chinese owned securities are owned by Chinese institutions and nationals, independent of the Chinese government.

So really, the Chinese government only owns about 3% of our national debt, which is just a drop in the bucket.
 

Freaky Spook

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Jun 30, 2010
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IP Enforcement, Copyright protection etc all are good provided they are part of a balanced system.

Consumers need protection as well and big media and software companies are just taking consumers for a ride.

Software licensing restrictions, end user support, End user license agreements, refunds are all designed to make it impossible for consumers to have any protections or rights without investing time and money into laywers to attempt to recover damages or refunds from rights holders.

If rights holders want to protect their property so much why do they charge exororante fee's to license the use of the device rather then permit the purchaser to own it.

Why is it media can charge people enormous amounts of dollars for electroninc contennt and not be required to unlock the content if they go out of business or upgrade their Rights management servers forcing people to buy the updated version.

Big Media combining with the software industry only stands to make things worse for people as there will be more restrictions placed upon IP and people will be forced to give up more of their privacy with the expectation that the company they are giving it to won't do anything wrong.

Already we have seen gross privacy issues with Sony and their rootkit scandle, Amazon pulling books off Kindle, Sony breaking Linux on the PS3, Microsoft shutting down MSN music etc etc, how long will people take this crap for before they start askign their governments why are they allowing these companies to screw eveyrone over and get even stronger IP laws.

In the end the stronger the IP laws are the more the consumer will be screwed over.
 

Pumpkin_Eater

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Mar 17, 2009
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Glad to see that Obama has his priorities straight despite all the unwarranted media attention to the greatest environmental disaster in history. Once he apologizes to BP we'll be in good shape again.
 

Danpascooch

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Apr 16, 2009
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dududf said:
danpascooch said:
dududf said:
danpascooch said:
I'm complaining about America trying to make the world fit it's own image. It bugs the living crap out of me.

Also didn't you see my edit? Unless you've had that quoted for around 2 hours, you should've saw it.
dududf said:
*Edit
Can people stop quoting me? It's getting seriously annoying I get that "New Message" icon every 5 minutes. Besides almost everything in reply has been said/spoken already.
I get it, you disagree that's nice (is my feeling to the people who quote with me). What you say won't change what a think. All it's doing is spamming my inbox. (this is not directed specifically at you, but people who've just generally quoted me.)
I saw the edit, but when I disagree with someone, I quote them, sorry, but that's forum practice, if it bothers you to the point where you wish you weren't quoted may I recommend simply deleting the quote alerts from this thread without reading them? Because if I want to make a point based on someones post, I'm going to quote them.

I don't really feel that this is a "make everyone like us" type thing, it's more of a "stop stealing from us" thing. It used to be quite simple, if you're physically in our borders, you'll follow our rules, but with the internet, you can commit a whole number of crimes in other countries without ever setting foot in them.

For example, let's say there was some tiny country where theft was perfectly legal, if I went there, set up a laptop, and somehow found a way to hack into electronic banking websites and steal billions and billions of dollars from thousands of Canadians, should Canada look the other way because I was in another country? I don't personally think Piracy is wrong, but I also believe that America should be allowed to protect itself from people committing crimes AGAINST THEM from other countries. It's one thing to commit a crime outside of the US that does not affect the US, but granted the US government considers piracy theft, they aren't going about their own business in their own country, they're stealing from us, and the US has every right to protect itself from theft.

You may be in another country, but the US shouldn't have to stand by while things are stolen from them, and they won't
My annoyance with the American-Assimilation-Thing (over dramatization...yummm) is not related to piracy.

I'm too tired to source every single thing I've seen, but it's a cummulative annoyance, over a wide variety of topics not just IP protection. I look at this and think "Oh joy another thing on the list, fuck off would yeah."

It's just getting annoying, especially as my government lacks any backbone when it comes to relations with the US, and does everything the US whims.
Well, I can't really appreciate your collective annoyance at multiple acts because.....I don't know what acts you're talking about specifically, and I don't share your perspective.

Since it would be a royal pain in the ass to ask you to list them and go over them with you, let's call it a day.

G'night
 

Andy Chalk

One Flag, One Fleet, One Cat
Nov 12, 2002
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Wow this is dumb as hell. No, piracy is not right. But the US has a lot of bigger problems that need to be taken care of first, prior to focusing on ANYTHING internet-based.

This makes it clear where our country's priorities lie. Adding more bodies to the for-profit prison system by defining obscure and popular activities as "crimes" rather than focusing on our real issues.

Again, I'm not defending anyone per ce, but do you really know ANYONE under the age of 30 that HASN'T downloaded a few songs/albums by this point?

Meanwhile, we're wrapped up in two useless wars, disasters, both natural and man-made, and an entirely corrupt financial system. And of course 80% of our politicians are eventually caught banging hookers or spending public money on drugs/parties.

*Sigh,* I guess it's about time to move out of this country. 23 years old and I've already lost all faith in this government.
 

Klepa

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Apr 17, 2009
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Matt_LRR said:
As in, "you have the right to time shift recorded media as broadcast on TV, unless the broadcaster includes a digital lock on the broadcast to prevent you recording it" or "you have the right to convert a CD to MP3 for playback in your computer or MP3 player, unless the CD includes encryption to prevent the content being ripped"
Sounds like something out of a school yard. "You can punch me in the stomach, and I promise I won't hit you back.... unless I want to".

It's all just too ridiculous. Artists get a laughably small amount of money from record sales, it's unfathomable. You're better off sending a one dollar bill in an envelope to your favorite artist, than buying their record. In most countries, the actual artist usually ends up receiving about 1% to 5% of the retail price of the record. The rest goes to the label, and the retailer.

Most music artists don't care if you download their albums, because they're not seeing the money. What they do care about, is having live performances.

So after all that, it's ridiculous for Obama to say "Our single greatest asset is the innovation and the ingenuity and creativity of the American people.", when these laws really only give money to the record labels, who can sue pirates for ludicrous amounts of money [http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/06/jammie-thomas-retrial-verdict.ars], mainly to intimidate people into buying their albums, instead of pirating them.
 

Asehujiko

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Feb 25, 2008
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ITT: america trying to shove it's own rules down the throat of the rest of the world and hardly anybody notices it because they're busy with discussing how file-sharing is somehow worse then any other problem in the world.
 

JohnSmith

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Jan 19, 2009
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HG131 said:
Tom Roberts said:
I'm wondering just how evenhandedly those rules on copyright infringement/IP theft will be applied.

China is certainly one of the main offenders but can you honestly see America going "I'm sorry, but until you sort out these legal issues to our satisfaction we won't be engaging in Trade with you."

When the obvious response by the Chinese is then "OK, since it doesn't really affect us anymore if your economy goes through the porcelain bowl, we'd like our usual trade deficit to be paid in the form of all those loans. Dongyi."

Basically I figure the old adage of 'At your feet or at your throat' will apply.
We'd respond "Ok, your payment is coming in the form of our 10s of thousands of nukes coming at your country. Good bye."
Really, and you wonder why people treat America as a nation populated by red neck stereotype douche bags.

America owes a lot of people a lot of money, most of its corporations can piss of to another country at the drop of a hat if it raises taxes and America imports a shit ton of stuff. So I can see why you end up with nukes being you only bargaining point because you have nothing else to bargin with.
 

Andy Chalk

One Flag, One Fleet, One Cat
Nov 12, 2002
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*Ahem*

[HEADING=1]Pirated product =/= lost sale.[/HEADING]

People pirate for many reasons, many do it becuase its an ultra conveniant way to listen to an album before you buy it. You can keep it on your MP3 player for a couple of days then buy it if you like it. I know losts of people who download but still buy CDs for the audio-quallity and for the simple fact they want to support artists they like.

The problem with "Copywrite enforcement" as it is put here is that it's VERY patchy. Here in the UK we have seen this in action, the main people this is set up to protect are the mega-publishers of music/film/games like time warner. All the system does is protect the copywrite of those who have the resources to bring enought cases forward to make an example, smaller people just end up being igored. It's enforcement with benefactors.

Furthermore how are they expecting to work this? The copywrite holders time and time again have been pretty much defeated in court for the very fact that it's hard to get a fair trail when a multiational coporation is sueing an individual for tens of thousends for downloading 3 songs. It's unworkable. It's borderline insane.
 

gl1koz3

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May 24, 2010
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Those dumb f***s. Never used computers?

Technically, this is not theft, but clone brands. As described in the handy guide. The problem is that the parameters of the item are absolutely the same. On this note, on can be held responsible for distributing without license. But to prove you did that, one must first define bit (as in memory unit) property management, which is achievable only through smallest unit or bit-signing. Product signing will not work or will work as flawed as it does right now. This would require absolutely different technology, perhaps quantum encryption and DNA as key? Since that would not allow tampering with data.

Current implementation and proposal should be directed at researching new computing technologies and not this overblown publicity stunt.
 

lijenstina

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Jun 18, 2008
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HG131 said:
First off, England never would. Second, nobody else has the balls to try. Why? It will spark World War III Nukes.
Nukes will go both ways. No cowboys riding into the sunset at the end of that movie.:)

EDIT: Seems to be a too drastic solution for the piracy problem.

Little Tommy downloaded a pirated Call Of Duty game! Send the nukes!

Stop the power trip.
 

Andy Chalk

One Flag, One Fleet, One Cat
Nov 12, 2002
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Kanodin0 said:
The U.S isn't required to trade with any state, why should it then give it's business to a state that won't cooperate with copyrights? You can talk about how that hurts the country in question, but that hypothetical country doesn't have some right to U.S. trade on any terms it likes.
No the U.S. isn't required to trade with any country but their are countries like say China who can bankrupt teh U.S. whenever they feel like it. The U.S. oil supply is also heavily imported as well as many other things. If your economy cant survive on its own its a very very bad idea to try and bully other countries, especially ones your economy relies on.


Its an interesting concept but aslong as the U.S. doesnt try to expand their influence outside their own borders im fine with it. Do whatever the hell you want in your own country but stay the hell away from mine.
 

Andy Chalk

One Flag, One Fleet, One Cat
Nov 12, 2002
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JohnSmith said:
HG131 said:
Tom Roberts said:
I'm wondering just how evenhandedly those rules on copyright infringement/IP theft will be applied.

China is certainly one of the main offenders but can you honestly see America going "I'm sorry, but until you sort out these legal issues to our satisfaction we won't be engaging in Trade with you."

When the obvious response by the Chinese is then "OK, since it doesn't really affect us anymore if your economy goes through the porcelain bowl, we'd like our usual trade deficit to be paid in the form of all those loans. Dongyi."

Basically I figure the old adage of 'At your feet or at your throat' will apply.
We'd respond "Ok, your payment is coming in the form of our 10s of thousands of nukes coming at your country. Good bye."
Really, and you wonder why people treat America as a nation populated by red neck stereotype douche bags.

America owes a lot of people a lot of money, most of its corporations can piss of to another country at the drop of a hat if it raises taxes and America imports a shit ton of stuff. So I can see why you end up with nukes being you only bargaining point because you have nothing else to bargin with.
Well, guess what the collateral on that money is. The US. I don't think many people want China taking over the US.
 

Andy Chalk

One Flag, One Fleet, One Cat
Nov 12, 2002
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lijenstina said:
HG131 said:
First off, England never would. Second, nobody else has the balls to try. Why? It will spark World War III Nukes.
Nukes will go both ways. No cowboys riding into the sunset at the end of that movie.:)

EDIT: Seems to be a too drastic solution for the piracy problem.

Little Tommy downloaded a pirated Call Of Duty game! Send the nukes!

Stop the power trip.
Not always, as China most likely isn't covered in anti aircraft/nuke devices.